*Update* Josh Giddey post All-Star break: 23.1 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 8.4 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.9 bpg on 65.5% TS

[magee]

He looks like what I thought Ricky Rubio would be.

Rubio was a much better defender before his injuries.

*When I was writing for RealGM and took myself to Spain, I took myself to a DKV Joventut game to scout Rudy Fernandez. There was a scrawny dude who came off the bench I was intrigued by and knew nothing about. I don't think I mentioned it in my write-up of the game and I still remember watching him play defense.

Rubio was 15 or 16 and it was his fourth professional game.

[slick_watts]

yeah ricky was leading the league in steal rate at his peak. giddey is nothing like ricky.

also, giddey's scoring is fake. he's shooting 53% from three in february. only 48% on 2pt shots (worse than his season # and career). .328 FTr though so maybe some marginal improvement.

but if you want to hitch your wagon to that three point shot, i have a bridge i'd like to sell you.

[Chi town]

yeah ricky was leading the league in steal rate at his peak. giddey is nothing like ricky.

also, giddey's scoring is fake. he's shooting 53% from three in february. only 48% on 2pt shots (worse than his season # and career). .328 FTr though so maybe some marginal improvement.

but if you want to hitch your wagon to that three point shot, i have a bridge i'd like to sell you.

His 3pt heave is awful… but he’s made a noticeable change to his shot mechanics over the past 10 games. It’s easiest seen in his FTs. Right elbow isn’t way out leading to a push shot that was mainly flat and would be short on nearly every miss.

His new form has his elbow in a more normal spot and it’s leading to him shooting the ball with his wrists and finger tips and more rotation and arc. His misses are normally long now and he’s missing a lot less.

Giddey will keep improving and will probably be a 40% 3pt shooter on lower volume. Teams are now guarding him at the line and he’s still getting 5 attempts per game up.

His D has improved a lot with his stocks increasing and him no longer being targeted.

I think Giddey is a winning player if he keeps improving where he already is… the 3pt shot, more FTs, better D. Give him a good lob threat C and that would really open up his he offense. If he gets a true first option next to him I think he’d be really good. Elite IQ.

[FrodoBaggins]

Giddey's like a bigger, less athletic Kidd or Rubio. Looks like a slower Kidd when he gets the defensive rebound and pushes the break. Showing serious Dallas Mavericks Kidd vibes as a spot-up shooter this season. Last I checked he was doing like 38% 3PT on catch-and-shoot threes. Bigger size allows him to be more of a presence inside as a rebounder. Lack of comparative athleticism shows up most on defense.

Here's how the three compare at ages 21 and 22:

Kidd:
- 35.6 minutes per game
- 14.2 points, 6.1 rebounds, 8.7 assists, 2.0 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.6 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 20.1 points, 8.7 rebounds, 12.3 assists, 2.9 steals, 0.4 blocks, 5.1 turnovers
- 38.3% FG, 31.1% 3PT (4.1 attempts), 41.4% 2PT (9.4 attempts), 69.5% FT (3.8 attempts; .282 FTr), 47.0% TS (87 TS+)
- +1.6 BPM (1.5 off; 0.1 def)

Giddey:
- 26.9 minutes per game
- 12.7 points, 6.9 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.4 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 22.3 points, 12.1 rebounds, 9.8 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.0 blocks, 4.2 turnovers
- 46.8% FG, 35.8% 3PT (3.4 attempts), 52.0% 2PT (7.2 attempts), 79.2% FT (1.9 attempts; .180 FTr), 55.3% TS (96 TS+)
- +1.6 BPM (1.1 off; 0.5 def)

Rubio:
- 31.6 minutes per game
- 10.7 points, 4.1 rebounds, 7.7 assists, 2.3 steals, 0.1 blocks, 3.1 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 17.4 points, 6.7 rebounds, 12.6 assists, 3.8 steals, 0.2 blocks, 5.1 turnovers
- 35.9% FG, 31.7% 3PT (1.9 attempts), 37.0% 2PT (7.3 attempts), 80.0% FT (4.3 attempts; .466 FTr), 48.0% TS (90 TS+)
- +1.1 BPM (-0.6 off; 1.7 def)

[zimpy27]

Giddey's like a bigger, less athletic Kidd or Rubio. Looks like a slower Kidd when he gets the defensive rebound and pushes the break. Showing serious Dallas Mavericks Kidd vibes as a spot-up shooter this season. Last I checked he was doing like 38% 3PT on catch-and-shoot threes. Bigger size allows him to be more of a presence inside as a rebounder. Lack of comparative athleticism shows up most on defense.

