Who Is Your Pick as Greatest Player of All Time?

[One Last Shot]

Lbj has had years where Curry or Durant could say they were legit the best player on earth… may not have been true but it was an argument- was there any argument for anyone else in MJs prime?

That's right LeBron, Steph and KD easily the Top 3 best players that time then after 2016 NBA Finals, Two of the top 3 players decided to join force and play together in 73-9 team with the DPOY, the 2nd best shooter in NBA history and one of the best 2-way player in the league and Finals MVP all in their prime just to beat LeBron.

[Jkam31]

I'm 51. I've seen them all, up close and personal.

My vote is LeBron.

First off, I don't believe there's any one right answer here. Obviously cases can be made for several players, notably MJ. I'm not going to smear MJ at all.

I just think Lebron is the best player I've ever seen. I don't think he has the best resume of course, but just in terms of pure skill in every facet, he's my guy.

The big thing for me, resume-wise, is I like to think what would have happened in Cleveland in 2003 if he had Jerry Krause at GM and Phil Jackson at coach (or whoever you consider to be their equivalents at the time). How many titles does Lebron win if he's surrounded with the proper teammates and coaching? I know it's all a thought exercise and ultimately irrelevant, but I think the answer is "a lot of titles". Maybe, maybe not, and we'll never know, but it's something I consider.

I was lucky enough to have the two best players of my lifetime in my team's division. Some would call that unlucky, but I saw Jordan live like 30 times. I've seen Lebron live less times because I had kids, but I've seen him live at least 10 or 12 times. They both absolutely wrecked the Bucks, but I consider it a privilege to have seen them both so often.

Lebron doesn’t wanna be coaches he’s canned all his coaches and tried to scapegoat Spolstra whose one of the best coaches for the last decade

[Jkam31]

What year is this peak lebron you speak of?

Lebron never had a peak that could remotely touch MJ 87-93

Tough question to answer because once it felt like he had complete mastery over the game he cruised a bit during the regular season, but let's just say 2016 - the series he had over the 73 win Warriors was GOAT-level stuff for sure. LeBron was unquestionably the best player in the league from 2012-2018, you can prefer 87-93 Jordan during that time period but "couldn't remotely touch" is unfair. But the argument I'm making for LeBron is that his longevity is SO much better than Jordan at this point that it should overcome any small differences in peak. Totally reasonable to disagree with that logic

Longevity without playing 82 or at least 80 is weak. Jordan played 82 9 times. Lebron 1. Jordan played D his whole career. Lebron has not played defense in 8 years. Longevity is cheap when you team up with Dwayne Wade to take the load off.
Longevity is a weak argument in an era with basically zero D, zero enforcers and centers, little physical play, very little contested rebounds,very little playing hurt, and in an era where they simply do not go hard in practice. I am not impressed with his longevity. If your only playing 55 games in a season then at least play defense.

This man came with fire

[Homer38]

You know what, like many others I didn't think there was anything else LeBron could realistically do to move the needle on the debate - but after he broke the scoring record I'm actually ready to call him the greatest. The argument for MJ has always been that if you needed a guy for one season/series/game/play, you'd pick peak MJ. But the gap between him and peak LeBron there is minuscule, and that completely discounts the longevity edge LeBron has, which at this point is MASSIVE. So with LeBron now trending towards GOAT longevity, capped with the scoring record, I just think that gives him the edge over Jordan

What year is this peak lebron you speak of?

Lebron never had a peak that could remotely touch MJ 87-93

LBJ won 4 MVP in 5 years at one point during his peak...Not close to MJ for his peak is just crazy

[MavsDirk41]

No other player can take some teams to finals like Lebron did. I have seen enough. My Goat easily.

Why did he have to team up with Wade and Bosh to win a title? If you remember Wade already had a championship and finals mvp before they teamed up. Also, who did Cleveland go through to get to the finals in 2007? The Celtics dominated the 80s. James didnt have to go through a dynasty like that to get to the finals in 2007.

