Channing Frye: Nostalgia is KILLING the NBA. 90s basketball era with MJ and Kobe was not as clean as you think.

[kcktiny]

I see more skill today than ever before

Would you care to elaborate on this?

It's just the "things were better in my time" people who will always be downers

How is this any different from people saying this about now versus back "then", whenever back then was? In particular people who weren't even alive (or were very young) back "then", those times that they made these comments about?

Frye was born in 1983. His rant was about players in the 90s. He was age 6 when the 1989-90 season began, 16 at the end of the decade. Wonder how much of the NBA he actually watched in the 90s, or as an adult how much of the NBA of the 60s, 70s, and 80s he has watched.

He seemed to be complaining about the players of today being compared to great players of the past, like the players of today do not get the credit they deserve. Not sure what he's talking about - almost every website I visit for NBA content has content about the players of today, not players of the past.

[Teen Girl Squad]

He's not wrong. There are still plenty of old heads here from the beginning on RealGm and let me tell you, the discourse around the NBA in the early 00s had a similar level of doomerism with how objectively awful offense was vs the Jordan era. There is a group of people that simply cannot appreciate anything current in basketball (or life), they can only enjoy things drenched in the rosy sheen of nostalgia. People who cry that LeBron/KD/Steph/etc... are frauds/overrated/etc.. are the people who will lecture us about how "they don't make players like LeBron anymore" this time a decade from now.

It. Has. Always. Been. This. Way.

Literally since I started watching in the 80s everybody always moans and whines about the NBA. It will NEVER END.

Yeah, started in the early 90s and started reading Basketball magazines around 93/94. Some topics I still remember:

- Basketball is dead without MJ
- Slam dunk contest is boring and sucks
- Young players are selfish after Chris Webber cancelled his contract with the Warriors after one season
- Young players just care about the money and the NBA is ruining itself with it´s contracts, after the 94-95 draft class had received record contracts in amount and duration
- Slam dunk contest sucks even worse now
- Young players care too much about stardom and being a celebrity, instead of focusing on Basketball
- Teams are scoring less and less, we need to make it easier to score
- Basketball is boring because of the Bulls
- The 98/99 lockout has caused long term damage to the league, fans are fed up, popularity is in a free fall
- NBA teams drafting High School players is ruining the league
- Basketball is boring because of the Lakers
- NBA teams drafting soft Europeans is ruining the league
- The Malice at the palace will have a negative long term impact on the league
- Small market teams dominating while the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics are irrelevant is ruining the league
- Basketball is boring because of the boring way the Spurs play with boring Tim Duncan, who has 0 star power
- After the 2006 Bronze Medal. US dominance is over, those young players just care about money
- The 2007 betting scandal will kill the league, the league has completely lost it´s reputation
- Since Kobe was mentioned as a positive example, in internet culture from the mid 2000s to the early 2010s he was mostly viewed has a selfish player that takes to many shots, including endless "pass the ball" and "assist" memes on sides like 9Gag.

And I could continiue with that trhough the 2010s. And same goes for the 70s and 80s, when you hade cocaine scandals, Wilt talking about Kareem and MJ, MJ being viewed as a flashy stats guy but not a winner and so on.

One of the earliest recorded internet posts in history (when it was still experimental college tech) was someone complaining about how Kareem was soft and how 70s basketball was tougher/better. This was far from a rare complaint, as made famous by Kareem himself in the movie Airplane! This is especially poignant as modern narratives around basketball almost universally agree that the 80s were a golden era and that the 70s were forgettable and boring.

[One Last Shot]

Scrantonbulls, you have some real pb...

MJ would say, GET SOME HELP

Maybe he should say that first to his drug addict son who got arrested by authorities than some poster in an online basketball forum.

Read on Twitter

[SeattleJazzFan]

whether frye makes good points or not, i don't know and frankly don't care. but he is right that nostalgia is killing the league.

