Do you believe the average NBA player is more talented now than the 90s?

[SelfishPlayer]

The reality is that it's easier to score in today's league. When Adam Silver tells the refs to swallow the whistle the superstars of today look ordinary IMMEDIATELY.

[NbaAllDay]

Certain people get very defensive at the idea that the average player today is more skilled than in the 90s.

No one is saying your favourite era or 'insert favourite player' is any worse.

The average player today requires a greater skillset to play reliable minutes in the NBA.

This is based on how the game has involved and the enormous international growth.

Using ft% as a the main comparison of skill is one of the most laughable things I've heard in a while

[BlackThought]

As someone who's in his early 40s, when I started playing basketball in elementary school, I had no one to teach me other then watching tapes on rewind and playing against neighborhood kids. I did not know how to do a proper layup or shoot until I was in middle school. I'm not talented at sports and not a fast learner. My dad didn't play basketball but did buy a hoop for me in the drive way. I wanted to learn how to dribble better, didn't know how to train. Wanted to shoot better, had no idea how other than repetition.

The fact that everyone has access to so much material online, makes today's players immensely more talented than my generation. The players in the 90s had even less than what I had since they were kids in the late 70s/80s. If by talent you mean raw physical gifts I'm not sure if people today have more than people 30+ years ago but I bet more people realize that talent due to having access to information.

[SpreeS]

NBA had only two international players (Schrempf and Perovic) on ALLNBA-Teams in whole decade (90ies)

93 Petrovic 3rd team
95 Schrempf 3rd team

Now we have 19 this kind of selections in last 4 years. 25% of all NBA players are inter. players. This alone could tell you what avg nba player is better now than in 90ies.

[Hair Jordan]

Certain people get very defensive at the idea that the average player today is more skilled than in the 90s.

No one is saying your favourite era or 'insert favourite player' is any worse.

The average player today requires a greater skillset to play reliable minutes in the NBA.

This is based on how the game has involved and the enormous international growth.

Using ft% as a the main comparison of skill is one of the most laughable things I've heard in a while

Of course. You’ll use any stat that bolsters your claim but will dismiss a stat that weakens it.

[Hair Jordan]

I think the floor for a role player has gotten considerably higher. You can't just be a 7ft tall lumbering center that offers nothing more than 6 fouls, or an undersized "enforcer" that doesn't bring anything to the table other than hustle.

If you are 6'2 or less, you have to be really damn skilled to be in a rotation.

6’2” guys in any era had to be skilled to be on the floor.

[SpreeS]

this year Naz Reid would be 9th best center in 94-95 season

Hakeem
Robinson
O'Neal
Ewing
Mutombo
Smits
Mourning
Divac

Reid

Dudley 27min
Lorenzo Williams 29min
Polynice 31min
Perdue 20min
Montross 30min
Rooks 30min
Hill 34min
Lang 29min
Bradley 29min
West 23min
Muresan 24min
Benjamin 26min
Salley 26min
Massenburg 27min

[brackdan70]

Athletically gifted yes, that’s just a trend as time goes on in general, but the difference is t as much as people make it out to be. I see less players willing or able to play good defense, and understand transition nowadays though.

[brackdan70]

this year Naz Reid would be 9th best center in 94-95 season

Hakeem
Robinson
O'Neal
Ewing
Mutombo
Smits
Mourning
Divac

Reid

Dudley 27min
Lorenzo Williams 29min
Polynice 31min
Perdue 20min
Montross 30min
Rooks 30min
Hill 34min
Lang 29min
Bradley 29min
West 23min
Muresan 24min
Benjamin 26min
Salley 26min
Massenburg 27min

Not saying you are wrong but what are you basing this on?

[King4Day]

Maybe not "more talented" exactly, but more developed. The game is more profitable now so the programs are better. It's a more lucrative dream to pursue so I'm sure guys go at it harder than before. That's not even to mention things unspecific to basketball - modern advancements in training and medical treatments.

/thread

[ropjhk]

They are more talented on average but having more talent doesn't always make you a better basketball player.

[ropjhk]

this year Naz Reid would be 9th best center in 94-95 season

Hakeem
Robinson
O'Neal
Ewing
Mutombo
Smits
Mourning
Divac

Reid

Dudley 27min
Lorenzo Williams 29min
Polynice 31min
Perdue 20min
Montross 30min
Rooks 30min
Hill 34min
Lang 29min
Bradley 29min
West 23min
Muresan 24min
Benjamin 26min
Salley 26min
Massenburg 27min

Not saying you are wrong but what are you basing this on?

