Did the greatness of Celtics role players devalued Tatum?

[165bows]

Well Al at 26 million is a bad deal. Last year at 10, he was a great value. He's their mostly backup big during the season and moved into their playoff starter. But I'm not really sure what to do with that one. Al's aging well and almost missed the entire 2021 season so that's a concern.

No he was a great deal at that number as a starter on a finals team in ‘22 (Celtics were fourth in the league in total salaries that season). He was terrible two years before that at that number when he played on two different teams with great players. Along with having his worst shooting efficiency seasons by far as well.

In fact his shooting efficiency playing with two different stints with Tatum is way above league average on the whole while his three non-Tatum seasons in his 30s are deeply below average.

But somehow he became great again back in Boston.

I don't know that Al's shooting numbers are even relevant to his impact in all fairness.

But otherwise you're talking about 2020...where he made no sense on that team. That was not only the covid year, but that was Ben Simmons still on Philly with Embiid. And even then his stats were still decent. Then in 2021 his stats were fine. Higher PER and about the same BPM as this year for that matter. He was hurt and played 28 games. Then he went back to Boston.

I don't really see a story here beyond he was over paid slightly on his last deal and he made ZERO sense in Philly where they had Ben Simmons and Embiid. And I don't see what you could even get out of OKC...but his stats look fine. It was just 28 games.

Well sure like I said lots of posters with somewhat uninformed takes on the Celtics here, about stuff that is fairly common knowledge on the celtics board here and elsewhere. And I literally gave you the relevant statistics, it isn't that hard. Every team is looking for an efficient stretch 4/5, which Horford was in Boston and not elsewhere.

Point is Tatum is an elite player that is an elite mold to build around, that's why all these issues that guys like Horford, Jrue, Grant Williams, KP even Brogdon etc etc etc all looked better in Boston than they did other places.

I'll back all that up by saying I was the only guy anywhere clamoring for KP last off season on these boards. Because I was very confident he would look great in Boston. But believe me with all of the diverse opinions out there, there were zero people saying Kristaps Porzingis is the guy I want my team going after this off-season, but now it's a whole different story, everyone knew how great he was.

It is revisionist history though because if he goes somewhere else people know they don't have confidence in him, the second it's Boston, it's like oh they get all the best guys lol.

As cited above he's got the best +/- in the game over his career, this isn't some mystery here, like, name one guy that's left that isn't basically irrelevant at this point.

[dhsilv2]

No he was a great deal at that number as a starter on a finals team in ‘22 (Celtics were fourth in the league in total salaries that season). He was terrible two years before that at that number when he played on two different teams with great players. Along with having his worst shooting efficiency seasons by far as well.

In fact his shooting efficiency playing with two different stints with Tatum is way above league average on the whole while his three non-Tatum seasons in his 30s are deeply below average.

But somehow he became great again back in Boston.

I don't know that Al's shooting numbers are even relevant to his impact in all fairness.

But otherwise you're talking about 2020...where he made no sense on that team. That was not only the covid year, but that was Ben Simmons still on Philly with Embiid. And even then his stats were still decent. Then in 2021 his stats were fine. Higher PER and about the same BPM as this year for that matter. He was hurt and played 28 games. Then he went back to Boston.

I don't really see a story here beyond he was over paid slightly on his last deal and he made ZERO sense in Philly where they had Ben Simmons and Embiid. And I don't see what you could even get out of OKC...but his stats look fine. It was just 28 games.

Well sure like I said lots of posters with somewhat uninformed takes on the Celtics here, about stuff that is fairly common knowledge on the celtics board here and elsewhere. And I literally gave you the relevant statistics, it isn't that hard. Every team is looking for an efficient stretch 4/5, which Horford was in Boston and not elsewhere.

Point is Tatum is an elite player that is an elite mold to build around, that's why all these issues that guys like Horford, Jrue, Grant Williams, KP even Brogdon etc etc etc all looked better in Boston than they did other places.

I'll back all that up by saying I was the only guy anywhere clamoring for KP last off season on these boards. Because I was very confident he would look great in Boston. But believe me with all of the diverse opinions out there, there were zero people saying Kristaps Porzingis is the guy I want my team going after this off-season, but now it's a whole different story, everyone knew how great he was.

It is revisionist history though because if he goes somewhere else people know they don't have confidence in him, the second it's Boston, it's like oh they get all the best guys lol.

