SGA has more Win Shares than Luka

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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#61 » by Godymas » Thu Feb 6, 2025 5:19 pm

Archx wrote:
Godymas wrote:Now WS/48 does break it down to the minutes each player plays, and Luka does lead Tatum in that regard in the regular season, but as soon as the playoffs come around Luka's winning impact seems to drop and he's playing on Tatum's level. The difference here, though, is that Tatum is a true two way player. It makes it easier to win with Jayson Tatum in the playoffs and therefore makes it much more enticing to keep Tatum over Luka.


Advance stats can be twisted in all directions if you want. Look at SGA first few years when OKC had bad teams, his advance numbers weren't impressive at all. They took off when OKC actually surrounded him with players.

Why does Luka lead Tatum (PLAYOFFS) WS/48 and ON/OFF career then? How does Luka fall off in playoffs?

And btw, i hope you know this "analytic" was made by a guy long time ago who was also then fired by the Mavs. He made his own model (XARPM metric) just to discredit him.

RunOKC wrote:SGA easily outplayed Luka in last years playoffs. Blame the injuries or whatever but it happened.


Yeah, just sucks for SGA that Luka closed the series with 3 straight triple doubles. Including two 30pt triple doubles with a W. And also had a better DFG%, so :dontknow:


It’s funny how you explained the argument for why Dallas let go of Luka without realizing it.

Luka’s WS was because he was surrounded by good players, the difference is SGA is peaking higher than Luka.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#62 » by Archx » Thu Feb 6, 2025 5:28 pm

Godymas wrote:
Archx wrote:
Godymas wrote:Now WS/48 does break it down to the minutes each player plays, and Luka does lead Tatum in that regard in the regular season, but as soon as the playoffs come around Luka's winning impact seems to drop and he's playing on Tatum's level. The difference here, though, is that Tatum is a true two way player. It makes it easier to win with Jayson Tatum in the playoffs and therefore makes it much more enticing to keep Tatum over Luka.


Advance stats can be twisted in all directions if you want. Look at SGA first few years when OKC had bad teams, his advance numbers weren't impressive at all. They took off when OKC actually surrounded him with players.

Why does Luka lead Tatum (PLAYOFFS) WS/48 and ON/OFF career then? How does Luka fall off in playoffs?

And btw, i hope you know this "analytic" was made by a guy long time ago who was also then fired by the Mavs. He made his own model (XARPM metric) just to discredit him.

RunOKC wrote:SGA easily outplayed Luka in last years playoffs. Blame the injuries or whatever but it happened.


Yeah, just sucks for SGA that Luka closed the series with 3 straight triple doubles. Including two 30pt triple doubles with a W. And also had a better DFG%, so :dontknow:


It’s funny how you explained the argument for why Dallas let go of Luka without realizing it.

Luka’s WS was because he was surrounded by good players, the difference is SGA is peaking higher than Luka.


If you think those early Mavs teams were good then :noway: And also, using WS's argument to discredit someone's impact is also an interesting choice.

On top of it all if you really believe this is why they traded him... i don't know. It's like parents telling their 5yo kid that Santa does exist.

I honestly don't care if you think SGA is the better player but like i said, using silly arguments when the results are the complete opposite.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#63 » by Woodsanity » Thu Feb 6, 2025 5:38 pm

Godymas wrote:There was a recent article shared by a former Mavericks staffer and analyst that covered some insider knowledge on how the Mavericks organization truly felt about Luka (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1iin3k4/engelmann_the_luka_doncic_trade_my_perspective_as/).

The article is behind a paywall, but the Reddit link above summarizes some of the points. Basically the Mavericks were running their own "internal" models to evaluate how good Luka was, and per their models, they were finding that Luka's raw numbers were not actually leading the team to wins as much as you would think.

Now, I know, it's mind boggling to say "the guy leads the league in scoring and averages a triple double and is 25, BUT we don't think he can really be that much of a winner".