Here's how the three compare at ages 21 and 22:

Kidd:
- 35.6 minutes per game
- 14.2 points, 6.1 rebounds, 8.7 assists, 2.0 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.6 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 20.1 points, 8.7 rebounds, 12.3 assists, 2.9 steals, 0.4 blocks, 5.1 turnovers
- 38.3% FG, 31.1% 3PT (4.1 attempts), 41.4% 2PT (9.4 attempts), 69.5% FT (3.8 attempts; .282 FTr), 47.0% TS (87 TS+)
- +1.6 BPM (1.5 off; 0.1 def)

Giddey:
- 26.9 minutes per game
- 12.7 points, 6.9 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.4 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 22.3 points, 12.1 rebounds, 9.8 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.0 blocks, 4.2 turnovers
- 46.8% FG, 35.8% 3PT (3.4 attempts), 52.0% 2PT (7.2 attempts), 79.2% FT (1.9 attempts; .180 FTr), 55.3% TS (96 TS+)
- +1.6 BPM (1.1 off; 0.5 def)

Rubio:
- 31.6 minutes per game
- 10.7 points, 4.1 rebounds, 7.7 assists, 2.3 steals, 0.1 blocks, 3.1 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 17.4 points, 6.7 rebounds, 12.6 assists, 3.8 steals, 0.2 blocks, 5.1 turnovers
- 35.9% FG, 31.7% 3PT (1.9 attempts), 37.0% 2PT (7.3 attempts), 80.0% FT (4.3 attempts; .466 FTr), 48.0% TS (90 TS+)
- +1.1 BPM (-0.6 off; 1.7 def)

I compared him early to Doncic. I think they are the same type of players, big strong wings that can get guys on their hip while playing slow and being skilled passers.

Key difference is Luka's far better shooting ability. But Giddey is improving. He doesn't have the bag of Luka but I think he could build to be a diet version.

[Chi town]

Giddey's like a bigger, less athletic Kidd or Rubio. Looks like a slower Kidd when he gets the defensive rebound and pushes the break. Showing serious Dallas Mavericks Kidd vibes as a spot-up shooter this season. Last I checked he was doing like 38% 3PT on catch-and-shoot threes. Bigger size allows him to be more of a presence inside as a rebounder. Lack of comparative athleticism shows up most on defense.

Here's how the three compare at ages 21 and 22:

Kidd:
- 35.6 minutes per game
- 14.2 points, 6.1 rebounds, 8.7 assists, 2.0 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.6 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 20.1 points, 8.7 rebounds, 12.3 assists, 2.9 steals, 0.4 blocks, 5.1 turnovers
- 38.3% FG, 31.1% 3PT (4.1 attempts), 41.4% 2PT (9.4 attempts), 69.5% FT (3.8 attempts; .282 FTr), 47.0% TS (87 TS+)
- +1.6 BPM (1.5 off; 0.1 def)

Giddey:
- 26.9 minutes per game
- 12.7 points, 6.9 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.4 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 22.3 points, 12.1 rebounds, 9.8 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.0 blocks, 4.2 turnovers
- 46.8% FG, 35.8% 3PT (3.4 attempts), 52.0% 2PT (7.2 attempts), 79.2% FT (1.9 attempts; .180 FTr), 55.3% TS (96 TS+)
- +1.6 BPM (1.1 off; 0.5 def)

Rubio:
- 31.6 minutes per game
- 10.7 points, 4.1 rebounds, 7.7 assists, 2.3 steals, 0.1 blocks, 3.1 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 17.4 points, 6.7 rebounds, 12.6 assists, 3.8 steals, 0.2 blocks, 5.1 turnovers
- 35.9% FG, 31.7% 3PT (1.9 attempts), 37.0% 2PT (7.3 attempts), 80.0% FT (4.3 attempts; .466 FTr), 48.0% TS (90 TS+)
- +1.1 BPM (-0.6 off; 1.7 def)

I compared him early to Doncic. I think they are the same type of players, big strong wings that can get guys on their hip while playing slow and being skilled passers.