Naz Reid would possibly not even play C in 94-95. 7 footer Kevin Willis averaged 17 pts and 11 rebs while listed as a PF.

[SpreeS]

this year Naz Reid would be 9th best center in 94-95 season

Hakeem
Robinson
O'Neal
Ewing
Mutombo
Smits
Mourning
Divac

Reid

Dudley 27min
Lorenzo Williams 29min
Polynice 31min
Perdue 20min
Montross 30min
Rooks 30min
Hill 34min
Lang 29min
Bradley 29min
West 23min
Muresan 24min
Benjamin 26min
Salley 26min
Massenburg 27min

Not saying you are wrong but what are you basing this on?

1. The best scorer
2. The best shooter by huge margin
3. The most mobile big at defence
4. Good rim protector (w/o Gobert/KAT 2.15blk per 36min)

Watch on YouTube

[hardenASG13]

FT % in the 1970’s - 75.4%

FT % in the 2010’s - 76.0%

If the modern player is so much more skilled, why have FT% for the league as a whole remained virtually the same over the past 50 years? Athletes are better, training is better, sports science is better, players practice more and yet the percentages are nearly identical. Can’t wait to read the mental gymnastics used to justify the responses.

So you're equating free throw percentage to talent at basketball? The one time in a game where play is stopped everywhere except for the shooter? The free throw hasn't changed, it's an uncontested shot from 15 feet where the shooter doesn't jump. It makes sense percentages have stayed the same. It has little to do with the skill of the players in the era. Players are better now, they are way more versatile and more athletic during actual gameplay.

[SpreeS]

this year Naz Reid would be 9th best center in 94-95 season

Hakeem
Robinson
O'Neal
Ewing
Mutombo
Smits
Mourning
Divac

Reid

Dudley 27min
Lorenzo Williams 29min
Polynice 31min
Perdue 20min
Montross 30min
Rooks 30min
Hill 34min
Lang 29min
Bradley 29min
West 23min
Muresan 24min
Benjamin 26min
Salley 26min
Massenburg 27min

Not saying you are wrong but what are you basing this on?

Naz Reid would possibly not even play C in 94-95. 7 footer Kevin Willis averaged 17 pts and 11 rebs while listed as a PF.

T.Hill was center 6-9 240lbs
Reid 6-9 264lbs

[Hair Jordan]

FT % in the 1970’s - 75.4%

FT % in the 2010’s - 76.0%

If the modern player is so much more skilled, why have FT% for the league as a whole remained virtually the same over the past 50 years? Athletes are better, training is better, sports science is better, players practice more and yet the percentages are nearly identical. Can’t wait to read the mental gymnastics used to justify the responses.

So you're equating free throw percentage to talent at basketball? The one time in a game where play is stopped everywhere except for the shooter? The free throw hasn't changed, it's an uncontested shot from 15 feet where the shooter doesn't jump. It makes sense percentages have stayed the same. It has little to do with the skill of the players in the era. Players are better now, they are way more versatile and more athletic during actual gameplay.

If modern athletes are better and more skilled than their 80’s counterparts, FT% should be significantly higher as well but it’s not. It’s actually the perfect measuring stick because FT’s are static. It’s hard to judge eras because rules change, philosophies change, coaching changes etc but FT do not. It’s an unguarded shot 15 ft from the basket. The fact that current FT% are nearly identical to the 70’s and 80’s proves that athletes haven’t improved as much as you think. It’s the game that’s different. It’s the rules that are different and that’s what creates the illusion that modern players are better. FT% suggest otherwise.

[hardenASG13]

FT % in the 1970’s - 75.4%

FT % in the 2010’s - 76.0%

If the modern player is so much more skilled, why have FT% for the league as a whole remained virtually the same over the past 50 years? Athletes are better, training is better, sports science is better, players practice more and yet the percentages are nearly identical. Can’t wait to read the mental gymnastics used to justify the responses.

So you're equating free throw percentage to talent at basketball? The one time in a game where play is stopped everywhere except for the shooter? The free throw hasn't changed, it's an uncontested shot from 15 feet where the shooter doesn't jump. It makes sense percentages have stayed the same. It has little to do with the skill of the players in the era. Players are better now, they are way more versatile and more athletic during actual gameplay.

If modern athletes are better and more skilled than their 80’s counterparts, FT% should be significantly higher as well but they’re not. It’s the perfect measuring stick because FT’s are static. It’s hard to judge eras because rules change, philosophies change, coaching changes etc but FT do not. The fact that current FT% are nearly identical to the 70’s and 80’s proves that athletes haven’t improved as much as you think. It’s the game that’s different.