I think most people defaulted to putting Luka as that top 3-5 guy consistently because the #s were so eye popping, the winning was present, but I want to ask you a very legitimate question, and you need to actually think hard about it. Would you rather have Luka Doncic or Jayson Tatum? The correct answer, for those that watch basketball, is Jayson Tatum.

Why Jayson Tatum? Well it goes back to win share and what it truly says about a player. One thing that gets ignored in the WS stat is the DWS vs. OWS. I think that the bias and breakdown here is very telling of how easy a player is to build around. A player that has a more balanced DWS and OWS where the #s are maybe 60/40 (which is what Tatum has) is INFINITELY easier to build a contender around than a player that has a heavily biased OWS with a much lesser DWS (which is what Luka has). Tatum in his prime gives about 10.5 WS consistently now for 2 years and this year he's on pace for about 11 WS. Luka is actually comparable. Last year with his insane usage and minutes he gave 12 WS and before that it was about 10.5. Now WS/48 does break it down to the minutes each player plays, and Luka does lead Tatum in that regard in the regular season, but as soon as the playoffs come around Luka's winning impact seems to drop and he's playing on Tatum's level. The difference here, though, is that Tatum is a true two way player. It makes it easier to win with Jayson Tatum in the playoffs and therefore makes it much more enticing to keep Tatum over Luka.

In a redraft of the 2018 NBA draft, it used to be Luka was unanimously #1. Today, I think a lot of people might truthfully lean towards SGA. Prime SGA is a much different beast from Luka. He beats Luka in so many efficiency metrics and his defense for a guard is truly elite averaging an absurd 2 steals and 1 block a game. SGA's WS is through the roof, and the thing about SGA is, he's only getting started. Up until last year, SGA was on relatively average to horrendous teams. There was no amazing regular season to be padding those #s up for him. Luka has been on a consistently good Mavericks team basically since 2020-2021. Sure there have been some bumps, but the overall winning has been consistently more and yet SGA is already leading Luka in win shares. SGA shows true superstar level when you look at metrics like his PER, his WS/48, etc. It's a tier above what Luka has ever peaked at, the age gap is negligible.

The reality is Luka is a continuation of prime James Harden, but so far he's been worse than prime James Harden. The #s are insane, they are hall of fame caliber, but to build around such a high usage player suffers from the same difficulties that building around prime James Harden suffered. Obviously, you can build a contending team around prime James Harden, but then you're relying on the 3 to fall from those role players and when the stats deliver an outlier, you can find yourself in a game 7 against the Warriors at home with an all time great collapse.

I had this theory about Luka, something that I've discussed in the past. The theory is that Luka could one day be a 32 year old veteran in the NBA and end up with no rings, no MVPs, just All NBA and scoring accolades. I think that the reality is Dallas believed that with Luka on a supermax it was very likely that they could see a world where Luka has that sort of career and ultimately who is going to get the blame? The FO for "not building around their generational talent" when maybe, just maybe, the issue was that the "generational" talent was a highly flawed player that was not super efficient, or had issues defending. There is another controversial all time great, but the difference is he was able to become a winner, that player's name is Kobe Bryant. Kobe is controversial, his contributions to winning something feel overrated. He put up #s but the advanced metrics didn't love him as much, he had a loyal fan base in LA, and because of the pull of LA and his mimicry of Jordan's game they were able to get a contender that won with Kobe at the helm after the belief that Shaq carried Kobe for those early years. As time has gone on, people look back at Kobe and they say "well he wasn't that awesome, but he meant a lot of the culture and LA". I think Luka, had he stayed in Dallas, would have been similar, but I agree in some ways with the logic of the Mavs FO, it would have been a lot harder to win with Luka.