[Homer38]

You know what, like many others I didn't think there was anything else LeBron could realistically do to move the needle on the debate - but after he broke the scoring record I'm actually ready to call him the greatest. The argument for MJ has always been that if you needed a guy for one season/series/game/play, you'd pick peak MJ. But the gap between him and peak LeBron there is minuscule, and that completely discounts the longevity edge LeBron has, which at this point is MASSIVE. So with LeBron now trending towards GOAT longevity, capped with the scoring record, I just think that gives him the edge over Jordan

What year is this peak lebron you speak of?

Lebron never had a peak that could remotely touch MJ 87-93

That's the thing about Lebron - he has no dynasty to speak of. In the current pool of players it's Steph that has the dynasty. Another thing is there is no question Jordan was the engine behind the Bulls two 3-peats. You could argue that Wade/Irving/AD in their primes are near equals to Lebron.

Also Jordan won top defensive accolades. In Lebron's earlier days he was quite active on defense. In the past 7-8 years no so much - I mean he does a chase down block every once in awhile for a SportsCenter clip - but that's about it.

I don't think any teams fear playing Lebron. Everybody fears playing Steph in a 7 game series.

Lebron was marketed by the NBA as the next superstar before he stepped on the court. He lived up to the expectations so the league continued to market him. Even today the league continues to promote him yet we all know he's not a top 10 player (IMO he's not even top 25 due to lack of defense). IMO LBJ is just a stat padder. He looks up at the scoreboard often to check his stats - he clearly goes for triple doubles.

Now for those old enough to have lived through it, Jordan set the league on fire. The media wasn't the one that hyped him up - he created the storm from day 1. And that was long before any titles. He became the guy everyone wanted to see at the arenas and of course those shoes. I think in my era, only Tiger Woods and Wayne Gretzky are anything comparble to Jordan in the sense the rise began very very early on and persisted and they raised their sports to new heights. Other "greats" were more over time (Brady Messi). MJ/Gretzky/Tiger were in your face day 1 and they made sure you didn't forget about them.

LeBron make the finals 9 times and won the title 4 times in span of 10 years at one point.....

[MacGill]

1a) MJ 1B) Russell

[MavsDirk41]

You know what, like many others I didn't think there was anything else LeBron could realistically do to move the needle on the debate - but after he broke the scoring record I'm actually ready to call him the greatest. The argument for MJ has always been that if you needed a guy for one season/series/game/play, you'd pick peak MJ. But the gap between him and peak LeBron there is minuscule, and that completely discounts the longevity edge LeBron has, which at this point is MASSIVE. So with LeBron now trending towards GOAT longevity, capped with the scoring record, I just think that gives him the edge over Jordan

What year is this peak lebron you speak of?

Lebron never had a peak that could remotely touch MJ 87-93

LBJ won 4 MVP in 5 years at one point during his peak...Not close to MJ for his peak is just crazy

I got Jordan as goat but i agree with you

[pwayknicks]

Lebron is the best talent, actual basketball player. Anyone who doesn’t think that, I have no words. Buttt when I think GREATEST I think who was the best among their peers compared to the others amongst their peers, because than modern medicine rules etc can no longer be in play. And to that, the answer to me is Jordan …


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VanWest82]

The big thing for me, resume-wise, is I like to think what would have happened in Cleveland in 2003 if he had Jerry Krause at GM and Phil Jackson at coach (or whoever you consider to be their equivalents at the time). How many titles does Lebron win if he's surrounded with the proper teammates and coaching? I know it's all a thought exercise and ultimately irrelevant, but I think the answer is "a lot of titles". Maybe, maybe not, and we'll never know, but it's something I consider.

I firmly believe that it wouldn't have mattered who Lebron had around him running his teams. He's repeatedly demonstrated a lack of trust in authority and a desire to undermine, influence, and control situations in ways that other greats didn't. He'd still be pushing for exceptions for his large entourage. He'd still be trying to play GM and form superteams. He'd still be subtweeting and making passive aggressive remarks to media to influence things in his direction or underscore his disappointment when teams didn't do his bidding. He'd still be franchise hopping.

This, to me, is the greatest difference between Lebron and MJ. Mike grew up in a two parent household with loving parents and sibling rivalries. Lebron had the opposite of that. You can't escape who you are or where you came from.

[xchange55]

What year is this peak lebron you speak of?

