How come none of the young stars have grabbed the torch from the older guys?

[dhsilv2]

NBA just posted the merch sales from 1st half of the season. Steph and Bron remain extremely popular but there are a bunch of popular younger players ready to take to lead.

Really weird that Sha is so low...

[Doctor MJ]

I think people should remember that there was literally no good basketball reason not to be utterly infatuated with Hakeem Olajuwon when he played. Dude was quick-twitch as all get out and made all sorts of spectacular plays of all types.

But dude was Nigerian, so he was less popular for Americans than Patrick Ewing and David Robinson who were inferior players with at the same position without any kind of exciting personality. (I understand that Ewing wasn't born in the US, but he immigrated to the US at an early age and had a name that didn't scream "foreign".)

[Doctor MJ]

NBA just posted the merch sales from 1st half of the season. Steph and Bron remain extremely popular but there are a bunch of popular younger players ready to take to lead.

Really weird that Sha is so low...

I think that will change quickly if the mainstream becomes convinced that Shai is an MVP-level layer leading a possible dynasty.

I think Shai's got 2 things really working against him:

1. Understated personality - which won't necessarily be an issue if he has enough success and looks cool (we should remember that in the classic Nike adds, Jordan wasn't the one doing the talking).

2. Delayed start to stardom. When a guy gets hyped as a superstar right out the gate and has quick success, he becomes popular. When he doesn't really hit until after people have gotten excited about a new set of younger guys, his popularity is often a slow burn growth even after his emergence.

Speaking as a guy who collects basketball cards, I'd say Luka Doncic is still a bigger deal in the hobby than Nikola Jokic because people going nuts hyping Luka as the next great one and so even after Jokic ended up being the guy winning the MVPs, people were still invested in the idea of the prodigy becoming the best player.

[The4thHorseman]

NBA just posted the merch sales from 1st half of the season. Steph and Bron remain extremely popular but there are a bunch of popular younger players ready to take to lead.

Really weird that Sha is so low...

Some might not want to wear a jersey with a name that has 37 letters in it.

[bledredwine]

Because aside from Jokic, Luka and Shai,

they suck balls. The IQ or versatility of offensive moves is so low. One of those is missing from every so called American “star”

And basically no one has the above qualities and is a two-way player.

No one else is Kobe or Lebron worthy. Jokic and Luka are the two, really.

No one here will ever admit when the NBA is going through a weak transition, because they are all fans of the present, but we are certainly in one, when it comes to franchise players competing. There are little to no exciting star matchups because no one is skilled and talented enough aside from those two and quality aggressive defense is not encouraged anyway.

Because of this, those two and then teams with good talent all around (Cavs Celtics) are the ones ruling the league.

[Lalouie]

you need the gonads to do it

it should be jokic or luka or sga, but ant is the quotable player. jokic is quiet, luka is quiet(off court), and sga is quiet
plus "sga" is a really dumb acrnym

also, you're going to get a down period in the aftermath of lebron and curry anyway.
also all of today's players are asked to do the same thing, so by definition they all look the same - hey man this is what happens in parity. it's the homogenization of the game, and when that happens it filters down to the players. you can argue about the special skillset displayed by sga/luka/jokic and i won't argue, but under the umbrella of the zeitgeist of today's play EVERYBODY plays the same with only their size being the differentiating factor

wemby is the only savior of the nba. he's tall, he says his mind, he's likeable, and he's good - forget the french part

[cgf]

How many rings do the old guard have in the past 5 years?

[Big J]

He's extremely marketable...he also doesn't want any part in it. But dude...everyone loves the guy.

He’s marketable to nerds and sports junkies, but not the average person. He’s too reserved, and not really controversial. His brothers have made bigger headlines than he has and they don’t even play.

Causal people love watching him play. They love that he's humble. You're massively out of touch. ESPN is just terrible at their jobs. Look at Curry...ESPN didn't market him, but kids just loved him so much they had to just accept it.

Curry is marketable because kids think they can be just like him when they grow up. He’s small and not super athletic. He even looked like a college kid into his 30s. Believe me if Joker was as popular as you say he would be generating clicks on his own. Algorithms are designed to push content towards audiences that will engage them. The average Joe just doesn’t care enough about a 7 foot introvert from Serbia. It’s not just ESPN we’re talking about. It’s algorithms and AI.

