What franchise is in the worst position moving forward?

[blind prophet]

Voted Kings

Pretty much the owner is the reason.

Until proven otherwise.

[Liver_Pooty]

Suns and Blazers in my opinion. Hornets will be fine in a year or two with Miller and Lamelo.

Assuming they stay healthy.

[The Master]

The Lakers definitely will be irrelevant for the next 5-10 years unless Jeanie sells the team (which is unlikely)

Lakers can trade AD (who will be 34yo, but may still have a decent value, considering prices on the market nowadays) and role players in 2027 (last year they own a draft pick to Jazz) and start a rebuilding then: it's not a great situation nor their front office is capable of running an organization competently, but that was the case for the last decade as well and they definitely weren't irrelevant (at the end of the day, they won a championship).

Big market nowadays isn't as big asset as it was in the past, that's true, the biggest name (not necessarily the best player) in the last 5 offseasons changing a team as a free agent was ... I don't know, Paul George last year? - so teams building strategy around utilizing cap space on the market are and will be naive. That being said, cap space and draft assets may again be enough for Lakers to build a championship-level team, it's not like Lakers market is completely irrelevant. Not saying it will be a case, but their situation isn't that bad as long as they control their long term draft picks. Clippers are in much worse situation.

Actually, besides GM being dumb and owner not willing to spend that much money, the question is whether Lakers will be patient enough to go into long term rebuilding 2-3 years from now. For example, if I were a GM of the Lakers, I wouldn't trade any future draft picks to strengthen current team (unless there's somehow an unlikely opportunity to acquire a star) and this is something that may be upsetting for majority of the Lakers fanbase. The optimal scenario for them is to be good-to-mediocre with current core, wait until LeBron retires/leaves - and go into the rebuilding in 2027, unless somehow they acquire a 3rd star with their assets (unlikely). But Lakers fans will crucify Pelinka and Buss if they go into this direction, lol.

[UcanUwill]

The Chicago Bulls

We're on a road to nowhere

Reminded me of a thread I made, ''do you Bullieve''

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2119211&hilit=do+you+Bullieve

And alto I let fellow posters decide whenever they liked new Bulls or not, even made a poll, but I implied that I Bullieve a little (tho I now I see that I myself voted for option 3 in apoll), I bumped the thread when they were first in the East. I was not the only one who bullieved, but man, in hindsight, what a disaster.

[UcanUwill]

The Lakers definitely will be irrelevant for the next 5-10 years unless Jeanie sells the team (which is unlikely)

Lakers can trade AD (who will be 34yo, but may still have a decent value, considering prices on the market nowadays) and role players in 2027 (last year they own a draft pick to Jazz) and start a rebuilding then: it's not a great situation nor their front office is capable of running an organization competently, but that was the case for the last decade as well and they definitely weren't irrelevant (at the end of the day, they won a championship).

Big market nowadays isn't as big asset as it was in the past, that's true, the biggest name (not necessarily the best player) in the last 5 offseasons changing a team as a free agent was ... I don't know, Paul George last year? - so teams building strategy around utilizing cap space on the market are and will be naive. That being said, cap space and draft assets may again be enough for Lakers to build a championship-level team, it's not like Lakers market is completely irrelevant. Not saying it will be a case, but their situation isn't that bad as long as they control their long term draft picks. Clippers are in much worse situation.

Actually, besides GM being dumb and owner not willing to spend that much money, the question is whether Lakers will be patient enough to go into long term rebuilding 2-3 years from now. For example, if I were a GM of the Lakers, I wouldn't trade any future draft picks to strengthen current team (unless there's somehow an unlikely opportunity to acquire a star) and this is something that may be upsetting for majority of the Lakers fanbase. The optimal scenario for them is to be good-to-mediocre with current core, wait until LeBron retires/leaves - and go into the rebuilding in 2027, unless somehow they acquire a 3rd star with their assets (unlikely). But Lakers fans will crucify Pelinka and Buss if they go into this direction, lol.

Lakers will get some Superstar who will force his way to that franchice, like always, Lakers will not be in worst position ever because of that reason. The only fear I would have is maybe the fact top players are international now, and International players do not necessarily care which American market they play for, but even then I am not sure if thats entirely true.

