Cade Cunningham - Any Concerns?

[JustLucky]

It's a bit bogus because apparently the Pistons are trying to juice Killian Hayes stats to trade him at the deadline, otherwise there is no excuse to be playing him over Ivey as Hayes is virtually unplayable. Ivey may even be better than Cade. There's some potential to be a solid pro but I've not seen anything even all-starish yet, much less generational.

The trouble is that bad organizations rot from the head first and the stink gets so deep that it can spoil entire careers. Cade will get extended, no doubt, just because there's no choice but to go all in. He did show some slight improvement over his rookie year so there's a chance he will eventually be a decent player--in some other organization.

no ones going to trade for hayes lol. pistons shoulda cut in after his rookie season. guy wont even be backup caliberin 3 years

[Mr Peanut]

I think it's quite hard to judge him for several reasons at the moment.

The first being that he's still essentially a sophomore as he lost pretty much his whole second season to injury and he's still finding his feet after such a long time off the court with said injury.

The second are the players he is currently surrounded with, particularly in light of injuries to our main floor spacers (Bojan, Monte Morris, Isaiah Livers). As a result, opposing defenses are collapsing on Cade and absolutely hounding him which has clearly affected his play.

The positives are that he is averaging 23 PPG on fair percentages (his 3PT% had been over 40% on good volume up until the last couple of games where he shot poorly) and dishing out 7 APG. Watching the games his defense is passable although I appreciate the advanced stats don't necessarily back that up.

I will continue to watch his development with interest but won't make any sweeping judgements yet.

[dk1115]

I think he’s going to end up a good starter/borderline all star

[QingJames]

There is no offensive talent around him. Somehow the Pistons surrounded him with a bunch of non shooters. The game should be easier for him once there is talent so I'll cut him some slack. He's still not a #1 guy regardless but could be a really good #2

But you can look at his fellow 2021 draft pick in Barnes who has a similar issue of no shooting, and yet he manages to still be an efficient scorer without turning over the ball 6 times a game. Hell, Franz also plays on a team with bad shooting and still manages to score efficiently. If people are ready to admit Cade never should have gone number 1 then I’ll buy this argument. But if people still maintain he should have been the #1 pick then there’s no excuse for this terrible efficiency.

[Mr Peanut]

There is no offensive talent around him. Somehow the Pistons surrounded him with a bunch of non shooters. The game should be easier for him once there is talent so I'll cut him some slack. He's still not a #1 guy regardless but could be a really good #2

But you can look at his fellow 2021 draft pick in Barnes who has a similar issue of no shooting, and yet he manages to still be an efficient scorer without turning over the ball 6 times a game. Hell, Franz also plays on a team with bad shooting and still manages to score efficiently. If people are ready to admit Cade never should have gone number 1 then I’ll buy this argument. But if people still maintain he should have been the #1 pick then there’s no excuse for this terrible efficiency.

The situations aren't really comparable. Cade is very clearly the lead ballhander for the Pistons with a usage of 33.4%, while Scottie's is 26.1%. When you consider the average league usage rate is somewhere around 20% it means Cade is statistically beyond a standard deviation from Scottie and it's more understandable why he may be turning the ball over 5.5 times per game compared to Scottie's 3.3. And then you take into account that Scottie has guys like Siakam, Anunoby and even Schroeder starting with him that draws the opposing team's defensive attention, and then look at the guys that Cade shares the floor with and you can understand why he may not have as many open shots to boost his shooting efficiency.

Also, Cade has a better FG% and TS% than Franz this season in case you weren't aware of that (which I presume you weren't as you've called Franz an efficient scorer and Cade a terribly efficient scorer in the same paragraph).

[QingJames]

There is no offensive talent around him. Somehow the Pistons surrounded him with a bunch of non shooters. The game should be easier for him once there is talent so I'll cut him some slack. He's still not a #1 guy regardless but could be a really good #2

But you can look at his fellow 2021 draft pick in Barnes who has a similar issue of no shooting, and yet he manages to still be an efficient scorer without turning over the ball 6 times a game. Hell, Franz also plays on a team with bad shooting and still manages to score efficiently. If people are ready to admit Cade never should have gone number 1 then I’ll buy this argument. But if people still maintain he should have been the #1 pick then there’s no excuse for this terrible efficiency.

The situations aren't really comparable. Cade is very clearly the lead ballhander for the Pistons with a usage of 33.4%, while Scottie's is 26.1%. When you consider the average league usage rate is somewhere around 20% it means Cade is statistically beyond a standard deviation from Scottie and it's more understandable why he may be turning the ball over 5.5 times per game compared to Scottie's 3.3. And then you take into account that Scottie has guys like Siakam, Anunoby and even Schroeder starting with him that draws the opposing team's defensive attention, and then look at the guys that Cade shares the floor with and you can understand why he may not have as many open shots to boost his shooting efficiency.