Key difference is Luka's far better shooting ability. But Giddey is improving. He doesn't have the bag of Luka but I think he could build to be a diet version.

So how good would a Diet Doncic be?

What kind of stats?

[zimpy27]

Giddey's like a bigger, less athletic Kidd or Rubio. Looks like a slower Kidd when he gets the defensive rebound and pushes the break. Showing serious Dallas Mavericks Kidd vibes as a spot-up shooter this season. Last I checked he was doing like 38% 3PT on catch-and-shoot threes. Bigger size allows him to be more of a presence inside as a rebounder. Lack of comparative athleticism shows up most on defense.

Here's how the three compare at ages 21 and 22:

Kidd:
- 35.6 minutes per game
- 14.2 points, 6.1 rebounds, 8.7 assists, 2.0 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.6 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 20.1 points, 8.7 rebounds, 12.3 assists, 2.9 steals, 0.4 blocks, 5.1 turnovers
- 38.3% FG, 31.1% 3PT (4.1 attempts), 41.4% 2PT (9.4 attempts), 69.5% FT (3.8 attempts; .282 FTr), 47.0% TS (87 TS+)
- +1.6 BPM (1.5 off; 0.1 def)

Giddey:
- 26.9 minutes per game
- 12.7 points, 6.9 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.4 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 22.3 points, 12.1 rebounds, 9.8 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.0 blocks, 4.2 turnovers
- 46.8% FG, 35.8% 3PT (3.4 attempts), 52.0% 2PT (7.2 attempts), 79.2% FT (1.9 attempts; .180 FTr), 55.3% TS (96 TS+)
- +1.6 BPM (1.1 off; 0.5 def)

Rubio:
- 31.6 minutes per game
- 10.7 points, 4.1 rebounds, 7.7 assists, 2.3 steals, 0.1 blocks, 3.1 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 17.4 points, 6.7 rebounds, 12.6 assists, 3.8 steals, 0.2 blocks, 5.1 turnovers
- 35.9% FG, 31.7% 3PT (1.9 attempts), 37.0% 2PT (7.3 attempts), 80.0% FT (4.3 attempts; .466 FTr), 48.0% TS (90 TS+)
- +1.1 BPM (-0.6 off; 1.7 def)

I compared him early to Doncic. I think they are the same type of players, big strong wings that can get guys on their hip while playing slow and being skilled passers.

Key difference is Luka's far better shooting ability. But Giddey is improving. He doesn't have the bag of Luka but I think he could build to be a diet version.

So how good would a Diet Doncic be?

What kind of stats?

Well per 100 Giddey tracks with Doncic for most stats including efficiencies. Except the obvious big difference is Giddey scores half the amount of Doncic, takes half the shots.

So diet Giddey would be adding more iso offense and scoring to his game.

[slick_watts]

jason kidd and ricky rubio were all-world defensive guards and josh giddey is a liability. what are we doing here?

[XTC]

Too many Giddey haters in this thread. Kid is still only 22 and he's posting 16/9/8/1.5/1 PER36 with a 17 PER, 2 BPM, and shooting 38% from 3 (stats are rounded up).

He was drafted as a project, and he's still improving. I don't even think his biggest supporters think hes going to a future allstar, but I can see him developing into a very high end point guard who can start in the future.

[FrodoBaggins]

jason kidd and ricky rubio were all-world defensive guards and josh giddey is a liability. what are we doing here?

Nobody made that comparison. Only you did in your head. You've deliberately removed the context of the qualifiers (...bigger, less athletic...) to make a dumb comment. You should try to do better as a former mod and 20+ year poster.

Defense is largely reactive and, therefore, is more dependent on athleticism and anthropometry. A version of a player with fewer of those qualities is not the same player. Giddey is not the same player and Kidd and Rubio, because he's bigger and less athletic. But he shares many qualities with them. Josh should be compared to playmakers with limited pull-up shooting.