[Ito]

Heat n bulls kuz they gon try to improve n just gon suck

the other obvious choices are just lost causes

[Anticon]

Raptors are in fine shape, provided you aren't banking on Barnes being that guy.

Their rebuild won't be a fast one though and may be more like a 5-8 year process (similar to the Magic) than a quick turnaround.

[jbk1234]

Voted Kings

Pretty much the owner is the reason.

Until proven otherwise.

Yeah, I have to agree with this as a lapsed Browns fan. It's just impossible to overcome a meddlesome owner who fails to appreciate the limits if his knowledge outside his area of expertise, lacks the requisite patience to build the right way, and is super impulsive.

[One_and_Done]

Raptors are in fine shape, provided you aren't banking on Barnes being that guy.

Their rebuild won't be a fast one though and may be more like a 5-8 year process (similar to the Magic) than a quick turnaround.

A 5 to 8 year rebuild process is a really long time. If they're really in the cellar that long then they would be a strong candidate here.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Raptors are in fine shape, provided you aren't banking on Barnes being that guy.

Their rebuild won't be a fast one though and may be more like a 5-8 year process (similar to the Magic) than a quick turnaround.

Funny you give that example, because Barnes reminds me a lot of the Orlando Magic Aaron Gordon. Someone the fans will praise because of “potential” and will continually lie to themselves that he’s a player you can build around until (conveniently) he’s ultimately moved.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Top 5

1) Kings (ownership)
2) Suns (flexibility)
3) Bulls (ownership/management)
4) Pelicans (failed rebuild)
5) Raptors (Masai thinks he’s light years smarter than everyone else)

[Vampirate]

Raptors are in fine shape, provided you aren't banking on Barnes being that guy.

Their rebuild won't be a fast one though and may be more like a 5-8 year process (similar to the Magic) than a quick turnaround.

Funny you give that example, because Barnes reminds me a lot of the Orlando Magic Aaron Gordon. Someone the fans will praise because of “potential” and will continually lie to themselves that he’s a player you can build around until (conveniently) he’s ultimately moved.

It all depends on who we draft this year, good luck in a good draft can change your fortunes very fast as you found out in the last few years.

Basically if we draft our own Paolo (in talent), Barnes would pair really well with that player. Still a big if if we could get lucky in the draft but you never know.

[Silvie Lysandra]

I have Washington, Charlotte and Phoenix.

In one way, Washington and Charlotte don't look that bad, but they generally feel limited by some combination of market/ownership/FO that will keep them down for a while.

Phoenix has more competence now, but they're old, expensive and owe a lot of draft capital. There's major concern their owner isn't great at big picture planning. They also aren't located in Los Angelas which gives the Lakers and (to a lesser degree) Clippers an advantage.

Baffled at the Wiz being picked here. We look really bad this season but its mostly because Grunfeld/Sheppard left us in such a massive hole that it's going to take years to climb out. We legitimately got ONE rotation-quality player out of the last 5 or so drafts, and we traded him because by the time we're competitive he'll want a big (20-25m deal). The previous regime also resigned Beal to a NTC, making him impossible to trade. Winger/Dawkins are OKC pedigree, and while their moves may not work out per se, they're doing the right things to build a contender and I'm happy with that. We're very excited about Bilal (his year 2 numbers compare pretty favorably to Jaylen Brown's year 2 numbers; Jaylen was a year older to boot). Sarr is a project but he's showing a few things (and we're letting him live his dream of being a face up shooting center on offense for now If Bailey/Flagg/Harper live up to the hype, then we might be interesting in 2 years as all these guys grow into their roles. We'll see for sure. But Ithis is what we've always wanted, and it's looking at least hopeful.

As for the poll, it's the Suns (the wheels haven't even come completely off Durant yet, but they will in the next 4 years, meanwhile Beal hasn't played over 60 games since 2019) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bulls. The scary part is that there's a very, very real chance they'll be in the lottery while we're in play-in contention or better. Those 2028 and 2030 pick swaps in particular look like potential top 5 picks, especially if Booker decides to leave.

