How does Atlanta Hawks get over mediocrity?

[Pointgod]

I was a huge believer in Trae but sadly I think it’s time to end that chapter. Imagine a lead guard like Anthony Edwards, Luka, Booker, Shai would do with this team? There’s just way too much talent to be playing this poorly.

[dirkforpres]

Gotta break up the Trae-Dejounte backcourt and get a reliable forward.

[Rainwater]

The fact that RealGM and majority of NBA fandom are still talking about Trae Young being the problem despite, once again, leading a mediocre team to a top offense in the NBA proves that most fans don't watch games and go off what other fans say about players and teams that they don't watch.

The Hawks suck because the Hawks don't know how to draft and they hold on to players that aren't worth holding on too.

For example, the Hawks have held on to DeAndre Hunter and OO for too damn long. Both should've been traded 2 seasons ago. They are not that good. Deandre Hunter plays like he is 5'10 and OO is too damn gentle and small to start at C and lacks the ball skills to be a PF.

The Hawks suck because they don't know how to trade. Why would anybody trade for the homeless man version of Russell Westbrook? I don't even know what people see in a player like Dejounte, he's such a losing player.

The Hawks suck because they don't know when to tank. They had Trae Young under contract, he wasn't gonna go anywhere, they could've tanked for someone like Paolo during the Covid/injury season after they went to the playoffs.

The Hawks suck because their front office lack vision.

The Hawks will not be good until a Lebron James level of player comes through there and forces the front office not to be stupid.

I feel Trae is the problem and Hawks fans will always blame everyone but him and funny thing he hasn’t been good at all this season yet gets little blame. You guys have fired coaches because of Trae and traded players to fit this system. Yes, because of Trae’s passing skills he has led you guys to a top 10 offense but you guy have to sacrifice on defense due to Trae. Dude is highly inefficient from the field yet he continues to chuck. At some point there has to be a realization that building around Trae is not a good idea.

Trae's not that bad defensively that he's singlehandedly causing the Hawks' defensive issues. He's ranked in the 51st percentile and the 45th percentile in defensive on/off the last 2 seasons. Not saying he's actually an average defender, but he's a lot better than he used to be and he isn't the problem. Trae's actually a bargain on his current contract. He's like De'Aaron Fox. Has his flaws, but is still a hugely valuable player.

Fox is far better than Trae in my opinion.

[Rendei]

The Hawks are 1-6 since Jalen Johnson got hurt. Their greatest hope right now is probably his development.

[User_friendly]

Poor Trae
Just when he thought his numbers were going to be validated by “tell me when he does something relevant in playoffs” now they seem to argue his team success was “in spite of him”

[Ball4life32]

I feel Trae is the problem and Hawks fans will always blame everyone but him and funny thing he hasn’t been good at all this season yet gets little blame. You guys have fired coaches because of Trae and traded players to fit this system. Yes, because of Trae’s passing skills he has led you guys to a top 10 offense but you guy have to sacrifice on defense due to Trae. Dude is highly inefficient from the field yet he continues to chuck. At some point there has to be a realization that building around Trae is not a good idea.

Trae's not that bad defensively that he's singlehandedly causing the Hawks' defensive issues. He's ranked in the 51st percentile and the 45th percentile in defensive on/off the last 2 seasons. Not saying he's actually an average defender, but he's a lot better than he used to be and he isn't the problem. Trae's actually a bargain on his current contract. He's like De'Aaron Fox. Has his flaws, but is still a hugely valuable player.

Fox is far better than Trae in my opinion.

Far better yet metrics have Trae.

Trae +4.7 EPM +3.8 BPM

Fox +4.0 EPM +3.5 BPM (career high)

[Rainwater]

Trae's not that bad defensively that he's singlehandedly causing the Hawks' defensive issues. He's ranked in the 51st percentile and the 45th percentile in defensive on/off the last 2 seasons. Not saying he's actually an average defender, but he's a lot better than he used to be and he isn't the problem. Trae's actually a bargain on his current contract. He's like De'Aaron Fox. Has his flaws, but is still a hugely valuable player.

Fox is far better than Trae in my opinion.

Far better yet every metric has Trae.

Trae +4.7 EPM +3.8 BPM

Fox +4.0 EPM +3.5 BPM (career high)

Are you talking overall? Because Fox beats Trae in every category this year TS%, ppg, FG%, per, etc. And unlike Trae his team is winning and can be title contenders.

Trae is just not a player I would build my team around. He really would be better off as a third option.