Lebron never had a peak that could remotely touch MJ 87-93

That's the thing about Lebron - he has no dynasty to speak of. In the current pool of players it's Steph that has the dynasty. Another thing is there is no question Jordan was the engine behind the Bulls two 3-peats. You could argue that Wade/Irving/AD in their primes are near equals to Lebron.

Also Jordan won top defensive accolades. In Lebron's earlier days he was quite active on defense. In the past 7-8 years no so much - I mean he does a chase down block every once in awhile for a SportsCenter clip - but that's about it.

I don't think any teams fear playing Lebron. Everybody fears playing Steph in a 7 game series.

Lebron was marketed by the NBA as the next superstar before he stepped on the court. He lived up to the expectations so the league continued to market him. Even today the league continues to promote him yet we all know he's not a top 10 player (IMO he's not even top 25 due to lack of defense). IMO LBJ is just a stat padder. He looks up at the scoreboard often to check his stats - he clearly goes for triple doubles.

Now for those old enough to have lived through it, Jordan set the league on fire. The media wasn't the one that hyped him up - he created the storm from day 1. And that was long before any titles. He became the guy everyone wanted to see at the arenas and of course those shoes. I think in my era, only Tiger Woods and Wayne Gretzky are anything comparble to Jordan in the sense the rise began very very early on and persisted and they raised their sports to new heights. Other "greats" were more over time (Brady Messi). MJ/Gretzky/Tiger were in your face day 1 and they made sure you didn't forget about them.

LeBron make the finals 9 times and won the title 4 times in span of 10 years at one point.....

All by intentionally linking with other superstars to give his team one of the highest odds to make the Finals. Jordan beat all the other HOF'ers of his generation. LBJ tried to team up with as many as he could. Again he has no dynasty. Steph did it before Durant, did it with Durant, and then did it gain without Durant. He's the main guy - not the supporting cast. Also Steph won more Finals then he lost. So despite trying to load his team Lebron missed the chip more then he got it... honestly it's just sad.

What LBJ did would be if Jordan went to team up with Bird or Magic, then with Hakeem and then with Barkley.

[Homer38]

That's the thing about Lebron - he has no dynasty to speak of. In the current pool of players it's Steph that has the dynasty. Another thing is there is no question Jordan was the engine behind the Bulls two 3-peats. You could argue that Wade/Irving/AD in their primes are near equals to Lebron.

Also Jordan won top defensive accolades. In Lebron's earlier days he was quite active on defense. In the past 7-8 years no so much - I mean he does a chase down block every once in awhile for a SportsCenter clip - but that's about it.

I don't think any teams fear playing Lebron. Everybody fears playing Steph in a 7 game series.

Lebron was marketed by the NBA as the next superstar before he stepped on the court. He lived up to the expectations so the league continued to market him. Even today the league continues to promote him yet we all know he's not a top 10 player (IMO he's not even top 25 due to lack of defense). IMO LBJ is just a stat padder. He looks up at the scoreboard often to check his stats - he clearly goes for triple doubles.

Now for those old enough to have lived through it, Jordan set the league on fire. The media wasn't the one that hyped him up - he created the storm from day 1. And that was long before any titles. He became the guy everyone wanted to see at the arenas and of course those shoes. I think in my era, only Tiger Woods and Wayne Gretzky are anything comparble to Jordan in the sense the rise began very very early on and persisted and they raised their sports to new heights. Other "greats" were more over time (Brady Messi). MJ/Gretzky/Tiger were in your face day 1 and they made sure you didn't forget about them.

LeBron make the finals 9 times and won the title 4 times in span of 10 years at one point.....

All by intentionally linking with other superstars to give his team one of the highest odds to make the Finals. Jordan beat all the other HOF'ers of his generation. LBJ tried to team up with as many as he could. Again he has no dynasty. Steph did it before Durant, did it with Durant, and then did it gain without Durant. He's the main guy - not the supporting cast. Also Steph won more Finals then he lost. So despite trying to load his team Lebron missed the chip more then he got it... honestly it's just sad.

What LBJ did would be if Jordan went to team up with Bird or Magic, then with Hakeem and then with Barkley.