Also, Cade has a better FG% and TS% than Franz this season in case you weren't aware of that (which I presume you weren't as you've called Franz an efficient scorer and Cade a terribly efficient scorer in the same paragraph).

With Franz, I was speaking more with regard to their careers to date. I don't believe Franz is as bad of a shooter as he's showing this season. I do believe Cade is as bad of a scorer as he's shown this season because he's been similarly bad in the last two seasons. Just like I'm not about to say Scottie is a better 3-point shooter than Cade because of this small sample size.

With regards to the usage, it's even worse if Cade is getting more usage and putting up fewer points on worse shooting. All that means is that he actually should have less of a role on offense, rather than the heliocentric system his fans have been clamouring to build around him. I don't deny that his teammates are bad, but the debate was shooting. On the Raptors, only Anunoby is a reliable shooter in the starting lineup with Scottie. Pascal has been horrible to start the year (and they're using him badly) and Schroeder is most effective at creating for himself, not as a spot-up release valve guy.

I'll grant you that the turnovers will go down if Cade gets a partner to whom he can relinquish some usage. I don't agree that he will become a better scorer off the dribble with a partner. He's very slow and lacks that first step to get by defenders, so everything is difficult for him when he tries to break someone down. The fact that his 3-point shooting this season is elite and it's still not helping him create space from his defender to drive is deeply concerning.

I've always felt that Cade would be best in a Middleton role with some extra playmaking ability. A tertiary offensive option ideally, a secondary offensive option at best. Detroit has done a terrible job with roster construction but that doesn't completely absolve Cade or make it so we can't say he never would go #1 in a re-draft. He is pretty firmly a worse prospect at this point than Barnes and Mobley.

[Mr Peanut]

But you can look at his fellow 2021 draft pick in Barnes who has a similar issue of no shooting, and yet he manages to still be an efficient scorer without turning over the ball 6 times a game. Hell, Franz also plays on a team with bad shooting and still manages to score efficiently. If people are ready to admit Cade never should have gone number 1 then I’ll buy this argument. But if people still maintain he should have been the #1 pick then there’s no excuse for this terrible efficiency.

The situations aren't really comparable. Cade is very clearly the lead ballhander for the Pistons with a usage of 33.4%, while Scottie's is 26.1%. When you consider the average league usage rate is somewhere around 20% it means Cade is statistically beyond a standard deviation from Scottie and it's more understandable why he may be turning the ball over 5.5 times per game compared to Scottie's 3.3. And then you take into account that Scottie has guys like Siakam, Anunoby and even Schroeder starting with him that draws the opposing team's defensive attention, and then look at the guys that Cade shares the floor with and you can understand why he may not have as many open shots to boost his shooting efficiency.

Also, Cade has a better FG% and TS% than Franz this season in case you weren't aware of that (which I presume you weren't as you've called Franz an efficient scorer and Cade a terribly efficient scorer in the same paragraph).

With Franz, I was speaking more with regard to their careers to date. I don't believe Franz is as bad of a shooter as he's showing this season. I do believe Cade is as bad of a scorer as he's shown this season because he's been similarly bad in the last two seasons. Just like I'm not about to say Scottie is a better 3-point shooter than Cade because of this small sample size.

With regards to the usage, it's even worse if Cade is getting more usage and putting up fewer points on worse shooting. All that means is that he actually should have less of a role on offense, rather than the heliocentric system his fans have been clamouring to build around him. I don't deny that his teammates are bad, but the debate was shooting. On the Raptors, only Anunoby is a reliable shooter in the starting lineup with Scottie. Pascal has been horrible to start the year (and they're using him badly) and Schroeder is most effective at creating for himself, not as a spot-up release valve guy.

I'll grant you that the turnovers will go down if Cade gets a partner to whom he can relinquish some usage. I don't agree that he will become a better scorer off the dribble with a partner. He's very slow and lacks that first step to get by defenders, so everything is difficult for him when he tries to break someone down. The fact that his 3-point shooting this season is elite and it's still not helping him create space from his defender to drive is deeply concerning.

I've always felt that Cade would be best in a Middleton role with some extra playmaking ability. A tertiary offensive option ideally, a secondary offensive option at best. Detroit has done a terrible job with roster construction but that doesn't completely absolve Cade or make it so we can't say he never would go #1 in a re-draft. He is pretty firmly a worse prospect at this point than Barnes and Mobley.