[Saints14]

I realize this is a stupid response but they just need better players. I think the Trae hate is stupid, but he's just not that level of superstar where he can be the clear-cut best player on a great team. He's still great and worth building around, but he needs a star teammate. Dejounte Murray is a good player but he's not a star. Is there a path for them to pair Trae with another star, perhaps one that's better than him? I think the next move I would make is to try and retool around Trae, Okongwu and Jalen Johnson (and keep AJ Griffin and Bufkin as fliers), and see what I can get for Murray, Capela, Bogdanovic, maybe Hunter. But the path to adding another star player from there is very tough

[Ball4life32]

Fox is far better than Trae in my opinion.

Far better yet every metric has Trae.

Trae +4.7 EPM +3.8 BPM

Fox +4.0 EPM +3.5 BPM (career high)

Are you talking overall? Because Fox beats Trae in every category this year TS%, ppg, FG%, per, etc. And unlike Trae his team is winning and can be title contenders.

Trae is just not a player I would build my team around. He really would be better off as a third option.

Title contenders when the Kings have neither a top 10 offense or defense currently and have a negative point differential? Not sure if you’re serious. Also weird talking about team success like Trae isn’t younger than Fox… has more playoff appearances including actually winning multiple series. And how many 3rd options guarantee you a top 10 offense? Trae must be the only 3rd option in the league that’s top 10 in every offensive metric every year.

[Castle Black]

Step 1: Trade Dejounte back to the Spurs for one of their own FRP’s back (lol).

Step 2: Tank.

[hyper316]

Step 1: Trade Dejounte back to the Spurs for one of their own FRP’s back (lol).

Step 2: Tank.

Can raptors jump on that deal and send Poeltl back for our pick too?

[Rainwater]

Far better yet every metric has Trae.

Trae +4.7 EPM +3.8 BPM

Fox +4.0 EPM +3.5 BPM (career high)

Are you talking overall? Because Fox beats Trae in every category this year TS%, ppg, FG%, per, etc. And unlike Trae his team is winning and can be title contenders.

Trae is just not a player I would build my team around. He really would be better off as a third option.

Title contenders when the Kings have neither a top 10 offense or defense currently and have a negative point differential? Not sure if you’re serious. Also weird talking about team success like Trae isn’t younger than Fox… has more playoff appearances including actually winning multiple series. And how many 3rd options guarantee you a top 10 offense? Trae must be the only 3rd option in the league that’s top 10 in every offensive metric every year.

The Kings are 5th in the West and were 3rd last year, while Hawks are barely a playin team in the east and have never finished better than 5th with Trae and have been 8th seed outs the last two playoff runs. The kings are on an upward swing while the Hawks have been stagnant since a fluke conference run. A conference run that all Hawks fans use as proof of Trae’s greatness but since then hasn’t done much since and he has been completely horrible when in the playoffs. I don’t know why you keep on being up top 10 offense when Hawks haven’t really improved as a team. And again, you said that Trae beats Fox in ALL metrics this year yet PPG, Fox. TS%, Fox. FG%, Fox, PER, Fox. I can go on. Trae and Fox are pretty much the same age, Fox is only a few months older. Trae is a good player but as long as Trae is your lead guy, you are destined for stagnation. Put him next to a guy like Embiid that would be nice but I would not build around him.


And it’s funny you are making this argument considering Fox is having career year and Trae will likely not be an all star.

[iggymcfrack]

Fox is far better than Trae in my opinion.

Far better yet every metric has Trae.

Trae +4.7 EPM +3.8 BPM

Fox +4.0 EPM +3.5 BPM (career high)

Are you talking overall? Because Fox beats Trae in every category this year TS%, ppg, FG%, per, etc. And unlike Trae his team is winning and can be title contenders.

Trae is just not a player I would build my team around. He really would be better off as a third option.

Trae averages 10.5 APG to Fox’s 6.4 APG. He’s a much better passer. That’s why this is his 4th season with a higher BPM than Fox’s career high. As scorers and defenders they’re very similar. Fox is averaging 2.7 more PPG on .008 better TS% so far this season and I’m honestly not sure which one’s a better defender between the two of them.

[iggymcfrack]

Are you talking overall? Because Fox beats Trae in every category this year TS%, ppg, FG%, per, etc. And unlike Trae his team is winning and can be title contenders.

Trae is just not a player I would build my team around. He really would be better off as a third option.

Title contenders when the Kings have neither a top 10 offense or defense currently and have a negative point differential? Not sure if you’re serious. Also weird talking about team success like Trae isn’t younger than Fox… has more playoff appearances including actually winning multiple series. And how many 3rd options guarantee you a top 10 offense? Trae must be the only 3rd option in the league that’s top 10 in every offensive metric every year.