I hope you don't compare Wade(who was not the same player since the 2013 playoffs) and Bosh to Hakeem,Bird or Magic Wade is a top 30 players ever but not top 10 like Magic or Bird,etc...Bosh make the all-nba team only twice in Toronto I think

The teams of Jordan were so good that the Bulls were able to win 55 games in 1994 and they were close to make the ECF(who would been likely a win by the Bulls vs pacers) and make the finals after that....And also he never face a team like the warriors.LBJ face this team fourth years in a row(67 wins in 2015 and the best 2 teammates of LBJ were out,73 wins in 2016 and LBJ beat them with a all-time great finals,offense and defense and after that,the warriors adds a top 3-5 players in the league)....The pistons were not the same team in 1991 and after and Magic and Bird were retired few years later.....If lakers,pistons or celtics would been as good as they were in 1980s(just one of the 3)I am sure Jordan would not win 6 rings even if his teams were so loaded that this team were able to win 55 games.It would been 3 or 4 max titles...I mean the best player in the league after Jordan in the 1996 to 1998 period were a old Karl Malone....

[buckboy]

The big thing for me, resume-wise, is I like to think what would have happened in Cleveland in 2003 if he had Jerry Krause at GM and Phil Jackson at coach (or whoever you consider to be their equivalents at the time). How many titles does Lebron win if he's surrounded with the proper teammates and coaching? I know it's all a thought exercise and ultimately irrelevant, but I think the answer is "a lot of titles". Maybe, maybe not, and we'll never know, but it's something I consider.

I firmly believe that it wouldn't have mattered who Lebron had around him running his teams. He's repeatedly demonstrated a lack of trust in authority and a desire to undermine, influence, and control situations in ways that other greats didn't. He'd still be pushing for exceptions for his large entourage. He'd still be trying to play GM and form superteams. He'd still be subtweeting and making passive aggressive remarks to media to influence things in his direction or underscore his disappointment when teams didn't do his bidding. He'd still be franchise hopping.

This, to me, is the greatest difference between Lebron and MJ. Mike grew up in a two parent household with loving parents and sibling rivalries. Lebron had the opposite of that. You can't escape who you are or where you came from.

I've considered all of that when discussing this as it's definitely played out that way.

But I always wondered if things would have been different if he had had a trustworthy team of front office and coach from the get-go. Like if he had somehow been drafted by San Antonio.

Doesn't really matter for the sake of this discussion, but a big part of MJ's success was the fact that he had a very well-constructed team and coach.

[Drygon]

LeBron make the finals 9 times and won the title 4 times in span of 10 years at one point.....

All by intentionally linking with other superstars to give his team one of the highest odds to make the Finals. Jordan beat all the other HOF'ers of his generation. LBJ tried to team up with as many as he could. Again he has no dynasty. Steph did it before Durant, did it with Durant, and then did it gain without Durant. He's the main guy - not the supporting cast. Also Steph won more Finals then he lost. So despite trying to load his team Lebron missed the chip more then he got it... honestly it's just sad.

What LBJ did would be if Jordan went to team up with Bird or Magic, then with Hakeem and then with Barkley.

I hope you don't compare Wade(who was not the same player since the 2013 playoffs) and Bosh to Hakeem,Bird or Magic Wade is a top 30 players ever but not top 10 like Magic or Bird,etc...Bosh make the all-nba team only twice in Toronto I think

The teams of Jordan were so good that the Bulls were able to win 55 games in 1994 and they were close to make the ECF(who would been likely a win by the Bulls vs pacers) and make the finals after that....And also he never face a team like the warriors.LBJ face this team fourth years in a row(67 wins in 2015 and the best 2 teammates of LBJ were out,73 wins in 2016 and LBJ beat them with a all-time great finals,offense and defense and after that,the warriors adds a top 3-5 players in the league)....The pistons were not the same team in 1991 and after and Magic and Bird were retired few years later.....If lakers,pistons or celtics would been as good as they were in 1980s(just one of the 3)I am sure Jordan would not win 6 rings even if his teams were so loaded that this team were able to win 55 games.It would been 3 or 4 max titles...I mean the best player in the league after Jordan in the 1996 to 1998 period were a old Karl Malone....

1) Michael Jordan + Chicago Bulls were more dominant than GSW. The latter couldn't even complete a 3-peat even adding KD whereas MJ and his teammates made a double 3-peat.