Now does that mean the trade was suddenly redeemed or "good"? No, because in this business having a face of your franchise that was raised by the franchise is more valuable for a big market like Dallas than winning out right. Luka was set to be a permanent fixture in the city of Dallas, his impact would have gone well beyond what he did on and off the court. Young children in the city of Dallas were already growing up loving Luka and trying to play the game of basketball to be like him. Being a legendary player for a city is incredible, the love that those players get, the fandom. However, in the city of Dallas is another very questionable sports team and I have a feeling that the Mavericks took a long hard look at a team like the Dallas Cowboys that has gone on to pay their star level, but not superstar level QB a ton of money and have gone on to have struggles finishing or winning despite great regular seasons, and the Mavericks felt that this was the obvious path for their organizations and therefore decided that the right decision to make here was to go all in and win now or forever regret keeping Dallas has a city of glory days.


You can argue that SGA is better than Luka but saying Tatum is better is lolworthy.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#64 » by NBA4Lyfe » Thu Feb 6, 2025 5:53 pm

Godymas wrote:There was a recent article shared by a former Mavericks staffer and analyst that covered some insider knowledge on how the Mavericks organization truly felt about Luka (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1iin3k4/engelmann_the_luka_doncic_trade_my_perspective_as/).

The article is behind a paywall, but the Reddit link above summarizes some of the points. Basically the Mavericks were running their own "internal" models to evaluate how good Luka was, and per their models, they were finding that Luka's raw numbers were not actually leading the team to wins as much as you would think.

Now, I know, it's mind boggling to say "the guy leads the league in scoring and averages a triple double and is 25, BUT we don't think he can really be that much of a winner".

I think most people defaulted to putting Luka as that top 3-5 guy consistently because the #s were so eye popping, the winning was present, but I want to ask you a very legitimate question, and you need to actually think hard about it. Would you rather have Luka Doncic or Jayson Tatum? The correct answer, for those that watch basketball, is Jayson Tatum.

Why Jayson Tatum? Well it goes back to win share and what it truly says about a player. One thing that gets ignored in the WS stat is the DWS vs. OWS. I think that the bias and breakdown here is very telling of how easy a player is to build around. A player that has a more balanced DWS and OWS where the #s are maybe 60/40 (which is what Tatum has) is INFINITELY easier to build a contender around than a player that has a heavily biased OWS with a much lesser DWS (which is what Luka has). Tatum in his prime gives about 10.5 WS consistently now for 2 years and this year he's on pace for about 11 WS. Luka is actually comparable. Last year with his insane usage and minutes he gave 12 WS and before that it was about 10.5. Now WS/48 does break it down to the minutes each player plays, and Luka does lead Tatum in that regard in the regular season, but as soon as the playoffs come around Luka's winning impact seems to drop and he's playing on Tatum's level. The difference here, though, is that Tatum is a true two way player. It makes it easier to win with Jayson Tatum in the playoffs and therefore makes it much more enticing to keep Tatum over Luka.

In a redraft of the 2018 NBA draft, it used to be Luka was unanimously #1. Today, I think a lot of people might truthfully lean towards SGA. Prime SGA is a much different beast from Luka. He beats Luka in so many efficiency metrics and his defense for a guard is truly elite averaging an absurd 2 steals and 1 block a game. SGA's WS is through the roof, and the thing about SGA is, he's only getting started. Up until last year, SGA was on relatively average to horrendous teams. There was no amazing regular season to be padding those #s up for him. Luka has been on a consistently good Mavericks team basically since 2020-2021. Sure there have been some bumps, but the overall winning has been consistently more and yet SGA is already leading Luka in win shares. SGA shows true superstar level when you look at metrics like his PER, his WS/48, etc. It's a tier above what Luka has ever peaked at, the age gap is negligible.

The reality is Luka is a continuation of prime James Harden, but so far he's been worse than prime James Harden. The #s are insane, they are hall of fame caliber, but to build around such a high usage player suffers from the same difficulties that building around prime James Harden suffered. Obviously, you can build a contending team around prime James Harden, but then you're relying on the 3 to fall from those role players and when the stats deliver an outlier, you can find yourself in a game 7 against the Warriors at home with an all time great collapse.