The Kings are 5th in the West and were 3rd last year, while Hawks are barely a playin team in the east and have never finished better than 5th with Trae and have been 8th seed outs the last two playoff runs. The kings are on an upward swing while the Hawks have been stagnant since a fluke conference run. A conference run that all Hawks fans use as proof of Trae’s greatness but since then hasn’t done much since and he has been completely horrible when in the playoffs. I don’t know why you keep on being up top 10 offense when Hawks haven’t really improved as a team. And again, you said that Trae beats Fox in ALL metrics this year yet PPG, Fox. TS%, Fox. FG%, Fox, PER, Fox. I can go on. Trae and Fox are pretty much the same age, Fox is only a few months older. Trae is a good player but as long as Trae is your lead guy, you are destined for stagnation. Put him next to a guy like Embiid that would be nice but I would not build around him.


And it’s funny you are making this argument considering Fox is having career year and Trae will likely not be an all star.

The Kings were remarkably healthy last year and managed to scratch out a good seed, but it’s not like the Kings have been better with Fox on the floor than the Hawks have with Trae over the years. Here are their NetRtgs with the player on the floor:

Hawks with Trae
2021: +5.3
2022: +2.9
2023: +0.8
2024: +0.4
Average: +2.6

Kings with Fox
2021: -4.5
2022: -4.5
2023: +2.6
2024: +2.5
Average: -1.5

Even last year with the Kings getting the 2 seed, the team played at the exact same point differential with Fox on the floor as Trae’s 4 year average.

[Archx]

[tweet][/tweet]
Far better yet every metric has Trae.

Trae +4.7 EPM +3.8 BPM

Fox +4.0 EPM +3.5 BPM (career high)

Are you talking overall? Because Fox beats Trae in every category this year TS%, ppg, FG%, per, etc. And unlike Trae his team is winning and can be title contenders.

Trae is just not a player I would build my team around. He really would be better off as a third option.

Trae averages 10.5 APG to Fox’s 6.4 APG. He’s a much better passer. That’s why this is his 4th season with a higher BPM than Fox’s career high. As scorers and defenders they’re very similar. Fox is averaging 2.7 more PPG on .008 better TS% so far this season and I’m honestly not sure which one’s a better defender between the two of them.

Just to support your claim a little bit. There is a difference between Trae and Fox.

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[Scalabrine]

Hawks trade
Capela, Hunter, Bufkin
2024 and 2029 first round pick

Hawks get
Siakam, Poku

Raptors trade
Siakam, Otto Porter

Raptors get
Hunter, Bufkin, Bertans 2024and 2029 Hawks, 2024 Clippers pick

Thunder trade
Bertans, Poku, 2024 Clippers pick

Thunder get
Capela, Otto Porter

Hakws would then have a depth chart of
Okonwu/Fernando
Siakam/Bey
Johnson/Griffin
Murray/Bogdanovic
Young/Murray

[Jamaaliver]

As much as outside fans love to blame all of Atlanta's issues on Trae Young, he isn't the problem.

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[Jamaaliver]

Without going to long or in-depth, it feels like Atlanta has a great offensive player...but no one else on the roster is great at anything. Not defense, not shooting, not rebounding, not scoring, not scouting or trading.

We have a great offensive engine who consistently leads a top offensive attack. Now we have a great head coach.

Everything else associated with the franchise pretty is 'meh'.

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[Fadeaway_Jumper]

I don’t have a solution because the Hawks have been in mediocrity since I’ve been alive. It’s a FO problem at this point.

But I don’t like how people will say not picking Luka over Trae was massive blunder. Both of them have the same playoff success, and Jalen Brunson & Kyrie is better than anyone Trae has played with.

Also Trae has and probably never will miss the play-in

[Jamaaliver]

But I don’t like how people will say not picking Luka over Trae was massive blunder. Both of them have the same playoff success, and Jalen Brunson & Kyrie is better than anyone Trae has played with.

Spoiler:

Get rid of Trae

Tra(d)e Young.

Trade Trae Young, Bogdanovic.
Get multiple picks, build better. Avoid undersized guards.

Their "superstar" is an inefficient chucker who's one of the worst defenders in the league, Atlanta needs to blow it up or they are destined to just be a tread mill playoff team for the next five years

And of course the biggest gaffe...drafting Trae Young over Luka Doncic.

Yeah, for all the blunders the Hawks have committed the last 5+ years, the Luka - Trae trade is pretty low on the list.

• Trading 4 draft picks for DeAndre Hunter
• Trading 4 draft picks for DeJounte Murray
• Passing on Ty Haliburton for an undersized backup Center in the 2020 Draft
• Hiring Nate McMillan as FT Head Coach
• Not getting more in trade for Luka Doncic on draft night 2018