As cited above he's got the best +/- in the game over his career, this isn't some mystery here, like, name one guy that's left that isn't basically irrelevant at this point.

I'll take the L on KP all day. But I don't think Jrue looked better in Boston than before. And I don't think AL's issues elsewhere are related to Tatum. They're related to injuries and Embiid/Simmons making zero sense. Maybe we're reading different opinions or we're not filtering obvious (to me) haters out in the same way.

But I've been big on Jrue has not just missed allstar games he deserved but I think he should have a few all NBA selections as well.

Just looking at LEBRON (as it's one of the few data bases of RAPM based data with full sets and easy navigation) Jrue was worse in 2024 than 2023 for example. And Al was better in OKC and Philly than in Boston in 2023 or 2024. I'm not going to die over a freaking RAPM metric here, but it just shows that I don't really see any reason to think Al's impact goes up with Tatum. Maybe he shoots a higher percentage because his role changes, but TS% for a guy like him doesn't really make a meaningful difference. What really matters is how you're defended. Kinda like Danny Green had some stinker shooting playoff runs, but nobody EVER left him open and as a result he was still highly impactful.

[JonFromVA]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=2r3K1qCL2UmIu9zb8OVdDw

Tatum is the super team. This is the first year in his career that they didn’t play like a lottery team with him on the bench, and they were still much, much better with him in the lineup

That's not what the On-Off numbers say. They're really wonky for a team with a supposed superstar that makes his teammates better with the attention he draws and everything else. The Celtics were 1.2pp100 worse with him on the floor than off according to BBR, that improved in the playoffs, but guys like Horford and Holliday were well ahead of him.

It's easy to dismiss because the OnCourt numbers were fantastic, in fact during the regular season the Celtics were still +4.4 when Lamar Stevens was on the floor (worst on the team).

I think it tells us something about the relative efficiency of trying to run everything through your best player and letting him carry your team .vs. having a whole team approach that works for everyone and your best player buying in to it.

Not really a new lesson, but it's easy to pretend it's not necessary when a couple of stars can carry a team far.

Bro maybe re-read the actual post.

I'm taking issue with the point that the Celtics are still way better with Tatum on the floor than off.

But yeah, I'm ignoring the tweet because whoever threw it together doesn't understand that pp100 is how you normalize +/- and on/off numbers for comparison. BBR and 82games both agree the Celtics were amazing when Tatum was on the floor, but slightly better when he wasn't.

[165bows]

I don't know that Al's shooting numbers are even relevant to his impact in all fairness.

But otherwise you're talking about 2020...where he made no sense on that team. That was not only the covid year, but that was Ben Simmons still on Philly with Embiid. And even then his stats were still decent. Then in 2021 his stats were fine. Higher PER and about the same BPM as this year for that matter. He was hurt and played 28 games. Then he went back to Boston.

I don't really see a story here beyond he was over paid slightly on his last deal and he made ZERO sense in Philly where they had Ben Simmons and Embiid. And I don't see what you could even get out of OKC...but his stats look fine. It was just 28 games.

Well sure like I said lots of posters with somewhat uninformed takes on the Celtics here, about stuff that is fairly common knowledge on the celtics board here and elsewhere. And I literally gave you the relevant statistics, it isn't that hard. Every team is looking for an efficient stretch 4/5, which Horford was in Boston and not elsewhere.

Point is Tatum is an elite player that is an elite mold to build around, that's why all these issues that guys like Horford, Jrue, Grant Williams, KP even Brogdon etc etc etc all looked better in Boston than they did other places.

I'll back all that up by saying I was the only guy anywhere clamoring for KP last off season on these boards. Because I was very confident he would look great in Boston. But believe me with all of the diverse opinions out there, there were zero people saying Kristaps Porzingis is the guy I want my team going after this off-season, but now it's a whole different story, everyone knew how great he was.

It is revisionist history though because if he goes somewhere else people know they don't have confidence in him, the second it's Boston, it's like oh they get all the best guys lol.

As cited above he's got the best +/- in the game over his career, this isn't some mystery here, like, name one guy that's left that isn't basically irrelevant at this point.

I'll take the L on KP all day. But I don't think Jrue looked better in Boston than before. And I don't think AL's issues elsewhere are related to Tatum. They're related to injuries and Embiid/Simmons making zero sense. Maybe we're reading different opinions or we're not filtering obvious (to me) haters out in the same way.

