Is Kyrie the Goat "Guard" Robin of all time?

[flytimes11]

Well Shaq didn't have his peak years with those guys did he. If you ported healthy versions of Penny and Wade to 00-02 then they would win 3 titles too. Shaq had maybe 1-2 prime years with Wade. First year Wade is hurt in the ECFs, year two they win.

Stop discrediting Kobe with your stupid weak cheap argument. Replace such and such and they still win. You can’t prove that or back it up. But what I can prove is Kobe had more success without Shaq than Shaq had without Kobe. Also again Kobe put up the same numbers in 09 and 10 that he put up in 01 and 02 so your Robin statement is also dumb. Just like your entire argument. You sir are a clown.

I can prove what did happen, namely that Kobe went 135-137 from 99-07 in games without Shaq, including 23-26 from 99-04 specifically. In games Kobe missed Shaq had the Lakers playing at a 60+ win pace.

Nobody is arguing Kobe was better in 2010 as opposed to 02. That's the point. Kobe didn't get better, his support cast did. Without the best support cast in the league we can see how Kobe did. 135-137. Sub-500 territory. He wasn't a guy who could carry a team like genuine top 15ish players could (e.g Giannis, Jokic, Luka, KD, D.Rob, Nash, etc). That doesn't mean he wasn't a very valuable player, but it's clear his impact just wasn't at that level. Pace adjusted stats say it wasn't close vs alot of modern guys, and advanced stats hate him even more. There's just not alot of arguments to support your view of him

All that regular season stuff you talking about. Kobe still has one more ring than Shaq. We have seen plenty of regular season guys like Malone. Barkley. But floor raising is overrated. No star has ever won with a bad supporting cast. Not Jordan. Not Lebron. Not Shaq. Nobody. Kobe couldn’t carry a team but he went to 3 straight finals yet you saying Luka can carry a team and he just now about to make his first finals. Take off the red nose and white face paint clown.

[One_and_Done]

Stop discrediting Kobe with your stupid weak cheap argument. Replace such and such and they still win. You can’t prove that or back it up. But what I can prove is Kobe had more success without Shaq than Shaq had without Kobe. Also again Kobe put up the same numbers in 09 and 10 that he put up in 01 and 02 so your Robin statement is also dumb. Just like your entire argument. You sir are a clown.

I can prove what did happen, namely that Kobe went 135-137 from 99-07 in games without Shaq, including 23-26 from 99-04 specifically. In games Kobe missed Shaq had the Lakers playing at a 60+ win pace.

Nobody is arguing Kobe was better in 2010 as opposed to 02. That's the point. Kobe didn't get better, his support cast did. Without the best support cast in the league we can see how Kobe did. 135-137. Sub-500 territory. He wasn't a guy who could carry a team like genuine top 15ish players could (e.g Giannis, Jokic, Luka, KD, D.Rob, Nash, etc). That doesn't mean he wasn't a very valuable player, but it's clear his impact just wasn't at that level. Pace adjusted stats say it wasn't close vs alot of modern guys, and advanced stats hate him even more. There's just not alot of arguments to support your view of him

All that regular season stuff you talking about. Kobe still has one more ring than Shaq. We have seen plenty of regular season guys like Malone. Barkley. But floor raising is overrated. No star has ever won with a bad supporting cast. Not Jordan. Not Lebron. Not Shaq. Nobody. Kobe couldn’t carry a team but he went to 3 straight finals yet you saying Luka can carry a team and he just now about to make his first finals. Take off the red nose and white face paint clown.

Kobe has many embarrassing playoff failures. He was just fortunate to be on stacked teams most of his career. Other guys would have won more than 5 rings in his place. He actually underachieved given the preposterous number of stacked teams he was on. The Lakers were title favourites for at least 10 years with Kobe, and he lost half the time. 50% failure rate. Yikes.