3) The 94 Bulls without MJ lost in the 2nd round. I like how you ignore they were barely .500 team in 95-96 season and would most certainly missed out the playoffs if a rusty MJ didn't return.

[Drygon]

What year is this peak lebron you speak of?

Lebron never had a peak that could remotely touch MJ 87-93

That's the thing about Lebron - he has no dynasty to speak of. In the current pool of players it's Steph that has the dynasty. Another thing is there is no question Jordan was the engine behind the Bulls two 3-peats. You could argue that Wade/Irving/AD in their primes are near equals to Lebron.

Also Jordan won top defensive accolades. In Lebron's earlier days he was quite active on defense. In the past 7-8 years no so much - I mean he does a chase down block every once in awhile for a SportsCenter clip - but that's about it.

I don't think any teams fear playing Lebron. Everybody fears playing Steph in a 7 game series.

Lebron was marketed by the NBA as the next superstar before he stepped on the court. He lived up to the expectations so the league continued to market him. Even today the league continues to promote him yet we all know he's not a top 10 player (IMO he's not even top 25 due to lack of defense). IMO LBJ is just a stat padder. He looks up at the scoreboard often to check his stats - he clearly goes for triple doubles.

Now for those old enough to have lived through it, Jordan set the league on fire. The media wasn't the one that hyped him up - he created the storm from day 1. And that was long before any titles. He became the guy everyone wanted to see at the arenas and of course those shoes. I think in my era, only Tiger Woods and Wayne Gretzky are anything comparble to Jordan in the sense the rise began very very early on and persisted and they raised their sports to new heights. Other "greats" were more over time (Brady Messi). MJ/Gretzky/Tiger were in your face day 1 and they made sure you didn't forget about them.

LeBron make the finals 9 times and won the title 4 times in span of 10 years at one point.....

The East were absolutely terrible during 2010s. KD would certainly have done is as well if he had loaded rosters like Miami Heat & Cavs.

[Homer38]

That's the thing about Lebron - he has no dynasty to speak of. In the current pool of players it's Steph that has the dynasty. Another thing is there is no question Jordan was the engine behind the Bulls two 3-peats. You could argue that Wade/Irving/AD in their primes are near equals to Lebron.

Also Jordan won top defensive accolades. In Lebron's earlier days he was quite active on defense. In the past 7-8 years no so much - I mean he does a chase down block every once in awhile for a SportsCenter clip - but that's about it.

I don't think any teams fear playing Lebron. Everybody fears playing Steph in a 7 game series.

Lebron was marketed by the NBA as the next superstar before he stepped on the court. He lived up to the expectations so the league continued to market him. Even today the league continues to promote him yet we all know he's not a top 10 player (IMO he's not even top 25 due to lack of defense). IMO LBJ is just a stat padder. He looks up at the scoreboard often to check his stats - he clearly goes for triple doubles.

Now for those old enough to have lived through it, Jordan set the league on fire. The media wasn't the one that hyped him up - he created the storm from day 1. And that was long before any titles. He became the guy everyone wanted to see at the arenas and of course those shoes. I think in my era, only Tiger Woods and Wayne Gretzky are anything comparble to Jordan in the sense the rise began very very early on and persisted and they raised their sports to new heights. Other "greats" were more over time (Brady Messi). MJ/Gretzky/Tiger were in your face day 1 and they made sure you didn't forget about them.

LeBron make the finals 9 times and won the title 4 times in span of 10 years at one point.....

The East were absolutely terrible during 2010s. KD would certainly have done is as well if he had loaded rosters like Miami Heat & Cavs.

KD won one playoff serie with a loaded team in the east in 3 years.....

[Homer38]

All by intentionally linking with other superstars to give his team one of the highest odds to make the Finals. Jordan beat all the other HOF'ers of his generation. LBJ tried to team up with as many as he could. Again he has no dynasty. Steph did it before Durant, did it with Durant, and then did it gain without Durant. He's the main guy - not the supporting cast. Also Steph won more Finals then he lost. So despite trying to load his team Lebron missed the chip more then he got it... honestly it's just sad.

What LBJ did would be if Jordan went to team up with Bird or Magic, then with Hakeem and then with Barkley.