But I've been big on Jrue has not just missed allstar games he deserved but I think he should have a few all NBA selections as well.

Just looking at LEBRON (as it's one of the few data bases of RAPM based data with full sets and easy navigation) Jrue was worse in 2024 than 2023 for example. And Al was better in OKC and Philly than in Boston in 2023 or 2024. I'm not going to die over a freaking RAPM metric here, but it just shows that I don't really see any reason to think Al's impact goes up with Tatum. Maybe he shoots a higher percentage because his role changes, but TS% for a guy like him doesn't really make a meaningful difference. What really matters is how you're defended. Kinda like Danny Green had some stinker shooting playoff runs, but nobody EVER left him open and as a result he was still highly impactful.

That's great but you've conveniently ignored that Jrue was firmly cemented in public opinion (and statistical record) as a bad offense guy in the playoffs.

Holiday, Horford, Grant Williams, Malcolm Brogdon, Derrick White all had their career best shooting years with Tatum. The question ultimately is correlation vs. causation. I've provided tons of evidence, as have other posters.

I think a lot of people are just confused on what the discussion is. The 23-24 team was obviously the best team of all these clubs, with more success and a better surrounding cast. But the OP isn't saying what was the best supporting group, it's a discussion of how players impact each other (ie, would other star players do just as well in Tatum's role or better).

So maybe let's actually look at how these actual players played with other guys, it isn't that big of a mystery. KP/Grant Williams weren't as good in Dallas compared to Boston. Horford wasn't as good in PHI/OKC as Boston. So someone take some real examples maybe rather than just talk in circles.

Plenty of other great players in the league but imo there is a mountain of evidence JT is an elite player who one of his elite skills is he is a great mold to build around. He is also someone who has consistently carried mediocre bench lineups for like half a decade to great results, has an elite +/- even when the other good players on his team sit, and has the vast majority of his teammates play better and have more success with him than without him (and this past year notwithstanding, J. Brown was for years the biggest example of this anywhere).

[dolphinatik]

Celtics were blessed with talent and balance. A great problem to have but it doesn't make him less elite. Winning ultimately adds value. His value continues to increase.

[dhsilv2]

Well sure like I said lots of posters with somewhat uninformed takes on the Celtics here, about stuff that is fairly common knowledge on the celtics board here and elsewhere. And I literally gave you the relevant statistics, it isn't that hard. Every team is looking for an efficient stretch 4/5, which Horford was in Boston and not elsewhere.

Point is Tatum is an elite player that is an elite mold to build around, that's why all these issues that guys like Horford, Jrue, Grant Williams, KP even Brogdon etc etc etc all looked better in Boston than they did other places.

I'll back all that up by saying I was the only guy anywhere clamoring for KP last off season on these boards. Because I was very confident he would look great in Boston. But believe me with all of the diverse opinions out there, there were zero people saying Kristaps Porzingis is the guy I want my team going after this off-season, but now it's a whole different story, everyone knew how great he was.

It is revisionist history though because if he goes somewhere else people know they don't have confidence in him, the second it's Boston, it's like oh they get all the best guys lol.

As cited above he's got the best +/- in the game over his career, this isn't some mystery here, like, name one guy that's left that isn't basically irrelevant at this point.

I'll take the L on KP all day. But I don't think Jrue looked better in Boston than before. And I don't think AL's issues elsewhere are related to Tatum. They're related to injuries and Embiid/Simmons making zero sense. Maybe we're reading different opinions or we're not filtering obvious (to me) haters out in the same way.

But I've been big on Jrue has not just missed allstar games he deserved but I think he should have a few all NBA selections as well.

Just looking at LEBRON (as it's one of the few data bases of RAPM based data with full sets and easy navigation) Jrue was worse in 2024 than 2023 for example. And Al was better in OKC and Philly than in Boston in 2023 or 2024. I'm not going to die over a freaking RAPM metric here, but it just shows that I don't really see any reason to think Al's impact goes up with Tatum. Maybe he shoots a higher percentage because his role changes, but TS% for a guy like him doesn't really make a meaningful difference. What really matters is how you're defended. Kinda like Danny Green had some stinker shooting playoff runs, but nobody EVER left him open and as a result he was still highly impactful.

That's great but you've conveniently ignored that Jrue was firmly cemented in public opinion (and statistical record) as a bad offense guy in the playoffs.

