Fred VanVleet Specifically Calls Out Referee Ben Taylor and NBA Reffing

[liquidswords]

FVV should get one of the heftiest fines we've ever seen for bad mouthing officials. He took it way beyond "we didn't get the calls tonight"...having said that, he's not wrong. Lots of refs have biases against individual players and even some teams i feel like

[Trey24]

I have been watching the NBA for 25 years, and I just recently was in a state where sports betting is legal so I dabbled in it while there. (I had never bet on the NBA before then and doubted people in the past that told me it was rigged, you would always hear people say "don't bet on the NBA").

I can say without a doubt that at least 70% of NBA games are manipulated for spread, over/under, and even live moneyline purposes.

I am not necessarily saying that 70% of the overall outcomes win/loss are manipulated, but I learned to stay away from spread/over under QUICK. The referees are the ones controlling these games.

Its a shame to find out for real that after 25 years the game you grew up watching and loving is diluted with bull like referee manipulation.

Good on FVV, I can't imagine just how many of these refs are still betting, or if it is just orders that they are given to please Vegas.

[Johnny Bball]

Any chance the NBA fines AND suspends him for this? I mean I've never seen a player go this hard when criticizing the refs.

I'm guessing both, but I don't know that the CBA allows suspension for comments made.

I thought Paul calls out Foster repeatedly without getting suspended

Excessive swearing though. Not sure if Paul called him a dick.

[Johnny Bball]

I agree it is annoying for the most part, but I mean Fred has 8 techs this year and 5(!!) Are from Ben Taylor.

LOL what?!?
If that isn't a case of bias, I don't know what is.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/11mmh5w/fact_checked_fvv_on_ben_taylor/

Ben Taylor even dished out 2x to Fred in one game

Now Fred just walking off with no emotion makes all the sense in the world, like he just expects it.

[ATLTimekeeper]

This was the 2nd straight game where the Raptors came out with an early lead and the refs immediately started calling fouls only on the Raptors to change the momentum. This kind of game gardening makes for good entertainment but is frustrating for players. They deserve the right to complain. Refs need to chill out. Either call it straight or accept that how you influence games is going to lead to emotional outbursts. These guys do not lose jobs when they fail. Players and coaches do.

[Johnny Bball]

This is embarrassing- crying to media about it - file a complaint.

I think it’s embarrassing how much players complain to refs. We tell kids in rec leagues to play the game and not talk to refs. I don’t know when we normalized players complaining on every call or constantly talking with refs. It’s so disrespectful to the extremely tough job they have and it takes away so much from the watchability of the game.

I’d go full reverse and say from now on any talking to a ref is an automatic technical. Any demonstration toward a ref is a technical. And let the players union decide on referees and how they are measured, rated, etc. Let the players be the ones deciding who the refs are but take away the ability of in game complaining.

File a complaint? You can't be serious. The nba does absolutely nothing when it comes to the refs making blatant mistakes. There is zero accountability in that department and something has to change. These guys are going out of there way to make themselves a part of the game while also missing some of the most blatant fouls that you will ever see.

He should raise his hand to signify that he wants to tell on someone.

[VanWest82]

Fred's a real one but he might be the first player to get suspended for criticizing the refs. He went in deep there.

Edit: I should also add that between Fred and Nurse (and Lowry before), Raptors spend way too much time bitching and moaning to refs. They're nowhere near Lebron or Luka's level, but it gets pretty bad sometimes. These guys aren't "stars" either.

[Duffman100]

NBA has a bit of a problem right now. (and I don't believe it's rigged, at least not at a wide scale).

There are legitimacy questions about referring.
There are legitimacy questions about the ridiculously high scoring and records being broken.

[BeatDaCavs420]

I think officiating criticism is getting out of hand, players allow themselves to behave in ways that undermine officials authority, Luka and Draymond have assigned themselves as evaluators of officiating and complain about every call, and it's seeping into the rest of the league, Kidd and Kerr aren't able to contain their players, Silver should put his foot down and make an example of repeat offenders.
Human error will always take part, the game is hard to officiate when we keep getting mismatches, 6' Lillard bumping into bigs, 6'8" thick Luka posting up small guards, even on replays it's not clear who committed the foul.
We have mega stars like KD who made a HoF career, faced a lot of physicality, without constant run ins with officials, there are other ways to go about your gripes with how you're officiated, maybe the league should set up a backdoor channel for coaching staffs to voice their criticism, but not in game and in post game conferences.

Lmao are you a ref?

[MoMoneyMoProbs]

NBA has a bit of a problem right now. (and I don't believe it's rigged, at least not at a wide scale).

There are legitimacy questions about referring.
There are legitimacy questions about the ridiculously high scoring and records being broken.

Everyone and their mom knows about the suspect refereeing in the league. It's just accepted. When there is a concept such as "superstar calls" that is readily acknowledged by media as well, you know there is already an inherent bias.

With regards to the scoring - I think that may be more attributable to the 3pt shot being widely adopted and the reduction of the 2nd chance shot clock to 14 I believe.

[Lunartic]

I have been watching the NBA for 25 years, and I just recently was in a state where sports betting is legal so I dabbled in it while there. (I had never bet on the NBA before then and doubted people in the past that told me it was rigged, you would always hear people say "don't bet on the NBA").

I can say without a doubt that at least 70% of NBA games are manipulated for spread, over/under, and even live moneyline purposes.

I am not necessarily saying that 70% of the overall outcomes win/loss are manipulated, but I learned to stay away from spread/over under QUICK. The referees are the ones controlling these games.

Its a shame to find out for real that after 25 years the game you grew up watching and loving is diluted with bull like referee manipulation.

Good on FVV, I can't imagine just how many of these refs are still betting, or if it is just orders that they are given to please Vegas.

