At what point do Lakers fans owe Darvin Ham an apology?

[Edrees]

At the point the Lakers injure one of his family members or steal money from him. Then an apology is definitely owed.

Lebron is a year older and has considerably declined this year, and the west is overall better this year. that's why you get the same record so far. Also tougher schedule to start the season than last year.

[doogie_hauser]

They owe Westbrook a bigger apology than Ham imo.

They treated Russ shabbily, whereas at least Ham got a nice multi million dollar payout from the Lakers.

[M2J]

At the point the Lakers injure one of his family members or steal money from him. Then an apology is definitely owed.

Lebron is a year older and has considerably declined this year, and the west is overall better this year. that's why you get the same record so far. Also tougher schedule to start the season than last year.

Doesn't take away the fact that Ham got the most out of Davis last year too. LeBron been showing his age since 2021...still great.

Russell sucked for Ham too, but I would say overall the Lakers have better shooting this year.

Ham got them to the WCF after an injury plagued year from the play in and it is some level of accomplishment to have won the NBA cup. I think they would've advanced last year, but Jokic and Murray are a horrendous matchup.

But ultimately, he lost LeBron and Davis... So will JJ

[Lo Wang]

He literally went with the same SL for a decent stretch and got heavily critiqued for it (Reaves-Cam-Lebron-Rui-AD)

I understand your point, but JJ's Xs and Os are completely different. He took out DLo to give more touches to Reeves and to hand over the play making duties to Lebron. The point of attack is AD. Now they have a sniper in Knetch. This team is by far a much better team despite the record.

They currently hold a negative point differential and are a bottom 5 defensive team. By almost every measure, the Lakers are currently worse

Absolutely hilarious to me that JJ is getting credit and praise for the exact same thing Ham was critiqued for.

I understand your conclusion, but I disagree. Like I said, stats don't tell the whole story, plus we still have a lot of games left to be played. Despite the bad stats, I've noticed a considerable difference in the Lakers:

1. AD is an MVP candidate. The decision to make him the primary scorer is long over due.

2. Lebron is the main facilitator which makes the Lakers better. They won a championship once. Why Ham deviated from this and gave the facilitation to DLo is beyond me. I hate to say it but I think DLo is lazy; I wouldn't be surprise if he smokes weed and only shows up to practice to work on his game and not any other way. Lebron is a fantastic PG (which is a metric Lebron stans should use in the goat debate *hint). He is such a threat when he's the primary ball handler.

[og15]

This just goes to show, as it always does, the PLAYERS are ultimately responsible for what happens on the court. The coach is just a guy that calls plays when there's a time out or stoppage in play. He has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome but is the one always held responsible. It's BS and always will be.

The Lakers will come and go in whatever fashion so long as LeBron James is still on the roster and calling the shots. He doesn't have the nickname of "LeGM" without reason.

Redick, Ham, whoever doesn't matter. Even if Phil Jackson came back, the outcome wouldn't change a bit.

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This is swinging the pendulum all the way to the other side lol. The coach does have impact on outcomes, it's in no way zero percent. The problem isn't whether coaches having impact on outcomes, it is people who think coaches have the majority impact on outcomes.

Coaches set up your offensive and defensive system, they give the game plan for specific games, they are people managers, they manage rotations, they manage adjustments, these things have impact on games, especially when many games are won or lost on small margins. But a coach can't make an average to below average roster great. Coaches can elevate a roster about one level above their ability or limit them about one level below their ability, but that's the extent of it. A meh coach won't make a contending roster non contending, and a great coach won't make a bottom lottery team a playoff team.

[Sane]

I can't believe an ex-player/podcaster with 0 years experience in management or coaching can have - with just 20 or so games of preparation - the same win rate as a guy in his 3rd year coaching the Lakers after working his way up the coaching ladder.

[MiltownMadness]

Oh wow didnt expect this much angst from Lakers fans.....gearing up to turn on their hc

[SkyBill40]

This just goes to show, as it always does, the PLAYERS are ultimately responsible for what happens on the court. The coach is just a guy that calls plays when there's a time out or stoppage in play. He has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome but is the one always held responsible. It's BS and always will be.

The Lakers will come and go in whatever fashion so long as LeBron James is still on the roster and calling the shots. He doesn't have the nickname of "LeGM" without reason.

Redick, Ham, whoever doesn't matter. Even if Phil Jackson came back, the outcome wouldn't change a bit.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

This is swinging the pendulum all the way to the other side lol. The coach does have impact on outcomes, it's in no way zero percent. The problem isn't whether coaches having impact on outcomes, it is people who think coaches have the majority impact on outcomes.

Coaches set up your offensive and defensive system, they give the game plan for specific games, they are people managers, they manage rotations, they manage adjustments, these things have impact on games, especially when many games are won or lost on small margins. But a coach can't make an average to below average roster great. Coaches can elevate a roster about one level above their ability or limit them about one level below their ability, but that's the extent of it. A meh coach won't make a contending roster non contending, and a great coach won't make a bottom lottery team a playoff team.

I value your opinion in the same measure as I hope you value mine. I stand on this mere fact: When is the last time a coach made a basket? He can draw up a play, outline a scheme, or assess the opponent... but those are the limits of what can be done and all that is moot if the players fail to execute.

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[ConSarnit]

I understand your point, but JJ's Xs and Os are completely different. He took out DLo to give more touches to Reeves and to hand over the play making duties to Lebron. The point of attack is AD. Now they have a sniper in Knetch. This team is by far a much better team despite the record.