[flytimes11]

I can prove what did happen, namely that Kobe went 135-137 from 99-07 in games without Shaq, including 23-26 from 99-04 specifically. In games Kobe missed Shaq had the Lakers playing at a 60+ win pace.

Nobody is arguing Kobe was better in 2010 as opposed to 02. That's the point. Kobe didn't get better, his support cast did. Without the best support cast in the league we can see how Kobe did. 135-137. Sub-500 territory. He wasn't a guy who could carry a team like genuine top 15ish players could (e.g Giannis, Jokic, Luka, KD, D.Rob, Nash, etc). That doesn't mean he wasn't a very valuable player, but it's clear his impact just wasn't at that level. Pace adjusted stats say it wasn't close vs alot of modern guys, and advanced stats hate him even more. There's just not alot of arguments to support your view of him

All that regular season stuff you talking about. Kobe still has one more ring than Shaq. We have seen plenty of regular season guys like Malone. Barkley. But floor raising is overrated. No star has ever won with a bad supporting cast. Not Jordan. Not Lebron. Not Shaq. Nobody. Kobe couldn’t carry a team but he went to 3 straight finals yet you saying Luka can carry a team and he just now about to make his first finals. Take off the red nose and white face paint clown.

Kobe has many embarrassing playoff failures. He was just fortunate to be on stacked teams most of his career. Other guys would have won more than 5 rings in his place. He actually underachieved given the preposterous number of stacked teams he was on. The Lakers were title favourites for at least 10 years with Kobe, and he lost half the time. 50% failure rate. Yikes.

Your arguments are comical. So Shaq didn’t have stacked teams most of his career? Shaq hasn’t been swept 5 times in the playoffs? Lol I know to never take your posts serious. Clown.

[One_and_Done]

All that regular season stuff you talking about. Kobe still has one more ring than Shaq. We have seen plenty of regular season guys like Malone. Barkley. But floor raising is overrated. No star has ever won with a bad supporting cast. Not Jordan. Not Lebron. Not Shaq. Nobody. Kobe couldn’t carry a team but he went to 3 straight finals yet you saying Luka can carry a team and he just now about to make his first finals. Take off the red nose and white face paint clown.

Kobe has many embarrassing playoff failures. He was just fortunate to be on stacked teams most of his career. Other guys would have won more than 5 rings in his place. He actually underachieved given the preposterous number of stacked teams he was on. The Lakers were title favourites for at least 10 years with Kobe, and he lost half the time. 50% failure rate. Yikes.

Your arguments are comical. So Shaq didn’t have stacked teams most of his career? Shaq hasn’t been swept 5 times in the playoffs? Lol I know to never take your posts serious. Clown.

Are we talking about Shaq or Kobe here? Shaq had alot of great teams btw, though not as many as Kobe. I just don't think pursuing this line of argument is wise for you. If Shaq got to play his first 8 years as prime Lebron's sidekick he'd have more titles than Kobe I assure you.

[flytimes11]

Kobe has many embarrassing playoff failures. He was just fortunate to be on stacked teams most of his career. Other guys would have won more than 5 rings in his place. He actually underachieved given the preposterous number of stacked teams he was on. The Lakers were title favourites for at least 10 years with Kobe, and he lost half the time. 50% failure rate. Yikes.

Your arguments are comical. So Shaq didn’t have stacked teams most of his career? Shaq hasn’t been swept 5 times in the playoffs? Lol I know to never take your posts serious. Clown.

Are we talking about Shaq or Kobe here? Shaq had alot of great teams btw, though not as many as Kobe. I just don't think pursuing this line of argument is wise for you. If Shaq got to play his first 8 years as prime Lebron's sidekick he'd have more titles than Kobe I assure you.