[Haldi]

No wonder the NBA ratings are dropping. If being compared to past generations (something that has happened for every era) is 'killing' the NBA you are literally admitting you are putting out an inferior product. Maybe if these weren't the most entitled athletes in the world by a country mile they'd be more 'celebrated'. No league hates its fans more than the NBA.

No [old] fans hate their sport more than NBA fans

[kcktiny]

modern narratives around basketball almost universally agree that the 80s were a golden era and that the 70s were forgettable and boring.

Likely because those narratives are being made by people that did not watch the NBA in the 70s, or weren't even alive then.

The 70s was a great decade for the NBA. Just like any decade of the league. The difference was games were not on TV anywhere near as often as they are now, or have been for a few decades.

The other difference is back in the 70s we couldn't boot up our computers and go to YouTube to watch games from the 50s. At least now those complaining about the 70s can go and watch games from that decade, rather than commenting on something they know next to nothing about.

[homecourtloss]

He’s right, and it’s hurt the league.

I’m nearly 50 years old and have watched the NBA since I was seven years old and grew up watching the late 80s and 90s basketball.

In no other sport is the modern version of it denigrated to the point that the current NBA is, and it is primarily due to people who need to deify a certain player who played in the 80s and 90s in Chicago.

It is not enough to deify him—in order to complete the hagiography of his singular untouchability and place in history, every other era has to be torn down over and over again until the narrative becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. You will see kids today who are 13 years old repeating the same narratives about today’s league vs. the one in the 80s or 90s even though they have seen nothing other than the modern game.

there is no other sport on earth in which young kids denigrate the modern version of a sport using the language of people 30-40 years older than they and favor the version of the sport from 30 years ago in historical/who’s better/etc., debates simply due to the narratives that they have been fed and regurgitate.

[kcktiny]

He’s right, and it’s hurt the league.

Not buying this at all.

In no other sport is the modern version of it denigrated to the point that the current NBA is, and it is primarily due to people who need to deify a certain player who played in the 80s and 90s in Chicago. It is not enough to deify him—in order to complete the hagiography of his singular untouchability and place in history, every other era has to be torn down over and over again until the narrative becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

When I was young the baseball Washington Senators named Ted Williams as their manager. Had no clue who he was. Dad said he was an all-time great, but I had to go to the library to get a book on him or baseball in general just to learn about him, and even then it's not like I could easily compare him to all other players.

In the 70s/80s any time a player was hitting above .370 halfway through the season I remember that all you heard about was would he better Ted Williams' single season .406 (last player to hit .400), or if a player had a 30+ game winning streak would he catch Joe DiMaggio's record 56 game streak. Or in the late 90s when the whole season was would McGwire break Babe Ruth's 60 HR single season record.

And one thing I will always remember is hearing how many championships the Yankees won.

But never did I ever hear anything about how all these comparisons were somehow denigrating the sport.

Same with anyone today being compared to players of the past. Heck Shaq was always being compared to Chamberlain - how has that denigrated the sport? On the contrary to be compared to an all-time great creates conversation.

Jabbar too was always compared to Chamberlain. Magic Johnson was always being compared to Oscar Robertson. Lebron James was always being compared to both Dr.J. and Larry Bird.

Yet somehow this denigrates the sport?

In no other sport is the modern version of it denigrated to the point that the current NBA is, and it is primarily due to people who need to deify a certain player who played in the 80s and 90s in Chicago. It is not enough to deify him—in order to complete the hagiography of his singular untouchability and place in history, every other era has to be torn down over and over again until the narrative becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

You don't want to hear about Jordan? Don't listen. Turn the channel, change the website, switch the video you're watching. Being compared to Jordan, or Chamberlain, or the Big O, or Erving/Bird is an honor.

SGA is now being compared to Jordan - as he should be. Jordan was an all-time great, but didn't win a title until age 28. If you're old enough you'll remember all the negative stuff that was said publicly about a young Jordan - he's a one man team, yeh he can score but he can't lead a team, he's all about himself.

Then what happened.