They currently hold a negative point differential and are a bottom 5 defensive team. By almost every measure, the Lakers are currently worse

Absolutely hilarious to me that JJ is getting credit and praise for the exact same thing Ham was critiqued for.

I understand your conclusion, but I disagree. Like I said, stats don't tell the whole story, plus we still have a lot of games left to be played. Despite the bad stats, I've noticed a considerable difference in the Lakers:

1. AD is an MVP candidate. The decision to make him the primary scorer is long over due.

2. Lebron is the main facilitator which makes the Lakers better. They won a championship once. Why Ham deviated from this and gave the facilitation to DLo is beyond me. I hate to say it but I think DLo is lazy; I wouldn't be surprise if he smokes weed and only shows up to practice to work on his game and not any other way. Lebron is a fantastic PG (which is a metric Lebron stans should use in the goat debate *hint). He is such a threat when he's the primary ball handler.

Here’s the issue with #2. Yes, Lebron is a great facilitator. He’s also 40 years old and can’t be tasked with running the team full time. The Lakers and Ham knew this. It’s why they brought in Westbrook. The theory was right (relieving Lebron of creation duties) but the fit was bad. We’re now seeing what happens when you put it all on 40 year old LeBron. His defense sucks because he doesn’t have the energy for both sides of the ball. So now the Lakers have 1 good defender (Davis) because LeBron doesn’t have the energy to defend. The Lakers needed DLo to take creation duties because putting it all on Lebron doesn’t work anymore. DLo isn’t an ideal option but the other option is what you’re seeing now: the Lakers defense sucks because they were already hard up for defenders and now LeBron doesn’t have the energy to defend. If you want LeBron to defend you can’t have him running the offense full time.

[The High Cyde]

I was always there for the cooked ham memes, bring em back dammit

[og15]

This just goes to show, as it always does, the PLAYERS are ultimately responsible for what happens on the court. The coach is just a guy that calls plays when there's a time out or stoppage in play. He has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome but is the one always held responsible. It's BS and always will be.

The Lakers will come and go in whatever fashion so long as LeBron James is still on the roster and calling the shots. He doesn't have the nickname of "LeGM" without reason.

Redick, Ham, whoever doesn't matter. Even if Phil Jackson came back, the outcome wouldn't change a bit.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

This is swinging the pendulum all the way to the other side lol. The coach does have impact on outcomes, it's in no way zero percent. The problem isn't whether coaches having impact on outcomes, it is people who think coaches have the majority impact on outcomes.

Coaches set up your offensive and defensive system, they give the game plan for specific games, they are people managers, they manage rotations, they manage adjustments, these things have impact on games, especially when many games are won or lost on small margins. But a coach can't make an average to below average roster great. Coaches can elevate a roster about one level above their ability or limit them about one level below their ability, but that's the extent of it. A meh coach won't make a contending roster non contending, and a great coach won't make a bottom lottery team a playoff team.

I value your opinion in the same measure as I hope you value mine. I stand on this mere fact: When is the last time a coach made a basket? He can draw up a play, outline a scheme, or assess the opponent... but those are the limits of what can be done and all that is moot if the players fail to execute.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

I suppose it depends on what you mean, because your statements are possibly contradictory, or possibly not.

Maybe you're saying that the coach has no impact on the outcomes of the plays themselves once you get on the court, and all he can do it set things up, and that is true.

If you're saying that coaches have no impact on the outcome of teams in general, then you're contradicting your own statement by saying all he does is ____ and then listing things that can affect the outcome of the game.

Of course the coach can't directly do anything on the court and is limited to only preparation, who is put on the court and managing things, but that's kind of obvious already.

[GeorgeSears]

Doug Collins used to say :"Beat the team you're supposed to beat and let's see where you are against the others."

The Lakers are beating teams they're supposed to beat and they've had some tough losses against the "others."

[Godymas]

Good god the Lakers suck

LeGM drafting Bronny is the NBA equivalent of Joe Biden pardoning his son

[canada_dry]

He has a considerably lesser version of lebron James thst he's working with.

The results might be similar but the actual coaching and system implemented looks much more promising.

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[sikma42]

He has a considerably lesser version of lebron James thst he's working with.

The results might be similar but the actual coaching and system implemented looks much more promising.

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Ham got them to the WCF his first year. This team won’t make the playoffs. The outcomes won’t be similar.

Also, Lebron looks the same. The offense looks different and doesn’t play to Brons strengths…i


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[metalinguss]

lol. Tell me you don't watch Lakers' basketball without telling me you don't watch Lakers' basketball.

Weird. Apparently I woke up and it’s 2021 again.

[ScrantonBulls]

They owe Westbrook a bigger apology than Ham imo.

They treated Russ shabbily, whereas at least Ham got a nice multi million dollar payout from the Lakers.

Russ is ****. The only people that owe apologies are the braindead GMs that keep giving him chances.

[sikma42]

https://youtu.be/a0al1fdqmcw?si=bUr4XJgtGCOmFaby

He sounds in over his head, which is expected bc he has 0 coaching experience. This interview sounds like someone who shouldn’t be a head coach in the NBA. Thanks for explaining how coaching works and saying how “clear” you were on your defensive schemes. Looks like there was a communication issue. Weird, last year this same team was much better there.


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[Capn'O]

This ham thread is kind of a turkey imo.

This post made me hungry.

[zimpy27]

Anyone who thinks Ham deserves an apology, they actually deserves their team to be coached by Ham.

Dude was the worst coach I've seen.