Strictly speaking, Cade is scoring more than Scottie although less efficiently yes. I think the current Cade heliocentric offense isn't necessarily by design - Bojan had a usage of 26% last season and provides 20 ppg on good shooting efficiency, and Monte Morris would be the primary ballhandler sharing a reasonable amount of minutes with Cade. Unfortunately we started the season with both injured and Cade has just been expected to take on the bulk of the offensive load by himself when he hadn't set foot on an NBA court for almost 12 months.

His first step has always been slow but he does have the ability to get to where he needs to on the court and get an open shot when he isn't constantly being double teamed. Couple that in with his improving 3 point shot and I think a lot of people shouldn't be worried about his ability to continue developing as a scorer. As to what option he ends up being that depends on how Weaver continues to build this roster.

In terms of how the 2021 class shapes up as prospects, that's anyone's guess. On the RealGM spectrum of opinions I'm a bit more conservative and tend to shy away from reactionary takes, and generally in the case of evaluating young players I would give them the length of their rookie contracts to make a definitive call. Do I think Mobley and Barnes have been more impressive in their short careers than Cade? Yes. Do I think they'll be better players in five years? Jury's out in my mind.

[Godymas]

If you actually read or listen to these, they are all ways of creating interest/hype without actually saying anything stupid or flat-out wrong. The quote there is absolutely not saying 'he will be Luka Doncic,' it's saying Luka is the best at being the type of player/role that Cade is. That's very true and not that interesting. And the Mahomes thing is obviously just a very loose comp across sports (plus Mahomes wasn't close to a #1 pick out of college).

These articles aren't saying that much either. The Ringer one names Cade's strengths and weaknesses very straightforwardly, seems very non-hype-ish (it's also called "Cade Cunningham Can Do It All But Can He Anchor an NBA Team?"). The second one is like 5 sentences just explaining why he's the #1 pick. The Jeremy Woo article is pretty strange, it names the TO and shooting % issues very directly but it's aiming for hype so just makes bad excuses for them. No one who knows how to follow a prospect would read these and come away from any of those articles thinking this was a phenomenal generational prospect.

Is 'Fade for Cade' hypeish enough? I remember a number of those

https://sports.yahoo.com/detroit-pistons-fade-cade-cunningham-015255237.html

People do this basically every year that there are well known prospects at the top of the draft. Especially when a good rhyme is involved. Fans of bad teams want to feel excited about something lol

no they do not, you're literally gaslighting

no one was doing this for Anthony Edwards, no one was doing this for Paolo Banchero, they don't do this every year.

[Dmcg88]

There's no reason why a guy at his size should be only getting 3 rebounds per game. Even with his athleticism, he's still 6-6 with 7-0 wingspan.

He has a great skillset, but his lack of athleticism is hindering his game. He has trouble getting to his spots, and his rim game is non existent. He's going to have to improve as a shooter, so the rest of his game opens up, because at this moment he's too easy to defend. I also think he's more suited as a secondary ball handler.

Cade is a fine rebounder. His problem is he is in a lineup with Ausar and Duran who are great rebounders. And Stewart is decent rebounder too

Cade has no problem getting to his spot at all. His 3pt shot has improved this year but his middy hasn’t been that great so far this year. He needs to cut down on TO but his biggest issue is supporting cast. He is surrounded by no shooters. He’s always doubled and getting blitzed. Pistons 5 best shooter are injured right now (Boggy, Livers, Burke, Morris, Harris) He’s forced to take alot of bad shots because no one else in lineup can create or shoot. He gets downhill well but does not know how to sell a foul to save his life. Also is conditioning isn’t there yet. His fourth quarter efficiency takes a nose dive because he’s been gassed. And Pistons mismanagement of Ivey hasn’t helped

[shmeakone]

RJ Barrett is better.

[Time for Change]

There is no offensive talent around him. Somehow the Pistons surrounded him with a bunch of non shooters. The game should be easier for him once there is talent so I'll cut him some slack. He's still not a #1 guy regardless but could be a really good #2

But you can look at his fellow 2021 draft pick in Barnes who has a similar issue of no shooting, and yet he manages to still be an efficient scorer without turning over the ball 6 times a game. Hell, Franz also plays on a team with bad shooting and still manages to score efficiently. If people are ready to admit Cade never should have gone number 1 then I’ll buy this argument. But if people still maintain he should have been the #1 pick then there’s no excuse for this terrible efficiency.