[dhsilv2]

I think people should remember that there was literally no good basketball reason not to be utterly infatuated with Hakeem Olajuwon when he played. Dude was quick-twitch as all get out and made all sorts of spectacular plays of all types.

But dude was Nigerian, so he was less popular for Americans than Patrick Ewing and David Robinson who were inferior players with at the same position without any kind of exciting personality. (I understand that Ewing wasn't born in the US, but he immigrated to the US at an early age and had a name that didn't scream "foreign".)

How much more popular was Robinson? I don't recall there being a huge gap there. Ewing was on the knicks and played in the north east in college too.

[Doctor MJ]

Because aside from Jokic, Luka and Shai,

they suck balls. The IQ or versatility of offensive moves is so low. One of those is missing from every so called American “star”

And basically no one has the above qualities and is a two-way player.

No one else is Kobe or Lebron worthy. Jokic and Luka are the two, really.

No one here will ever admit when the NBA is going through a weak transition, because they are all fans of the present, but we are certainly in one, when it comes to franchise players competing. There are little to no exciting star matchups because no one is skilled and talented enough aside from those two and quality aggressive defense is not encouraged anyway.

Because of this, those two and then teams with good talent all around (Cavs Celtics) are the ones ruling the league.

Eh, so the strategic arms race in the NBA is moving faster than ever before with players getting better at shooting, better at running, and better at improvised decision making. Basically, if you think the basketball you're watching now is at a nadir, then you're not understanding what you're watching.

Does that mean we're having a bunch of LeBron level talents emerge from the US? No, he's singular. We haven't seen any American, and arguably anyone from anywhere, emerge who is as good as him.

Kobe? Lots of guys playing better than him now. Only debate is how much better Kobe could be if he grew up in a later era and embraced the paradigm shifts he resisted back in the day. Any notion he was literally playing the game more effectively back then than guys are now is based on fixating on particular things you're impressed by, and not backed up by the data.

[dhsilv2]

I think that will change quickly if the mainstream becomes convinced that Shai is an MVP-level layer leading a possible dynasty.

I think Shai's got 2 things really working against him:

1. Understated personality - which won't necessarily be an issue if he has enough success and looks cool (we should remember that in the classic Nike adds, Jordan wasn't the one doing the talking).

2. Delayed start to stardom. When a guy gets hyped as a superstar right out the gate and has quick success, he becomes popular. When he doesn't really hit until after people have gotten excited about a new set of younger guys, his popularity is often a slow burn growth even after his emergence.

Speaking as a guy who collects basketball cards, I'd say Luka Doncic is still a bigger deal in the hobby than Nikola Jokic because people going nuts hyping Luka as the next great one and so even after Jokic ended up being the guy winning the MVPs, people were still invested in the idea of the prodigy becoming the best player.

The thing with SGA is that he's close enough to American. Lets be real, if you don't have an accent people really move on fast. He's the right size..not giant, not super small. And he's athletic. He really checks the boxes to do well.

Now I get with Jokic he'll never be Lebron. But I mean that in a good and bad way. He'll never have the level of hype but he's also not a guy people dislike. If I wanted a guy to push my mass made product...man he's the obvious choice. But if I've got some edgy new thing...yeah, I'll look elsewhere.

[Roger Murdock]

The simple answer is you are mid-remembering and overassigning relevance to something that happened because Kobe became a legend after MJ retired

Kobe played Bulls Jordan 4 times, and scored 5, 5, 20, and 33 (in a 20 point loss). One game he popped off and did great and yeah he was confident and had swagger. But it didn’t really matter and only became a thing because he had a great career after. There are 50+ players in the NbA right now that are better than 1997 Kobe was.

Andrew Bynum was throwing elbows and dunking on Shaq and it was a big story but nobody gives a **** because he flamed out. Same type of game as the Kobe v MJ thing but nobody remembers because it’s meaningless in the long run.

[Doctor MJ]

I think people should remember that there was literally no good basketball reason not to be utterly infatuated with Hakeem Olajuwon when he played. Dude was quick-twitch as all get out and made all sorts of spectacular plays of all types.

But dude was Nigerian, so he was less popular for Americans than Patrick Ewing and David Robinson who were inferior players with at the same position without any kind of exciting personality. (I understand that Ewing wasn't born in the US, but he immigrated to the US at an early age and had a name that didn't scream "foreign".)