Holiday, Horford, Grant Williams, Malcolm Brogdon, Derrick White all had their career best shooting years with Tatum. The question ultimately is correlation vs. causation. I've provided tons of evidence, as have other posters.

I think a lot of people are just confused on what the discussion is. The 23-24 team was obviously the best team of all these clubs, with more success and a better surrounding cast. But the OP isn't saying what was the best supporting group, it's a discussion of how players impact each other (ie, would other star players do just as well in Tatum's role or better).

So maybe let's actually look at how these actual players played with other guys, it isn't that big of a mystery. KP/Grant Williams weren't as good in Dallas compared to Boston. Horford wasn't as good in PHI/OKC as Boston. So someone take some real examples maybe rather than just talk in circles.

Plenty of other great players in the league but imo there is a mountain of evidence JT is an elite player who one of his elite skills is he is a great mold to build around. He is also someone who has consistently carried mediocre bench lineups for like half a decade to great results, has an elite +/- even when the other good players on his team sit, and has the vast majority of his teammates play better and have more success with him than without him (and this past year notwithstanding, J. Brown was for years the biggest example of this anywhere).

Out of curiosity do you have these player's shooting in the playoffs with Tatum on vs off?

That said, the arguments for Tatum as a top tier player is imo more his defense than offense. And similarly, did Boston really excel offensively in the playoffs more than on defense?

[ITYSL]

Well sure like I said lots of posters with somewhat uninformed takes on the Celtics here, about stuff that is fairly common knowledge on the celtics board here and elsewhere. And I literally gave you the relevant statistics, it isn't that hard. Every team is looking for an efficient stretch 4/5, which Horford was in Boston and not elsewhere.

Point is Tatum is an elite player that is an elite mold to build around, that's why all these issues that guys like Horford, Jrue, Grant Williams, KP even Brogdon etc etc etc all looked better in Boston than they did other places.

I'll back all that up by saying I was the only guy anywhere clamoring for KP last off season on these boards. Because I was very confident he would look great in Boston. But believe me with all of the diverse opinions out there, there were zero people saying Kristaps Porzingis is the guy I want my team going after this off-season, but now it's a whole different story, everyone knew how great he was.

It is revisionist history though because if he goes somewhere else people know they don't have confidence in him, the second it's Boston, it's like oh they get all the best guys lol.

As cited above he's got the best +/- in the game over his career, this isn't some mystery here, like, name one guy that's left that isn't basically irrelevant at this point.

Highest full single-season TS% for select players:

Brogdon: 2022-23, Boston
Porzingis: 2023-24, Boston
Grant Williams, 2021-22, Boston
Horford, 2023-24, Boston
Jrue, 2023-24, Boston
D.White, 2023-24, Boston
Theis, 2019-2020, Boston
Wanamaker, 2019-2020, Boston
Kemba, 2019-2020, Boston
Blake Griffin, 2022-23, Boston

[165bows]

I'll take the L on KP all day. But I don't think Jrue looked better in Boston than before. And I don't think AL's issues elsewhere are related to Tatum. They're related to injuries and Embiid/Simmons making zero sense. Maybe we're reading different opinions or we're not filtering obvious (to me) haters out in the same way.

But I've been big on Jrue has not just missed allstar games he deserved but I think he should have a few all NBA selections as well.

Just looking at LEBRON (as it's one of the few data bases of RAPM based data with full sets and easy navigation) Jrue was worse in 2024 than 2023 for example. And Al was better in OKC and Philly than in Boston in 2023 or 2024. I'm not going to die over a freaking RAPM metric here, but it just shows that I don't really see any reason to think Al's impact goes up with Tatum. Maybe he shoots a higher percentage because his role changes, but TS% for a guy like him doesn't really make a meaningful difference. What really matters is how you're defended. Kinda like Danny Green had some stinker shooting playoff runs, but nobody EVER left him open and as a result he was still highly impactful.

That's great but you've conveniently ignored that Jrue was firmly cemented in public opinion (and statistical record) as a bad offense guy in the playoffs.

Holiday, Horford, Grant Williams, Malcolm Brogdon, Derrick White all had their career best shooting years with Tatum. The question ultimately is correlation vs. causation. I've provided tons of evidence, as have other posters.

I think a lot of people are just confused on what the discussion is. The 23-24 team was obviously the best team of all these clubs, with more success and a better surrounding cast. But the OP isn't saying what was the best supporting group, it's a discussion of how players impact each other (ie, would other star players do just as well in Tatum's role or better).