[nate33]

The answer is Phoenix. They have no chance at a championship because their big three will not stay healthy. At the same time, they've put so much into this team that there's no chance they'll pull the plug this season, which means whatever value they could conceivably get from Durant will be diminished that much more as he gets a year older. By next year, he will be an injury-prone player being paid $54M on an expiring deal. That's not going to return THAT much in pick capital.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Raptors are in fine shape, provided you aren't banking on Barnes being that guy.

Their rebuild won't be a fast one though and may be more like a 5-8 year process (similar to the Magic) than a quick turnaround.

Funny you give that example, because Barnes reminds me a lot of the Orlando Magic Aaron Gordon. Someone the fans will praise because of “potential” and will continually lie to themselves that he’s a player you can build around until (conveniently) he’s ultimately moved.

It all depends on who we draft this year, good luck in a good draft can change your fortunes very fast as you found out in the last few years.

Basically if we draft our own Paolo (in talent), Barnes would pair really well with that player. Still a big if if we could get lucky in the draft but you never know.

I mean there’s currently no players projected to be in the same talent tier of someone like Paolo (including Flagg) so not sure if luck has anything to do with it.

Of course these are projections and players occasionally play above them, but I’m not sure it really matters or has any correlation with Barnes as a player.

Barnes isn’t good enough to single handily lead a team. He also hasn’t shown the ability to be a good Robin to a Batman (Barrett in this scenario) that actually translates to wins.

He’s also not like a Franz that is a 1A option playing 1B because of situation/role.

He should be treated as a glue guy, again similar to AG. However, you don’t ever want to pay your glue guy who thinks they’re your franchise corner stone max money. That in itself is a recipe for failure.

I personally think after all said and done with Torontos rebuild Barnes will not be on the final iteration of what that looks like.

[One_and_Done]

Funny you give that example, because Barnes reminds me a lot of the Orlando Magic Aaron Gordon. Someone the fans will praise because of “potential” and will continually lie to themselves that he’s a player you can build around until (conveniently) he’s ultimately moved.

It all depends on who we draft this year, good luck in a good draft can change your fortunes very fast as you found out in the last few years.

Basically if we draft our own Paolo (in talent), Barnes would pair really well with that player. Still a big if if we could get lucky in the draft but you never know.

I mean there’s currently no players projected to be in the same talent tier of someone like Paolo (including Flagg) so not sure if luck has anything to do with it.

Of course these are projections and players occasionally play above them, but I’m not sure it really matters or has any correlation with Barnes as a player.

Barnes isn’t good enough to single handily lead a team. He also hasn’t shown the ability to be a good Robin to a Batman (Barrett in this scenario) that actually translates to wins.

He’s also not like a Franz that is a 1A option playing 1B because of situation/role.

He should be treated as a glue guy, again similar to AG. However, you don’t ever want to pay your glue guy who thinks they’re your franchise corner stone max money. That in itself is a recipe for failure.

I personally think after all said and done with Torontos rebuild Barnes will not be on the final iteration of what that looks like.

Yeh, I'm inclined to agree. I think Paolo, Franz, and even Suggs, are all better pieces to build a contender around. There are alot of rebuilding teams like the Wizards and Raptors who don't have anyone as good as those guys... and those 3 guys project to only be the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best players on a genuine contender.

[Vampirate]

Funny you give that example, because Barnes reminds me a lot of the Orlando Magic Aaron Gordon. Someone the fans will praise because of “potential” and will continually lie to themselves that he’s a player you can build around until (conveniently) he’s ultimately moved.

It all depends on who we draft this year, good luck in a good draft can change your fortunes very fast as you found out in the last few years.

Basically if we draft our own Paolo (in talent), Barnes would pair really well with that player. Still a big if if we could get lucky in the draft but you never know.

I mean there’s currently no players projected to be in the same talent tier of someone like Paolo (including Flagg) so not sure if luck has anything to do with it.

Of course these are projections and players occasionally play above them, but I’m not sure it really matters or has any correlation with Barnes as a player.