How much more popular was Robinson? I don't recall there being a huge gap there. Ewing was on the knicks and played in the north east in college too.

Robinson was an absolute marketing phenomenon as a rookie and through his first few years when the NBA was desperately trying to hype a next generation star. It was only when he failed to reach the highest ceiling that people became apathetic toward.

Re: Ewing was on the Knicks. Yes but Ewing was a considerably bigger star in college too.

Re: Ewing played out East in college. Yes but that's not actually that big of a deal when becoming a star. On the other hand, the Georgetown Hoya phenomenon of the time WAS a big deal...but that basically didn't exist before Ewing and didn't last after Ewing.

[dhsilv2]

He’s marketable to nerds and sports junkies, but not the average person. He’s too reserved, and not really controversial. His brothers have made bigger headlines than he has and they don’t even play.

Causal people love watching him play. They love that he's humble. You're massively out of touch. ESPN is just terrible at their jobs. Look at Curry...ESPN didn't market him, but kids just loved him so much they had to just accept it.

Curry is marketable because kids think they can be just like him when they grow up. He’s small and not super athletic. He even looked like a college kid into his 30s. Believe me if Joker was as popular as you say he would be generating clicks on his own. Algorithms are designed to push content towards audiences that will engage them. The average Joe just doesn’t care enough about a 7 foot introvert from Serbia. It’s not just ESPN we’re talking about. It’s algorithms and AI.

We're not talking ticky tok and insta ho? That's not marketing, that's the ability of people to push their own agenda's. If sports channels talk about likable people, like Jokic. Fans will watch. No, he's not going to get clicks like Lebron...so what? Sportscenter is an hour long. They have plenty of room to talk about others and build up the products they sell.

Remember Nike let Curry slip away because they didn't see him as athletic enough for their brand. These marketing power houses are just lazy.

[Woodsanity]

He’s marketable to nerds and sports junkies, but not the average person. He’s too reserved, and not really controversial. His brothers have made bigger headlines than he has and they don’t even play.

Causal people love watching him play. They love that he's humble. You're massively out of touch. ESPN is just terrible at their jobs. Look at Curry...ESPN didn't market him, but kids just loved him so much they had to just accept it.

Curry is marketable because kids think they can be just like him when they grow up. He’s small and not super athletic. He even looked like a college kid into his 30s. Believe me if Joker was as popular as you say he would be generating clicks on his own. Algorithms are designed to push content towards audiences that will engage them. The average Joe just doesn’t care enough about a 7 foot introvert from Serbia. It’s not just ESPN we’re talking about. It’s algorithms and AI.

Big men were never as marketable.

Even Shaq with his charisma was never nearly as marketable as Kobe. Fans prefer guards or wings. They can't relate to a 7 foot behemoth as well.

Someone like Ant would work if he was a far better player but he simply isn't good enough.

Also helps if you are American, we have zero American superstars. Tatum isn't on that level and he is corny/boring.

[dhsilv2]

I think people should remember that there was literally no good basketball reason not to be utterly infatuated with Hakeem Olajuwon when he played. Dude was quick-twitch as all get out and made all sorts of spectacular plays of all types.

But dude was Nigerian, so he was less popular for Americans than Patrick Ewing and David Robinson who were inferior players with at the same position without any kind of exciting personality. (I understand that Ewing wasn't born in the US, but he immigrated to the US at an early age and had a name that didn't scream "foreign".)

How much more popular was Robinson? I don't recall there being a huge gap there. Ewing was on the knicks and played in the north east in college too.

Robinson was an absolute marketing phenomenon as a rookie and through his first few years when the NBA was desperately trying to hype a next generation star. It was only when he failed to reach the highest ceiling that people became apathetic toward.

Re: Ewing was on the Knicks. Yes but Ewing was a considerably bigger star in college too.

Re: Ewing played out East in college. Yes but that's not actually that big of a deal when becoming a star. On the other hand, the Georgetown Hoya phenomenon of the time WAS a big deal...but that basically didn't exist before Ewing and didn't last after Ewing.

I dunno, Melo for example going to the finals with Syracuse was huge. Being a college start in the north east is a thing. But you do have to be exceptional.

I do recall more Robinson commercials so I guess that's a good point with him vs Hakeem.