They're more athletic than Giddey, both in absolute terms and relative to size. Superior speed, quickness, power, and agility. It's these qualities that largely make Kidd and Rubio superior defenders. Josh lacks the physical ability to make a defensive impact. He's gotten markedly better of late through improved effort and smarter decision-making (rotations, help d, off-ball positioning, etc.)

[slick_watts]

Nobody made that comparison. Only you did in your head. You've deliberately removed the context of the qualifiers (...bigger, less athletic...) to make a dumb comment. You should try to do better as a former mod and 20+ year poster.

when you need to add a bunch of qualifiers to the comparison, it stops being a useful comparison.

But he shares many qualities with them. Josh should be compared to playmakers with limited pull-up shooting.

many qualities? being a playmaker who can't create shots for himself is the only quality he shares with them. giddey is far worse in transition than either of them, he was one of the worst transition players in the nba last season and bottom third this year. he can't defend like they can. they are only similar 'in your head'.

[Chuck Everett]

These numbers mean nothing. Still unplayable against good teams and the playoffs. Bulls hand him a big contract, they've literally learned nothing.

[ConstableChaos]

jason kidd and ricky rubio were all-world defensive guards and josh giddey is a liability. what are we doing here?

cant really speak on kidd, but ricky wishes he could score and rebound like giddey

[Astaluego]

I think he's very good at basketball in a vacuum, skilled and technical (reminds me of those types of players like Randle/DDR in that they have very good skills but are a poor fit in today's NBA and aren't good enough to build a team around them that can make up for their flaws)

[lethalizer]

5-15 shooting and 0-4 from three against the Pacers.

Since this thread gets updated whenever he has a good shooting game, I figured I'd go ahead and keep it properly updated, since these kind of lines are also common for Josh.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Giddey's like a bigger, less athletic Kidd or Rubio. Looks like a slower Kidd when he gets the defensive rebound and pushes the break. Showing serious Dallas Mavericks Kidd vibes as a spot-up shooter this season. Last I checked he was doing like 38% 3PT on catch-and-shoot threes. Bigger size allows him to be more of a presence inside as a rebounder. Lack of comparative athleticism shows up most on defense.

Here's how the three compare at ages 21 and 22:

Kidd:
- 35.6 minutes per game
- 14.2 points, 6.1 rebounds, 8.7 assists, 2.0 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.6 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 20.1 points, 8.7 rebounds, 12.3 assists, 2.9 steals, 0.4 blocks, 5.1 turnovers
- 38.3% FG, 31.1% 3PT (4.1 attempts), 41.4% 2PT (9.4 attempts), 69.5% FT (3.8 attempts; .282 FTr), 47.0% TS (87 TS+)
- +1.6 BPM (1.5 off; 0.1 def)

Giddey:
- 26.9 minutes per game
- 12.7 points, 6.9 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.4 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 22.3 points, 12.1 rebounds, 9.8 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.0 blocks, 4.2 turnovers
- 46.8% FG, 35.8% 3PT (3.4 attempts), 52.0% 2PT (7.2 attempts), 79.2% FT (1.9 attempts; .180 FTr), 55.3% TS (96 TS+)
- +1.6 BPM (1.1 off; 0.5 def)

Rubio:
- 31.6 minutes per game
- 10.7 points, 4.1 rebounds, 7.7 assists, 2.3 steals, 0.1 blocks, 3.1 turnovers
- per 100 poss: 17.4 points, 6.7 rebounds, 12.6 assists, 3.8 steals, 0.2 blocks, 5.1 turnovers
- 35.9% FG, 31.7% 3PT (1.9 attempts), 37.0% 2PT (7.3 attempts), 80.0% FT (4.3 attempts; .466 FTr), 48.0% TS (90 TS+)
- +1.1 BPM (-0.6 off; 1.7 def)

I compared him early to Doncic. I think they are the same type of players, big strong wings that can get guys on their hip while playing slow and being skilled passers.

Key difference is Luka's far better shooting ability. But Giddey is improving. He doesn't have the bag of Luka but I think he could build to be a diet version.

doesn't have the bag but also doesn't have an organization that gifted him as many shots as he wanted while ignoring %, turnovers and defense, like has been the case for Doncic who walked into the league as a 19 y/o getting nearly 17 fga per game and saw his usage take a major jump from there.