I had this theory about Luka, something that I've discussed in the past. The theory is that Luka could one day be a 32 year old veteran in the NBA and end up with no rings, no MVPs, just All NBA and scoring accolades. I think that the reality is Dallas believed that with Luka on a supermax it was very likely that they could see a world where Luka has that sort of career and ultimately who is going to get the blame? The FO for "not building around their generational talent" when maybe, just maybe, the issue was that the "generational" talent was a highly flawed player that was not super efficient, or had issues defending. There is another controversial all time great, but the difference is he was able to become a winner, that player's name is Kobe Bryant. Kobe is controversial, his contributions to winning something feel overrated. He put up #s but the advanced metrics didn't love him as much, he had a loyal fan base in LA, and because of the pull of LA and his mimicry of Jordan's game they were able to get a contender that won with Kobe at the helm after the belief that Shaq carried Kobe for those early years. As time has gone on, people look back at Kobe and they say "well he wasn't that awesome, but he meant a lot of the culture and LA". I think Luka, had he stayed in Dallas, would have been similar, but I agree in some ways with the logic of the Mavs FO, it would have been a lot harder to win with Luka.

Now does that mean the trade was suddenly redeemed or "good"? No, because in this business having a face of your franchise that was raised by the franchise is more valuable for a big market like Dallas than winning out right. Luka was set to be a permanent fixture in the city of Dallas, his impact would have gone well beyond what he did on and off the court. Young children in the city of Dallas were already growing up loving Luka and trying to play the game of basketball to be like him. Being a legendary player for a city is incredible, the love that those players get, the fandom. However, in the city of Dallas is another very questionable sports team and I have a feeling that the Mavericks took a long hard look at a team like the Dallas Cowboys that has gone on to pay their star level, but not superstar level QB a ton of money and have gone on to have struggles finishing or winning despite great regular seasons, and the Mavericks felt that this was the obvious path for their organizations and therefore decided that the right decision to make here was to go all in and win now or forever regret keeping Dallas has a city of glory days.











This video was made about Luka discussing the very same thing the op highlighted about Luka



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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#65 » by madmaxmedia » Thu Feb 6, 2025 5:58 pm

Xatticus wrote:I don't know what the implication is here. Dallas got reamed in that trade regardless of whether or not you believe that Luka is better than SGA or Tatum.


It's just a little more insight into the perspective of the Dallas FO leading up to this. Combine those sorts of analytics, and their frustration with Luka's lack of conditioning, nagging injuries, and you can at least see why they might actually want to trade him.

But it's the return that's of course most problematic. This trade apparently took a couple of weeks of discussion between Mavs and Lakers inner circles. Lakers obviously nailed it beyond belief in the negotiation department. Even if AD was settled on as the prime target, the Mavs still should have gotten more assets with AD in the trade. (whether AD gives them a better chance of winning now is of course a whole 'nother question...)
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#66 » by HotelVitale » Thu Feb 6, 2025 6:05 pm

Xatticus wrote:I don't know what the implication is here. Dallas got reamed in that trade regardless of whether or not you believe that Luka is better than SGA or Tatum.


Yeah we wouldn't be thrilled if SGA got traded for an injury-prone 31 year-old and a late 1st either. Not sure why Luka maybe not being the clear best younger guy in the world makes the trade any brighter.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#67 » by Biff » Thu Feb 6, 2025 6:21 pm

Surprised this was in regular NBA sub rather than Nbadiscussion, which is a far better sub.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#68 » by Doctor MJ » Thu Feb 6, 2025 7:00 pm

Godymas wrote:There was a recent article shared by a former Mavericks staffer and analyst that covered some insider knowledge on how the Mavericks organization truly felt about Luka (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1iin3k4/engelmann_the_luka_doncic_trade_my_perspective_as/).