So maybe let's actually look at how these actual players played with other guys, it isn't that big of a mystery. KP/Grant Williams weren't as good in Dallas compared to Boston. Horford wasn't as good in PHI/OKC as Boston. So someone take some real examples maybe rather than just talk in circles.

Plenty of other great players in the league but imo there is a mountain of evidence JT is an elite player who one of his elite skills is he is a great mold to build around. He is also someone who has consistently carried mediocre bench lineups for like half a decade to great results, has an elite +/- even when the other good players on his team sit, and has the vast majority of his teammates play better and have more success with him than without him (and this past year notwithstanding, J. Brown was for years the biggest example of this anywhere).

Out of curiosity do you have these player's shooting in the playoffs with Tatum on vs off?

That said, the arguments for Tatum as a top tier player is imo more his defense than offense. And similarly, did Boston really excel offensively in the playoffs more than on defense?

Well this is my point, that fans of other teams are only primarily familiar with the playoffs. Comparing these are small sample sizes, eg Brogdon getting carried to 7 games of an ECF with a blown out elbow while he put up a 30%/17%/77% shooting and a sweet 5/2/1 line.

The main picture is these guys actually getting there. No one gets to within a game of a finals as a sixth man playing like that without a ton of help. So no I'm not going to quibble about a bunch of small sample sizes when eg homerc posts a 7 year career worth of data just above and other people can't even read it right.

[165bows]

Well sure like I said lots of posters with somewhat uninformed takes on the Celtics here, about stuff that is fairly common knowledge on the celtics board here and elsewhere. And I literally gave you the relevant statistics, it isn't that hard. Every team is looking for an efficient stretch 4/5, which Horford was in Boston and not elsewhere.

Point is Tatum is an elite player that is an elite mold to build around, that's why all these issues that guys like Horford, Jrue, Grant Williams, KP even Brogdon etc etc etc all looked better in Boston than they did other places.

I'll back all that up by saying I was the only guy anywhere clamoring for KP last off season on these boards. Because I was very confident he would look great in Boston. But believe me with all of the diverse opinions out there, there were zero people saying Kristaps Porzingis is the guy I want my team going after this off-season, but now it's a whole different story, everyone knew how great he was.

It is revisionist history though because if he goes somewhere else people know they don't have confidence in him, the second it's Boston, it's like oh they get all the best guys lol.

As cited above he's got the best +/- in the game over his career, this isn't some mystery here, like, name one guy that's left that isn't basically irrelevant at this point.

Highest full single-season TS% for select players:

Brogdon: 2022-23, Boston
Porzingis: 2023-24, Boston
Grant Williams, 2021-22, Boston
Horford, 2023-24, Boston
Jrue, 2023-24, Boston
D.White, 2023-24, Boston
Theis, 2019-2020, Boston
Wanamaker, 2019-2020, Boston
Kemba, 2019-2020, Boston
Blake Griffin, 2022-23, Boston

JRich very close to landing on this list also.

The one guy that really didn't fit this pattern was Dennis Schroder, who I thought was going to be totally washed when he left, and kind of bounced back.

[ItsDanger]

Probably. If Tatum was a more efficient player, Boston would smoke the competition even more so. His style seems to mesh with his teammates improving them in an odd way.

[cupcakesnake]

Probably. If Tatum was a more efficient player, Boston would smoke the competition even more so. His style seems to mesh with his teammates improving them in an odd way.

He's good enough to draw a double, and a willing enough playmaker to pass out of that double quickly. It sends the defense scrambling and kickstarts the Celtics 3-point machine. It's super functional and sort of unglamorous because it means Tatum is setting up plays that don't result in assists, and he's rarely the beneficiary of the easy shots the offense produces.

I'm not saying Tatum is elite at this. There are a handful offensive initiators who both score and play make better, and do so in less favorable offensive situations. He does it well enough though, to make Boston an elite offense, so he doesn't deserve the criticism he gets, imo. He's out there doing his job at a very high level on offense, while being one of the most complete defensive forwards in the NBA.

Like you say, if Tatum was more efficient (if his jumper was more potent, or his drives stronger, or his passing reads higher level), Boston would be even better and Tatum would be in that Kawhi/Lebron/Durant category as an offensive wing.

[The Servant]

The real questions is could they have won a chip with Franz Wagner or Josh Giddey in place of Tatum?