The one season Giddy got nearly the usage Doncic did as a rookie:

Giddey (15 FGA) - 17/8/6 shot 33% from three with a better than 2:1 assist to turnover ratio
Doncic (17 FGA) - 21/8/6 shot 33% from three with a less than 2:1 assist to turnover ratio

It certainly does seem that production is basically tied to usage and whether your coach ignores defense, turnovers and efficiency or not. Who is afforded this freedom depends on organization and marketability in this rigged league.

[DrModesty]

5-15 shooting and 0-4 from three against the Pacers.

Since this thread gets updated whenever he has a good shooting game, I figured I'd go ahead and keep it properly updated, since these kind of lines are also common for Josh.

Also a career high in FTA with 11. He definitely had a very poor shooting night, but in the end it was still an 18/9/7 game even with the bad shooting.

The vast majority of rookies that put up his stat lines would have ended up getting a mega high usage, run the team stretch. OKC even wanted to do it in his rookie year when they shut Shai down, but he got that season ending hip injury.

He is finally getting that chance, and the results are at a minimum, intriguing.

[lethalizer]

5-15 shooting and 0-4 from three against the Pacers.

Since this thread gets updated whenever he has a good shooting game, I figured I'd go ahead and keep it properly updated, since these kind of lines are also common for Josh.

Also a career high in FTA with 11. He definitely had a very poor shooting night, but in the end it was still an 18/9/7 game even with the bad shooting.

The vast majority of rookies that put up his stat lines would have ended up getting a mega high usage, run the team stretch. OKC even wanted to do it in his rookie year when they shut Shai down, but he got that season ending hip injury.

He is finally getting that chance, and the results are at a minimum, intriguing.

I followed the man throughout his entire career. He has some great stretches here and there, and just cools off.

I remember him going through a great stretch back in 2023 even, I think it was around January. He had a 10 game stretch of 19-20 ppg with 50+ shooting from the field. Then something happened and it just, stopped.

That's who Giddey is. He just falters off at some point and regresses to his mean. Some players tend to be streaky like that.

Can Giddey become consistent throughout an entire season? Sure, I'm not denying the possibility of it happening. Would it shock me if it actually happened? Yes, yes it would.

[Chi town]

These numbers mean nothing. Still unplayable against good teams and the playoffs. Bulls hand him a big contract, they've literally learned nothing.

He certainly struggles against physical defense and pressure. He beats it with smart player movement from teammates and is starting to draw fouls but he still isn’t any good at creating looks for himself outside a downhill drive. No midrange and no creating 3s off the bounce.

If he just continues improvement on his 3 ball and FTs as he has shown he will become a winning panther. His D is much improved. He probably maxes as a good 3rd option and fills the stat sheet.

To max him out he needs an elite shooter with gravity and a lob threat C. Both would open up the floor for him a lot. Hes a great passer that needs creators on the floor with him.

[Chi town]

5-15 shooting and 0-4 from three against the Pacers.

Since this thread gets updated whenever he has a good shooting game, I figured I'd go ahead and keep it properly updated, since these kind of lines are also common for Josh.

Also a career high in FTA with 11. He definitely had a very poor shooting night, but in the end it was still an 18/9/7 game even with the bad shooting.

The vast majority of rookies that put up his stat lines would have ended up getting a mega high usage, run the team stretch. OKC even wanted to do it in his rookie year when they shut Shai down, but he got that season ending hip injury.

He is finally getting that chance, and the results are at a minimum, intriguing.

I followed the man throughout his entire career. He has some great stretches here and there, and just cools off.

I remember him going through a great stretch back in 2023 even, I think it was around January. He had a 10 game stretch of 19-20 ppg with 50+ shooting from the field. Then something happened and it just, stopped.

That's who Giddey is. He just falters off at some point and regresses to his mean. Some players tend to be streaky like that.

Can Giddey become consistent throughout an entire season? Sure, I'm not denying the possibility of it happening. Would it shock me if it actually happened? Yes, yes it would.

GTK.

He’s def getting his opp right now with Lavine gone and Vuc hurt.

Good early returns but we need to see it for 25 games at least.

His shot has and is improving. Mechanics and setup much better. That’s helping him a lot.