The article is behind a paywall, but the Reddit link above summarizes some of the points. Basically the Mavericks were running their own "internal" models to evaluate how good Luka was, and per their models, they were finding that Luka's raw numbers were not actually leading the team to wins as much as you would think.

Now, I know, it's mind boggling to say "the guy leads the league in scoring and averages a triple double and is 25, BUT we don't think he can really be that much of a winner".

I think most people defaulted to putting Luka as that top 3-5 guy consistently because the #s were so eye popping, the winning was present, but I want to ask you a very legitimate question, and you need to actually think hard about it. Would you rather have Luka Doncic or Jayson Tatum? The correct answer, for those that watch basketball, is Jayson Tatum.

Why Jayson Tatum? Well it goes back to win share and what it truly says about a player. One thing that gets ignored in the WS stat is the DWS vs. OWS. I think that the bias and breakdown here is very telling of how easy a player is to build around. A player that has a more balanced DWS and OWS where the #s are maybe 60/40 (which is what Tatum has) is INFINITELY easier to build a contender around than a player that has a heavily biased OWS with a much lesser DWS (which is what Luka has). Tatum in his prime gives about 10.5 WS consistently now for 2 years and this year he's on pace for about 11 WS. Luka is actually comparable. Last year with his insane usage and minutes he gave 12 WS and before that it was about 10.5. Now WS/48 does break it down to the minutes each player plays, and Luka does lead Tatum in that regard in the regular season, but as soon as the playoffs come around Luka's winning impact seems to drop and he's playing on Tatum's level. The difference here, though, is that Tatum is a true two way player. It makes it easier to win with Jayson Tatum in the playoffs and therefore makes it much more enticing to keep Tatum over Luka.

In a redraft of the 2018 NBA draft, it used to be Luka was unanimously #1. Today, I think a lot of people might truthfully lean towards SGA. Prime SGA is a much different beast from Luka. He beats Luka in so many efficiency metrics and his defense for a guard is truly elite averaging an absurd 2 steals and 1 block a game. SGA's WS is through the roof, and the thing about SGA is, he's only getting started. Up until last year, SGA was on relatively average to horrendous teams. There was no amazing regular season to be padding those #s up for him. Luka has been on a consistently good Mavericks team basically since 2020-2021. Sure there have been some bumps, but the overall winning has been consistently more and yet SGA is already leading Luka in win shares. SGA shows true superstar level when you look at metrics like his PER, his WS/48, etc. It's a tier above what Luka has ever peaked at, the age gap is negligible.


So, my main thing here is that the title you chose about Win Shares really buries the lede. I like WS as a first-pass metric but I wouldn't use them to argue between stars like this.

On the other hand, someone from the Mavs talking about the studies he did for them, their findings, and him personally advocating for trading Luka is a much bigger deal.

Other details I'd point out:

1. Engelmann emphasizes that he's with everyone else in thinking the Mavs didn't get nearly enough for Luka.
2. Engelmann's name is a known one in RAPM circles, and so it makes sense that someone who focuses on +/- data would rate Luka lower than those who focus on P/R/A.
3. I personally have some significant disagreements with Engelmann on something of a philosophical level so I don't want to imply I stand behind whatever he believes, but since he's still on the "they didn't get enough for Luka" side of things, I don't actually see anything from him that's particularly unreasonable here.
4. However I think we should also note that Engelmann was probably never that powerful of a voice within the Mavs FO. Maybe I'm wrong there, but the vast majority of FO analytics guys were pretty far down the pecking order.

Regarding who I'd pick #1 in a 2018 re-draft, then yeah, I'd go with Shai at this point, but maybe that will change against if Luka starts developing LeBron-like habits while being on the Lakers with LeBron.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#69 » by Edrees » Thu Feb 6, 2025 7:09 pm

What Luka's done in the playoffs is way more impressive than anything Shai has done. but Im okay with the idea taht Shai is a better regular season player.