There are many HS and D3 college players that shoot in the high 80s low 90s on FTs too. They aren't better than professional basketball players because of their FT percentages.

[dj20001]

Not more talented. But the talent is far more maximized and harnessed.

I think the problem is that people consistently misuse the word "talent."

Get what you're saying but there's probably less players reaching their ceiling than ever before. Players have "more" potential because many aren't exposed before getting to the NBA like they were back when players spent 3-4 years in college before going pro. Seems the mindset now is to turn pro and make money before you're "found out"

[dj20001]

Not saying you are wrong but what are you basing this on?

Naz Reid would possibly not even play C in 94-95. 7 footer Kevin Willis averaged 17 pts and 11 rebs while listed as a PF.

T.Hill was center 6-9 240lbs
Reid 6-9 264lbs

Listed as a PF pretty much everywhere I looked online

[og15]

Athletically gifted yes, that’s just a trend as time goes on in general, but the difference is t as much as people make it out to be. I see less players willing or able to play good defense, and understand transition nowadays though.

Athletic ability is actually NOT the thing that would have changed, okay, well the average has changed, but that's due to larger pool, has nothing to do with the average person being more athletic, but there just being more people and more people playing at a high level, which means there are more above average, good and great basketball athletes, meaning the previous average ones get moved down in their level over time. The top ones don't ever get displaced though because they are already the outliers.

Also by athletic ability, we should talk about basketball athletics in total, so everything (speed, quickness, strength, size, length, jumping, balance), not simply run and jump which people seem to limit it to.

The top level of athleticism is exactly the same, top athletes all the way to whenever you want to go back are still top athletes now, but a larger population and pool to choose from would just give more players with the best basketball traits. This can mean that guys who would have made the cut before don't make it anymore.

It's the reality in many professions. Some professional jobs used to have 2.7 GPA's to get in, and now the average is 3.5. Some didn't have licensing exams, now they do. The barrier for entry is higher, no because the best ones then are less smart than the best ones now, but simply because there are a lot more people fighting for those spots, so the average to get in has changed.

FT % in the 1970’s - 75.4%

FT % in the 2010’s - 76.0%

If the modern player is so much more skilled, why have FT% for the league as a whole remained virtually the same over the past 50 years? Athletes are better, training is better, sports science is better, players practice more and yet the percentages are nearly identical. Can’t wait to read the mental gymnastics used to justify the responses.

So you're equating free throw percentage to talent at basketball? The one time in a game where play is stopped everywhere except for the shooter? The free throw hasn't changed, it's an uncontested shot from 15 feet where the shooter doesn't jump. It makes sense percentages have stayed the same. It has little to do with the skill of the players in the era. Players are better now, they are way more versatile and more athletic during actual gameplay.

If modern athletes are better and more skilled than their 80’s counterparts, FT% should be significantly higher as well but it’s not. It’s actually the perfect measuring stick because FT’s are static. It’s hard to judge eras because rules change, philosophies change, coaching changes etc but FT do not. It’s an unguarded shot 15 ft from the basket. The fact that current FT% are nearly identical to the 70’s and 80’s proves that athletes haven’t improved as much as you think. It’s the game that’s different. It’s the rules that are different and that’s what creates the illusion that modern players are better. FT% suggest otherwise.

There's an upper limit on average FT shooting, and it's similar to something like track, where small seconds of improvements are a bigger deal, small percentage improvements after a certain level are a big deal. Just like 3PT shooting, if the whole league goes from 34% to 36%, that's a big deal even if it's "just" 2%, of course that one has more factors than FT, we would have to compare like to like for a more accurate comparison (percentage on catch and shoot vs pulls ups for example).

Decade by decade FT shooting:
50's: 73.2%
60's: 72.5%
70's: 75.4%
80's: 75.8%
90's: 74.6%
00's: 75.4%
10's: 76.0%
20's: 77.8%

We definitely do see an increase in FT shooting percentages, and of course that would only be one aspect of skills that could possibly have changed. FT shooting is such a basic skill and one that for a sport like basketball can peak the earliest in the sport, so it's really not a very good argument to simply say, "look at FT shooting", the end.

Last season the league wide FT% was 78.4%. The top 5 FTA seasons in NBA history are all in the 2020's. Out of the top 10 FTA percentage seasons, only two of them, #8 and #9 were not in from 08-09 or later.

So even if we focus on FT%, just as a no other analysis view, FT% would actually still suggest that the average skill level has improved.

Of course you reach a level when a sport, profession, whatever matures and the amount of improvement you can make to the average becomes very incremental and no longer noticeable.