You keep talking about hypotheticals like Kobe the only player to ever have good teammates. Stop being a clown. You sound dumb. Shaq needed Kobe just as much as Kobe needed Shaq. You don’t carry someone who makes it to 3 straight finals without you. Co stars at worst

[flytimes11]

Kobe has many embarrassing playoff failures. He was just fortunate to be on stacked teams most of his career. Other guys would have won more than 5 rings in his place. He actually underachieved given the preposterous number of stacked teams he was on. The Lakers were title favourites for at least 10 years with Kobe, and he lost half the time. 50% failure rate. Yikes.

Your arguments are comical. So Shaq didn’t have stacked teams most of his career? Shaq hasn’t been swept 5 times in the playoffs? Lol I know to never take your posts serious. Clown.

Are we talking about Shaq or Kobe here? Shaq had alot of great teams btw, though not as many as Kobe. I just don't think pursuing this line of argument is wise for you. If Shaq got to play his first 8 years as prime Lebron's sidekick he'd have more titles than Kobe I assure you.

If lakers got cp3 they woulda won 3 more chips… see how your dumb logic works?

[One_and_Done]

Your arguments are comical. So Shaq didn’t have stacked teams most of his career? Shaq hasn’t been swept 5 times in the playoffs? Lol I know to never take your posts serious. Clown.

Are we talking about Shaq or Kobe here? Shaq had alot of great teams btw, though not as many as Kobe. I just don't think pursuing this line of argument is wise for you. If Shaq got to play his first 8 years as prime Lebron's sidekick he'd have more titles than Kobe I assure you.

You keep talking about hypotheticals like Kobe the only player to ever have good teammates. Stop being a clown. You sound dumb. Shaq needed Kobe just as much as Kobe needed Shaq. You don’t carry someone who makes it to 3 straight finals without you. Co stars at worst

The point is better players, like the ones I named, showed their greater ability to impact winning by carrying lesser teams at different points. Kobe showed the opposite; he was not a floor raiser.

Your big come back to this, that Kobe may not have raised the floor, bit that he was a killer in the playoffs, falls flat. This is because Kobe had many bad series, and failed many times he should have succeeded.

Alot of great players had great team mates... some of the time. But there were also years when they didn't have the best support cast, and overcame the odds. Kobe did not.

[One_and_Done]

Your arguments are comical. So Shaq didn’t have stacked teams most of his career? Shaq hasn’t been swept 5 times in the playoffs? Lol I know to never take your posts serious. Clown.

Are we talking about Shaq or Kobe here? Shaq had alot of great teams btw, though not as many as Kobe. I just don't think pursuing this line of argument is wise for you. If Shaq got to play his first 8 years as prime Lebron's sidekick he'd have more titles than Kobe I assure you.

If lakers got cp3 they woulda won 3 more chips… see how your dumb logic works?

Kobe would have been CP3s sidekick in reality

[flytimes11]

Are we talking about Shaq or Kobe here? Shaq had alot of great teams btw, though not as many as Kobe. I just don't think pursuing this line of argument is wise for you. If Shaq got to play his first 8 years as prime Lebron's sidekick he'd have more titles than Kobe I assure you.

You keep talking about hypotheticals like Kobe the only player to ever have good teammates. Stop being a clown. You sound dumb. Shaq needed Kobe just as much as Kobe needed Shaq. You don’t carry someone who makes it to 3 straight finals without you. Co stars at worst

The point is better players, like the ones I named, showed their greater ability to impact winning by carrying lesser teams at different points. Kobe showed the opposite; he was not a floor raiser.

Your big come back to this, that Kobe may not have raised the floor, bit that he was a killer in the playoffs, falls flat. This is because Kobe had many bad series, and failed many times he should have succeeded.

Alot of great players had great team mates... some of the time. But there were also years when they didn't have the best support cast, and overcame the odds. Kobe did not.

Overcame the odds? Like who? Who won a championship with a bad supporting cast? Can’t believe realgm lets clowns like you post on here. Then I see how many posts you got and I realize why this is a bad place to talk basketball. Nobody would win a chip with Odom, kwame, Walton and the likes.