Barnes isn’t good enough to single handily lead a team. He also hasn’t shown the ability to be a good Robin to a Batman (Barrett in this scenario) that actually translates to wins.

He’s also not like a Franz that is a 1A option playing 1B because of situation/role.

He should be treated as a glue guy, again similar to AG. However, you don’t ever want to pay your glue guy who thinks they’re your franchise corner stone max money. That in itself is a recipe for failure.

I personally think after all said and done with Torontos rebuild Barnes will not be on the final iteration of what that looks like.

I can understand where it's coming from, but I find the Gordon comparison to be lazy, Barnes is straight up better offensively.

With Barnes it's just going to come down to the three point shot if he can have any success like he did last year.

So far this year it's basically the thing that's dragging down his percentages over all. He's actually scoring well inside the Arc, but that won't matter if he's taking 5.9 threes at a 28% clip.

[Anticon]

Raptors are in fine shape, provided you aren't banking on Barnes being that guy.

Their rebuild won't be a fast one though and may be more like a 5-8 year process (similar to the Magic) than a quick turnaround.

A 5 to 8 year rebuild process is a really long time. If they're really in the cellar that long then they would be a strong candidate here.

That's the outside estimate, but realistically I do think it'll take time to find the right mix of players to create a real contender again. Free agency isn't really a factor in Toronto, so it'll all have to come from the draft and trades.

Arguably the assets from the first period of contention took from 2006 to 2013 to accumulate, so 5-8 years is reasonable.

I don't see that as a bad position though, as it's just the nature of the market and management decisions are encouraging since they finally accepted defeat with the old core. In the limited opportunities the front office has had to draft recently, they've done very well. So I see them still as having a very high success rate, but finding the right mix for contention will take time even with that.

[One_and_Done]

Raptors are in fine shape, provided you aren't banking on Barnes being that guy.

Their rebuild won't be a fast one though and may be more like a 5-8 year process (similar to the Magic) than a quick turnaround.

A 5 to 8 year rebuild process is a really long time. If they're really in the cellar that long then they would be a strong candidate here.

That's the outside estimate, but realistically I do think it'll take time to find the right mix of players to create a real contender again. Free agency isn't really a factor in Toronto, so it'll all have to come from the draft and trades.

Arguably the assets from the first period of contention took from 2006 to 2013 to accumulate, so 5-8 years is reasonable.

I don't see that as a bad position though, as it's just the nature of the market and management decisions are encouraging since they finally accepted defeat with the old core. In the limited opportunities the front office has had to draft recently, they've done very well. So I see them still as having a very high success rate, but finding the right mix for contention will take time even with that.

I mean, maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure I see Barnes as a starter on a most contenders. The problem is you really have to start him, because otherwise you're wasting his D. It rarely makes sense to bring defensive players off the bench. I can't think of many contenders who would be trying to start Barnes, just because of the fit issues his skillset causes (mainly the lack of a 3pt shot).

[Anticon]

A 5 to 8 year rebuild process is a really long time. If they're really in the cellar that long then they would be a strong candidate here.

That's the outside estimate, but realistically I do think it'll take time to find the right mix of players to create a real contender again. Free agency isn't really a factor in Toronto, so it'll all have to come from the draft and trades.

Arguably the assets from the first period of contention took from 2006 to 2013 to accumulate, so 5-8 years is reasonable.

I don't see that as a bad position though, as it's just the nature of the market and management decisions are encouraging since they finally accepted defeat with the old core. In the limited opportunities the front office has had to draft recently, they've done very well. So I see them still as having a very high success rate, but finding the right mix for contention will take time even with that.

I mean, maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure I see Barnes as a starter on a most contenders. The problem is you really have to start him, because otherwise you're wasting his D. It rarely makes sense to bring defensive players off the bench. I can't think of many contenders who would be trying to start Barnes, just because of the fit issues his skillset causes (mainly the lack of a 3pt shot).

Yup, and that's why a non linear rebuild where they cycle through different mixes of players looks most likely to me. I still haven't landed on my clear view of Barnes but definitely the offensive side of things creates some fit issues. As one poster notes it wouldn't be surprising if the final iteration doesn't include him.