Luka comparison to James Harden is so far off the mark. Luka raises his game in playoffs where harden is a choker whos numbers get worse across the board in playoffs. If I had to pick 2 players who are the complete opposite I would pick these 2 due to this reason alone.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#70 » by runtmc » Thu Feb 6, 2025 7:23 pm

Mavrelous wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:yes, I think that's a fair take. we have our very own dedicated poster in the forum which has been arguing for years about Luka's pedestrian advanced stats.I think the only way a deal like this would even have been concieved is the result of analytically driven voices (or voice?) in the Dallas organization making those same claims and obviously - those voices have found an ear in Nico


Luka had better EPM (PBP dominated advanced stat) and BPM (cumulative advanced stat) than SGA last year and beat him in the PO, no one before the series started was saying Luka should win because he had better supporting cast, OKC were heavy favourites.
The mental gymnastics used in this thread to discredit hm aren't new though, but htey are pretty unique to a player with his level of success, individually and on team level.


This is true, but the problem with that is last year is last year. Luka had the best season of his career, so did Shai, and the SGA/Luka comparison was close -- SGA had him beat in WS/48 and PER for example. Both of them were playing at an MVP level. Luka has fallen off a bit this year, but he's still in that 4-8 type range this season.

The difference is that while Luka regressed somewhat, this year SGA made a leap and has ascended to literal god mode. SGA is just better at this point, and its not particularly close. Its just not really fair to Luka to compare him, or anyone for that matter, to SGA this season.

You could make a very strong case that SGA is having the greatest season ever in NBA history this year, and that's not hyperbole -- and that's with Jokic arguably *also* having one of the greatest seasons ever.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#71 » by Johnny Tomala » Thu Feb 6, 2025 11:22 pm

Dončić is better and has already been in 2 Conference Finals and 1 NBA Finals. SGA lost first series against decent opponent he faced while being a leader of the Thunder.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#72 » by MrBigShot » Fri Feb 7, 2025 12:18 am

Luka at his best is better than SGA
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#73 » by AussieRules » Fri Feb 7, 2025 8:13 am

And this is why you play games on the court as opposed to a spreadsheet. It’s only in here that I hear that Kobe is overrated, I don’t know why yall always have to bring Kobe’s name into nonsense analytical jargon like this. Reminds me of how Hollinger used to predict that the Jazz would beat the lakers and win western conference finals because well Kobe is inefficient, only for Utah to get embarrassingly dismantled in the playoffs by same ol’ inefficient Kobe every single time they met :lol:
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#74 » by Yuri36 » Fri Feb 7, 2025 8:20 am

runtmc wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:yes, I think that's a fair take. we have our very own dedicated poster in the forum which has been arguing for years about Luka's pedestrian advanced stats.I think the only way a deal like this would even have been concieved is the result of analytically driven voices (or voice?) in the Dallas organization making those same claims and obviously - those voices have found an ear in Nico


Luka had better EPM (PBP dominated advanced stat) and BPM (cumulative advanced stat) than SGA last year and beat him in the PO, no one before the series started was saying Luka should win because he had better supporting cast, OKC were heavy favourites.
The mental gymnastics used in this thread to discredit hm aren't new though, but htey are pretty unique to a player with his level of success, individually and on team level.


This is true, but the problem with that is last year is last year. Luka had the best season of his career, so did Shai, and the SGA/Luka comparison was close -- SGA had him beat in WS/48 and PER for example. Both of them were playing at an MVP level. Luka has fallen off a bit this year, but he's still in that 4-8 type range this season.

The difference is that while Luka regressed somewhat, this year SGA made a leap and has ascended to literal god mode. SGA is just better at this point, and its not particularly close. Its just not really fair to Luka to compare him, or anyone for that matter, to SGA this season.