[Doctor MJ]

I think that will change quickly if the mainstream becomes convinced that Shai is an MVP-level layer leading a possible dynasty.

I think Shai's got 2 things really working against him:

1. Understated personality - which won't necessarily be an issue if he has enough success and looks cool (we should remember that in the classic Nike adds, Jordan wasn't the one doing the talking).

2. Delayed start to stardom. When a guy gets hyped as a superstar right out the gate and has quick success, he becomes popular. When he doesn't really hit until after people have gotten excited about a new set of younger guys, his popularity is often a slow burn growth even after his emergence.

Speaking as a guy who collects basketball cards, I'd say Luka Doncic is still a bigger deal in the hobby than Nikola Jokic because people going nuts hyping Luka as the next great one and so even after Jokic ended up being the guy winning the MVPs, people were still invested in the idea of the prodigy becoming the best player.

The thing with SGA is that he's close enough to American. Lets be real, if you don't have an accent people really move on fast. He's the right size..not giant, not super small. And he's athletic. He really checks the boxes to do well.

Now I get with Jokic he'll never be Lebron. But I mean that in a good and bad way. He'll never have the level of hype but he's also not a guy people dislike. If I wanted a guy to push my mass made product...man he's the obvious choice. But if I've got some edgy new thing...yeah, I'll look elsewhere.

I'll just piggy back on this and say:

After Jordan, the expectation is that you should look like a male supermodel, and nobody in the NBA looks less like a model than Jokic.

Luka adopting a personality at a young clearly inspired by NBA stars helps him relative to Jokic, but still, Fat Luka & Gru-Face are just not going to get the same kind of mainstream acclaim as someone who actually looks sexy.

I think this is a thing that basketball is really going to have to deal with: Basketball became for men's sports what tennis is for women's sport, the sport with the hot athletes. That's all well and good so long as there's reason to expect a correlation between sport ability and attractiveness, which worked so long as a fast-twitch body was indeed the way to be an MVP player.

What we're seeing now though is that while physical talent is nice, an outlier basketball brain trumps all, and that really can't be expected to resonate the same way with people who know nothing about the sport.

[Wingy]

Joker took it with his play.

He’s a competitor when on the floor, but he’s clearly not on the psychopathic Jordan, Kobe kind of level where he’s going to let everyone know he’s that guy, cause, he doesn’t care as much as those extreme outliers.

[Big J]

Causal people love watching him play. They love that he's humble. You're massively out of touch. ESPN is just terrible at their jobs. Look at Curry...ESPN didn't market him, but kids just loved him so much they had to just accept it.

Curry is marketable because kids think they can be just like him when they grow up. He’s small and not super athletic. He even looked like a college kid into his 30s. Believe me if Joker was as popular as you say he would be generating clicks on his own. Algorithms are designed to push content towards audiences that will engage them. The average Joe just doesn’t care enough about a 7 foot introvert from Serbia. It’s not just ESPN we’re talking about. It’s algorithms and AI.

We're not talking ticky tok and insta ho? That's not marketing, that's the ability of people to push their own agenda's. If sports channels talk about likable people, like Jokic. Fans will watch. No, he's not going to get clicks like Lebron...so what? Sportscenter is an hour long. They have plenty of room to talk about others and build up the products they sell.

Remember Nike let Curry slip away because they didn't see him as athletic enough for their brand. These marketing power houses are just lazy.

Dude likeabilty does not equal ratings. Controversy does. There is nothing controversial about Jokic. The reason Bron gets big ratings is because most people despise him.

[Showdown]

If the media needs players to be badboy standup comedians with hollywood looks to be marketable then they failed at their jobs misserably. The whole point of marketing is to promote something that might not be noticed otherwise.
For example: Giannis is the good old rags to riches story with an attractive looking, attractive playing guy that has an interesting nickname. My senile neibghour could market him to the general public.
Jokic is an ex fat kid from a wartorn country that managed to will himself to greatness in a field that nobody would expect hin to dominate thanks to his incredible feel for the game and elite hand-eye coordination. There are tons of introverted, fat kids in the US that he could become a rolemodel if marketed correctly.
Its obvious that the media doesnt want to market them for some reason. But the lack of "marketability" is not one of them.

Serbia isn't wartorn country just like today Russia isn't wartorn country.