[sp6r=underrated]

God this guy gets over-rated. He ran teams into the ground for half a decade like it was his professional mission. He goes on good behavior for one year and now he's getting discussion as a top second option all time.

I'd far prefer Terry Porter over Kyrie.

[The Hypnotoad]

Anyone who claims Kyrie is better than Curry or Kobe should have their posting privileges removed the rest of the playoffs.

As a sidekick “Robyn” type is the threads question.

I still say Klay.

[MrBigShot]

If you exclude Kobe, Steph and DWade then yeah sure.

[Stan]

People really think Kyrie is a better robin than Oscar Robertson on the Bucks, Walt Frazier and Manu? Big yikes.

[LascelleL]

Kobe wasn't Robin...he was Batman to Shaq's Superman.

[jokeboy86]

Maybe I’m getting old but Kobe Bryant did play in the NBA not too long ago right? It wasnt that long ago was it. I mean I know today’s society doesnt like thinking about anything older than 5 years but still

Now if u think that some of those other guards were never real #2s I could go with that. But as good as Kyrie is let’s put some respect on Dumars and Klay’s name.

[The4thHorseman]

Puh leeeeeeeze. Talk about reactionary thread. Yes, Kyrie has redeemed himself this year and just balling. But, not even close. Kyrie has only won one championship. There a ton of other Robin's that have done way more

You got Pippen, Kobe, Kareem (when Magic joined), Wade (w Lebron), Robinson (w Duncan), Gasol
- all these players have multiple championships as the #2

You consider Kareem 2nd option in Magic's rookie year and beyond???

[omerome]

Earl the Pearl comes to mind with the Knicks of the 70s.

[JustBuzzin]

KD let's not overthink this.

[One_and_Done]

You keep talking about hypotheticals like Kobe the only player to ever have good teammates. Stop being a clown. You sound dumb. Shaq needed Kobe just as much as Kobe needed Shaq. You don’t carry someone who makes it to 3 straight finals without you. Co stars at worst

The point is better players, like the ones I named, showed their greater ability to impact winning by carrying lesser teams at different points. Kobe showed the opposite; he was not a floor raiser.

Your big come back to this, that Kobe may not have raised the floor, bit that he was a killer in the playoffs, falls flat. This is because Kobe had many bad series, and failed many times he should have succeeded.

Alot of great players had great team mates... some of the time. But there were also years when they didn't have the best support cast, and overcame the odds. Kobe did not.

Overcame the odds? Like who? Who won a championship with a bad supporting cast? Can’t believe realgm lets clowns like you post on here. Then I see how many posts you got and I realize why this is a bad place to talk basketball. Nobody would win a chip with Odom, kwame, Walton and the likes.

If you read my posts you would literally have the answer to this, but here are some commonly cited examples:
- Duncan in 03
- Hakeem in 94
- Dirk in 11
- Erving in 76
- Walton in 78

But it's not just about winning the title. You can carry a team that's bad to contention, as Kobe never did. For example:
- Kareem joining a 27 win team and taking them to 56 wins as a rookie
- Bird joining a garbage Celtics team as a rookie and taking them to 61 wins as a rookie
- D.Rob joining a 21 win team and turning them into a 56 win contender as a rookie.
- Lebron carrying 2 trash Cleveland teams to 66 and 61 seasons, then seeing them drop to 19 wins after he left.
- Duncan carrying the trash 02 Spurs to contention.

I could go on. You can see the huge impact superior players to Kobe have on winning, like Luka, CP3, KD, Jokic, Nash, Giannis, D.Rob, etc. You can see it with Shaq, who led the Lakers to a 60+ win pace in games Kobe missed at the same time Kobe was leading them to sub-500 ball in games without Shaq.

[Anderson Hunt]

Yes. As guards go, Irving is the best guard sidekick ever who has never won as a number one option.

Billups and Tony Parker, of players I've witnessed, are in the discussion as well.