You could make a very strong case that SGA is having the greatest season ever in NBA history this year, and that's not hyperbole -- and that's with Jokic arguably *also* having one of the greatest seasons ever.


lol stop it now or else we'll think SGA gave you a blowjob
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#75 » by SkyhookinUrMom » Fri Feb 7, 2025 8:38 am

Is that you Nico?
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#76 » by zimpy27 » Fri Feb 7, 2025 9:51 am

Well it all depends on the team layout. A dominant team or dynasty team is top on defense and offense. I don't think Luka could ever be on a dominant team because of his lack of defense but he could be on a championship team.

I think the one negative of Luka is that his style hid the potential of Brunson. I think that's the only negative I could pull.

I think Luka's playoff performances is what makes him great so far. He seems to improve in that arena.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#77 » by doogie_hauser » Fri Feb 7, 2025 10:11 am

zimpy27 wrote:Well it all depends on the team layout. A dominant team or dynasty team is top on defense and offense. I don't think Luka could ever be on a dominant team because of his lack of defense but he could be on a championship team.

I think the one negative of Luka is that his style hid the potential of Brunson. I think that's the only negative I could pull.

I think Luka's playoff performances is what makes him great so far. He seems to improve in that arena.


I am not sold on Luka's platoff performance peridgree at all really

He was effectively shut out/frozen in last year's finals v the Celtics, and before that, I don't think he had many memorable playoffs runs for the Mavs

I am of the the opinion actually that Luka is a fantastic regular season before but bit of a fizzer/dud when it comes to post season action
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#78 » by zimpy27 » Fri Feb 7, 2025 10:18 am

doogie_hauser wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Well it all depends on the team layout. A dominant team or dynasty team is top on defense and offense. I don't think Luka could ever be on a dominant team because of his lack of defense but he could be on a championship team.

I think the one negative of Luka is that his style hid the potential of Brunson. I think that's the only negative I could pull.

I think Luka's playoff performances is what makes him great so far. He seems to improve in that arena.


I am not sold on Luka's platoff performance peridgree at all really

He was effectively shut out/frozen in last year's finals v the Celtics, and before that, I don't think he had many memorable playoffs runs for the Mavs

I am of the the opinion actually that Luka is a fantastic regular season before but bit of a fizzer/dud when it comes to post season action


Yeah but Celtics shutdown Kyrie too. Mavs strategy fell apart.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#79 » by juanc » Fri Feb 7, 2025 10:22 am

doogie_hauser wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Well it all depends on the team layout. A dominant team or dynasty team is top on defense and offense. I don't think Luka could ever be on a dominant team because of his lack of defense but he could be on a championship team.

I think the one negative of Luka is that his style hid the potential of Brunson. I think that's the only negative I could pull.

I think Luka's playoff performances is what makes him great so far. He seems to improve in that arena.


I am not sold on Luka's platoff performance peridgree at all really

He was effectively shut out/frozen in last year's finals v the Celtics, and before that, I don't think he had many memorable playoffs runs for the Mavs

I am of the the opinion actually that Luka is a fantastic regular season before but bit of a fizzer/dud when it comes to post season action

Luka/Mavs probably have the most memorable game in recent history(game 7 vs the number 1 60+ win Suns), also 2nd year Luka with the 43/17/13 and a W(with KP injury, Boban playing 25+ minutes) against the Clippers.

Last year he was injured the whole playoffs. He needed a shot almost every game. Risky, but that's Luka, he plays through injuries. That's a big reason the Celtics could attack him, and he wasn't as effective.
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Re: SGA has more Win Shares than Luka 

Post#80 » by California Gold » Fri Feb 7, 2025 10:29 am

The major copium in this thread going on about Luka being a Laker is rather sad. People have their narratives, I get it. But none of it's backed by factual evidence. If you want to have your opinion of the sky being red that's fine. Just don't pretend that it has any merit associated with the factual truth.

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