Yep, anyone that does sports betting quickly notices that NBA spreads aren't worth betting on, the refs clearly make their money by controlling the spread via quick fouls on scorers/defenders/technical fouls.

[jlokine]

Any chance the NBA fines AND suspends him for this? I mean I've never seen a player go this hard when criticizing the refs.

I'm guessing both, but I don't know that the CBA allows suspension for comments made.

I thought Paul calls out Foster repeatedly without getting suspended

Paul as in Chris Paul? was he the president of the PA at the time?

[AbeVigodaLive]

We all have gripes with NBA officials. It's a tough gig... and sometimes... they're bad at it.

But in a league that's tilted quite a bit toward certain players and encourages their entitlement... I find players incessantly whining about EVERY call pretty tedious, too. I imagine I'm not alone.

Good calls, bad calls, ANY call... certain players (we know who they are) are going to complain. And this is part of the overall officiating dilemma.

Inconsistent officiating + consistent complaining about calls = frustration for fans

[ItsDanger]

It'd be interesting to get someone's opinion that's very close to the action that's somewhat neutral. Like someone who works at the arena on sidelines. They'd have some good insight into these issues.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I have been watching the NBA for 25 years, and I just recently was in a state where sports betting is legal so I dabbled in it while there. (I had never bet on the NBA before then and doubted people in the past that told me it was rigged, you would always hear people say "don't bet on the NBA").

I can say without a doubt that at least 70% of NBA games are manipulated for spread, over/under, and even live moneyline purposes.

I am not necessarily saying that 70% of the overall outcomes win/loss are manipulated, but I learned to stay away from spread/over under QUICK. The referees are the ones controlling these games.

Its a shame to find out for real that after 25 years the game you grew up watching and loving is diluted with bull like referee manipulation.

Good on FVV, I can't imagine just how many of these refs are still betting, or if it is just orders that they are given to please Vegas.

Yep, anyone that does sports betting quickly notices that NBA spreads aren't worth betting on, the refs clearly make their money by controlling the spread via quick fouls on scorers/defenders/technical fouls.

If refs were controlling the spreads, you'd think you might use that information to your advantage as a sports better. Also I don't think "anyone who does sports betting quickly" notices this, but maybe i'm wrong.

[nikster]

This is embarrassing- crying to media about it - file a complaint.

I think it’s embarrassing how much players complain to refs. We tell kids in rec leagues to play the game and not talk to refs. I don’t know when we normalized players complaining on every call or constantly talking with refs. It’s so disrespectful to the extremely tough job they have and it takes away so much from the watchability of the game.

I’d go full reverse and say from now on any talking to a ref is an automatic technical. Any demonstration toward a ref is a technical. And let the players union decide on referees and how they are measured, rated, etc. Let the players be the ones deciding who the refs are but take away the ability of in game complaining.

File a complaint? You can't be serious. The nba does absolutely nothing when it comes to the refs making blatant mistakes. There is zero accountability in that department and something has to change. These guys are going out of there way to make themselves a part of the game while also missing some of the most blatant fouls that you will ever see.

Did you just choose to ignore the rest of what I said? There’s no quick solution this year and players criticizing refs more and more isn’t going to do anything besides create divisiveness. As I said, turn over reffing to the players union and let the players themselves decide what is or isn’t acceptable. Likely a lot of players that stay quiet and play the game the right way really dislike what some of the players like Luka and Dray get away with in terms of constant complaining. If I was a player i’d definitely vote for 1) automatic techs for talking to refs during a game and 2) a 3rd party review system of refs that reports to the players union. Players union decides who refs, what they get paid, etc etc. In a case like this I think FVV taking his complaints to Jaylen Brown and CP3 or whoever manages the players union stuff is a lot more amenable / appropriate way under my comments above to have impact

Turning over the reffing to players union will likely require changes to the CBA and why would the refs union not push back on those changes? Any change likely doesn't have a chance until the next CBA is in discussion. That could be like a decade, Fred could be out of the league by then.

[The Rebel]

FVV should get one of the heftiest fines we've ever seen for bad mouthing officials. He took it way beyond "we didn't get the calls tonight"...having said that, he's not wrong. Lots of refs have biases against individual players and even some teams i feel like

Judging by what they did to Iverson after he called out Javie things are going to be ugly for the rest of the season. Refs were letting guys do whatever they wanted to him and absolutely refused to call anything. Yet if Iverson did anything wrong they were calling it.

I bet the under for Jokic when Marc Davis, Scott foster, or several of the black refs are reffing a Nuggets game. I am up 1200% in the last two months on Nuggets games.

[Tha Cynic]

He just painted a target on his back. Not smart.

The Raptors already get the short end of the stick since the refs hate Nurse, so meh, not really losing out on much. They have never gotten the respect successful American teams have over the years. It's not going to change much lol.

[CraftylikeaFox]

I think refs need an overhaul in general, but players deserve some blame for the state of officiating too. Every player flops now and looks to sell contact on most plays. Like I haven't heard a player take a contested layup and not yell 'AND 11111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!' in over 10 years. Also every team has a bunch of players that chirp at the refs all game long complaining about calls. Whether justified or not, at some point you just need to shut up and play.

If I was a ref I'd say, yeah we're blowing calls, but we are also trying to catch actual fouls while dealing with players embellishing contact constantly, and they also yell in our ears every time they disagree with us. Do something about them too.

[Tha Cynic]

Watch on YouTube

Vince Carter's take.

The fact that you have to play a game with the refs tells you how corrupt the league is lol.

So, not only do the players have to prepare for the opposing team but also the refs. With gambling involved there needs to be a centralized area where these guys are evaluated, but how do you do this without corruption?