I feel this one didn't get the attention it deserved. Pretty sure they would win one with Franz Wagner in Tatums place given how stacked they were at every position.

[Curmudgeon]

Not a chance. Tatum's defense and rebounding are what sets him above so many other players. Games are won (and lost) at both ends.

[SelfishPlayer]

Why are the Celtics role players "great" but Denver's role players are being carried by Jokic?

[brackdan70]

Probably. If Tatum was a more efficient player, Boston would smoke the competition even more so. His style seems to mesh with his teammates improving them in an odd way.

How are we defining efficiency here?
I mean I would look at USG% in relation to TS%, rebound %, assist%, Blk %, Steal % and maybe more importantly overall impact stats.
There are 5 guys that had better TS% with usage % above Tatum for example.
If we look at impact stats Tatum is in the top 10 or better across the board.
Am I missing something on the meaning of efficiency.

[LarsV8]

Why are the Celtics role players "great" but Denver's role players are being carried by Jokic?

Because its true?

[tamaraw08]

Why are the Celtics role players "great" but Denver's role players are being carried by Jokic?

Because its true?

maybe because Jokic lead his team with nearly all statistical categories esp with his efficiencies like 70TS% as compared to Tatum who had the 3rd lowest TS% in their 15 man roster for their title year?
Jokic lead in rebounds, blocks, 9.5 assists etc.
I understand that Tatum is a much better defender but Jrue and White have been pretty good ( at least top 3 for their respective squads)even before joining this team.

[SelfishPlayer]

Why are the Celtics role players "great" but Denver's role players are being carried by Jokic?

Because its true?

maybe because Jokic lead his team with nearly all statistical categories esp with his efficiencies like 70TS% as compared to Tatum who had the 3rd lowest TS% in their 15 man roster for their title year?
Jokic lead in rebounds, blocks, 9.5 assists etc.
I understand that Tatum is a much better defender but Jrue and White have been pretty good ( at least top 3 for their respective squads)even before joining this team.

Jamal Murray playoff stats?

[tamaraw08]

Because its true?

maybe because Jokic lead his team with nearly all statistical categories esp with his efficiencies like 70TS% as compared to Tatum who had the 3rd lowest TS% in their 15 man roster for their title year?
Jokic lead in rebounds, blocks, 9.5 assists etc.
I understand that Tatum is a much better defender but Jrue and White have been pretty good ( at least top 3 for their respective squads)even before joining this team.

Jamal Murray playoff stats?

Murray was awesome with scoring last year but only had 4.9 WS compared to Jokic’s 15.0.
Ill take Brown’s overall impact esp on defense plus White’s and Jrue’s value over KCP and MPJ.

[tsherkin]

Probably. If Tatum was a more efficient player, Boston would smoke the competition even more so. His style seems to mesh with his teammates improving them in an odd way.

He's good enough to draw a double, and a willing enough playmaker to pass out of that double quickly. It sends the defense scrambling and kickstarts the Celtics 3-point machine. It's super functional and sort of unglamorous because it means Tatum is setting up plays that don't result in assists, and he's rarely the beneficiary of the easy shots the offense produces.

He seems a very coachable player with a pretty good head for the game in general. He's not, like, the Greg Maddux of basketball or anything, but he works within the scheme, he reads reasonably well and he makes good plays. Most criticisms, such as they are, of Tatum orbit scoring efficiency and his heavy variance from too many 3s. He's quite a good player on the whole.

I'm not saying Tatum is elite at this. There are a handful offensive initiators who both score and play make better, and do so in less favorable offensive situations. He does it well enough though, to make Boston an elite offense, so he doesn't deserve the criticism he gets, imo.

I dunno, I find most of the criticism is a reaction to overrating him more than anything else, which is fair. He isn't a first-tier offensive guy, or perhaps S-tier for MMO fans. But that also isn't a sin, because those are persistently the best offensive players of the generation, right? He's pretty good, and he makes up some for his relative weakness (poor word, but you take my point) with the diversity of his game. He's clearly functional as a focal player, in any case.

Like you say, if Tatum was more efficient (if his jumper was more potent, or his drives stronger, or his passing reads higher level), Boston would be even better and Tatum would be in that Kawhi/Lebron/Durant category as an offensive wing.

Ayep. That's the tier he isn't in right now. That's far from shameful, for obvious reasons.