I hope you don't compare Wade(who was not the same player since the 2013 playoffs) and Bosh to Hakeem,Bird or Magic Wade is a top 30 players ever but not top 10 like Magic or Bird,etc...Bosh make the all-nba team only twice in Toronto I think

The teams of Jordan were so good that the Bulls were able to win 55 games in 1994 and they were close to make the ECF(who would been likely a win by the Bulls vs pacers) and make the finals after that....And also he never face a team like the warriors.LBJ face this team fourth years in a row(67 wins in 2015 and the best 2 teammates of LBJ were out,73 wins in 2016 and LBJ beat them with a all-time great finals,offense and defense and after that,the warriors adds a top 3-5 players in the league)....The pistons were not the same team in 1991 and after and Magic and Bird were retired few years later.....If lakers,pistons or celtics would been as good as they were in 1980s(just one of the 3)I am sure Jordan would not win 6 rings even if his teams were so loaded that this team were able to win 55 games.It would been 3 or 4 max titles...I mean the best player in the league after Jordan in the 1996 to 1998 period were a old Karl Malone....

1) Michael Jordan + Chicago Bulls were more dominant than GSW. The latter couldn't even complete a 3-peat even adding KD whereas MJ and his teammates made a double 3-peat.

3) The 94 Bulls without MJ lost in the 2nd round. I like how you ignore they were barely .500 team in 95-96 season and would most certainly missed out the playoffs if a rusty MJ didn't return.

They had no interior defense in 1995 after losing Grant to Orlando.....Their weak interior defense were a huge reason why they don't win in the second round in 1995...They add Rodman in 1996 and they were the best interior defense and best rebounding team in the league

[MavsDirk41]

LeBron make the finals 9 times and won the title 4 times in span of 10 years at one point.....

All by intentionally linking with other superstars to give his team one of the highest odds to make the Finals. Jordan beat all the other HOF'ers of his generation. LBJ tried to team up with as many as he could. Again he has no dynasty. Steph did it before Durant, did it with Durant, and then did it gain without Durant. He's the main guy - not the supporting cast. Also Steph won more Finals then he lost. So despite trying to load his team Lebron missed the chip more then he got it... honestly it's just sad.

What LBJ did would be if Jordan went to team up with Bird or Magic, then with Hakeem and then with Barkley.

I hope you don't compare Wade(who was not the same player since the 2013 playoffs) and Bosh to Hakeem,Bird or Magic Wade is a top 30 players ever but not top 10 like Magic or Bird,etc...Bosh make the all-nba team only twice in Toronto I think

The teams of Jordan were so good that the Bulls were able to win 55 games in 1994 and they were close to make the ECF(who would been likely a win by the Bulls vs pacers) and make the finals after that....And also he never face a team like the warriors.LBJ face this team fourth years in a row(67 wins in 2015 and the best 2 teammates of LBJ were out,73 wins in 2016 and LBJ beat them with a all-time great finals,offense and defense and after that,the warriors adds a top 3-5 players in the league)....The pistons were not the same team in 1991 and after and Magic and Bird were retired few years later.....If lakers,pistons or celtics would been as good as they were in 1980s(just one of the 3)I am sure Jordan would not win 6 rings even if his teams were so loaded that this team were able to win 55 games.It would been 3 or 4 max titles...I mean the best player in the league after Jordan in the 1996 to 1998 period were a old Karl Malone....

Lets look at that Miami Heat team in the bubble finals. Dragic was injured in game 1. He was their 3rd best player that year. Bam missed two games because of injury. He was their 2nd best player that year. In two of the games Miami played Butler, Jae Crowder, Meyers Leonard, Duncan Robinson, Kendrick Nunn, Kelly Olynck, and rookier Tyler Herro. That is the worst finals team i think i have ever seen. Ray Allen saved James and the Heat in 2013 with a clutch 3. Irving was sensational in the 2016 finals. Jordan never played with a teammate as good as Wade. Wade won a championship as the best player on his team and was probably the best player in the nba that year. Jordan never played with a big as dominate as Davis.

[Beethoven]

Personally for me, I have three greatest players of all time: lebron Kobe and Jordan

[canada_dry]

Wilt having as many votes as kareem is VERY surprising

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app