The situations aren't really comparable. Cade is very clearly the lead ballhander for the Pistons with a usage of 33.4%, while Scottie's is 26.1%. When you consider the average league usage rate is somewhere around 20% it means Cade is statistically beyond a standard deviation from Scottie and it's more understandable why he may be turning the ball over 5.5 times per game compared to Scottie's 3.3. And then you take into account that Scottie has guys like Siakam, Anunoby and even Schroeder starting with him that draws the opposing team's defensive attention, and then look at the guys that Cade shares the floor with and you can understand why he may not have as many open shots to boost his shooting efficiency.

Also, Cade has a better FG% and TS% than Franz this season in case you weren't aware of that (which I presume you weren't as you've called Franz an efficient scorer and Cade a terribly efficient scorer in the same paragraph).

You’re right about Cade’s teammates, but many great players have played with scrubs or bad rosters, it’s almost a rite of passage for #1 picks. The real stars still shine even in adversity. If you rely on your teammates to make you better, instead of being the one to make them better, then you’re a roleplayer not a franchise player.

[NYPiston]

Who said that Cade was a generational prospect? That's complete BS

Also, lets assess the team that is surrounding him currently. Hayes who is one of the most inefficient players in NBA history, a rookie in Ausar Thompson who can't shoot yet, Stewart who isn't a starting level player and Duren who has a limited offensive game at this point in his career. How exactly is his potential supposed to be maximized surrounded by arguably the worst supporting cast in the league?

I'm not saying that he doesn't have limitations and the turnover rate is absurdly high partially because he's literally their only offensive option and defenses blitz him so much but I don't know how one can properly evaluate him right now based on what he has to work with currently. Cade is not Luka, few are, he needs some help around him to maximize his ability.

[Snakebites]

He was a weak consensus as the number one pick- I don't know who thought going in he was going to be All-NBA First team material here- maybe a few of the more hopeful Piston fans.

In terms of experience he's a second year guy- though I'm definitely concerned about the year of lost development- that's not nothing.

As for the start to his season- he's improved in some ways but the turnovers need to come down and the scoring efficiency needs to go up. It is hard as a creator to deal with having two total non-shooters on the wing- his co-pilots on the perimeter are Killian Hayes (who despite a great game yesterday has probably been the worst starter in the league) and Ausar Thompson- who's tremendously talented but an abysmal shooter to start the season. I certainly won't attribute all of his turnover issue to that problem- he's making undeniably ill advised passes as well. It's also fair to point out that he just finished his eighth game in a brand new coach's system- lets see if those turnovers start to come down within the next few weeks.

Concerns? I mean sure. Obviously if this is the season we get from him then that's a problem. But I'm HOPING we see improvement as he adjusts to the new system, and as the FOUR SHOOTERS (plus Ivey) we have injured to start the year gradually return from those injuries.

[NYPiston]

I've always felt that Cade would be best in a Middleton role with some extra playmaking ability. A tertiary offensive option ideally, a secondary offensive option at best. Detroit has done a terrible job with roster construction but that doesn't completely absolve Cade or make it so we can't say he never would go #1 in a re-draft. He is pretty firmly a worse prospect at this point than Barnes and Mobley.

Barnes and Mobley have been in FAR better situations. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

[Reeko]

Concerns given that he was the 1st pick of the draft? Yes, I don't think he's going to live up to that billing as there is a chance that he's not a top 5 player from his own draft class. Concerns that he won't develop into a good NBA player? None, he's going to be a good player in the league.

[scrabbarista]

I haven't really watched him play much for Detroit.

That said, I did watch him in college, and you can find the posts where I said he was not worthy of the number one pick because of his limited athleticism. I pointed out that college guards were playing him on the ball and stuffing his shots at the rim. I said a teenager should not have the same level of athleticism as past-his-prime Paul Pierce if said teenager is going to go number one in the NBA Draft. I also, by the way, had Doncic as by far the best player in his class. I always felt the comparisons were a stretch.

He has some good things going for him as a player. I hope he maxes his potential, whatever that is... Second-best on a champ? From what I remember of him in college, maybe.

[76ciology]

If Pistons give the same green light with Marcus Sasser, Sasser would be the Pistons best player and he’s be better than Cade.

[76ciology]

Would you rather have an low FG%, high TO, all around guard in Cade Cunningham or a high FG%, low TO, superb scorer in Cam Thomas?

[76ciology]

There is no offensive talent around him. Somehow the Pistons surrounded him with a bunch of non shooters. The game should be easier for him once there is talent so I'll cut him some slack. He's still not a #1 guy regardless but could be a really good #2

He should play with Marcus Sasser. They both compliment one another. Including their size and speed

[Madhouse]

the defense is the biggest concern. If he can't defend at all there is nothing to be done really. I still think it's rust but it has looked pretty rough.