You want to watch some great basketball? Not just Doncic or Harden scoring 35 pts/g and not getting anywhere, and then getting traded? Watch the Oklahoma City Thunder who are on pace to be one of the greatest defensive teams ever, without a single player in their regular rotation being older than age 26. Watch Alex Caruso play less than half of every game but terrorize opponents with his defense.

There is great basketball being played today for those who want to watch, just as there is every decade.

You think nostalgia is killing the league?

Is nostalgia responsible for load management? For fans paying top dollar to go see a game only to find out their team's star player isn't playing even though not injured?

Is nostalgia the reason players couldn't care less about giving an effort in the all-star game?

Is nostalgia the reason why players are bitching about the team they're on and wanting to be traded even though they signed a contract and make oodles of $$?

Is nostalgia the reason why fans have to listen to players gripe about having to play in so many games just to be named to an all-NBA or all-defensive team?

Is nostalgia the reason why fans have to listen to players complain about how long the season is, that they have to play too many games to make their million dollar salaries?

That's right - let's blame nostalgia for killing the league.

[NbaAllDay]

Instead of criticizing how the general NBA fan feels about the NBA, maybe they should take note and make adjustments accordingly. Hate these talking heads telling people how they should feel about the sport. No amount of shaming is going to change people's opinions.

I would generally agree with this however this is absolutely not the case here.

The media has driven this culture, and 'fans' who never even experienced the 90s are driven to believing it was better. Therefore complaining about today in comparison. This comparison isn't even factual and they sit in that agitation.

The other camp of people who lived through the 90s falls for the Nostalgia that is clearly present in every other aspect of life, but apparently it doesn't blind people when it comes to Basketball, somehow thats the exception.

No one is saying that the NBA is perfect today, its that people have an irrational and uneducated annoyance for it through a mixture of Media influence and nostalgia.

[LockoutSeason]

Instead of criticizing how the general NBA fan feels about the NBA, maybe they should take note and make adjustments accordingly. Hate these talking heads telling people how they should feel about the sport. No amount of shaming is going to change people's opinions.

He’s not criticizing general NBA fans, he’s criticizing ‘90s NBA fans.

‘90s fans don’t represent all of us.

[Nate505]

There weren't a gazillion 3s, so it had that going for it.

[AmIWrongDude]

Everything was always better “back then” regardless of what time period back then is. Sports, music, movies, and a million other things. It’s how it is and how it probably always will be.

The music I loved growing up was trash to my dad. The music he grew up with was probably trash to his dad. I make a concerted effort to catch myself when I start thinking that way.

I look at the way a lot of MJ fans are actually denying themselves the ability to appreciate a once in a lifetime player like LeBron just because he’s the competition and I don’t want that to be me. I do think like that sometimes but then I realize what’s the point? That way of thinking actually keeps you from enjoying a sport u love.

[boogiezen]

He’s right.

He's not. Back then, you couldn't load manage.

[Synciere]

He’s right.

This.

People need to watch those games side by side games today and they’ll see.

[audiosway]

Show me a guy currently in the NBA that tears his ACHILLES, walks out and walks back out to hit 2 free throws before leaving the court. Then, I'll agree.

That's the difference between 80s/90s basketball and now.

[Fantastik_Goat]

As a person from the olden times. I’ve spent 25 years in two centuries now. I’ll admit that NBA players are better now. BUT ITS NOT COOL! For reasons that can’t be changed.
-in the 80-90’s players had to play everyday and put on a show because the $ was in endorsements
-the internet killed being a fan of your local team.
- getting rid of division winner playoff seeding and a balancing the schedule. regional rivals (as a bulls fan) games against Detroit, Indiana, Milwaukee, and Cleveland meant more.
- The medias need for the next Jordan. People were comparing LeBron to Jordan before he played an NBA game.
- the Chosen 1, The Decision, Ring Chasing, stacked teams. it’s boring. Being a really good team(not a champion was still a good thing)

Would you rather have a 65’ Mustang or 2025 Mustang? One is way cooler and one is technically better.

[The Explorer]

He’s right, and it’s hurt the league.

Not buying this at all.

In no other sport is the modern version of it denigrated to the point that the current NBA is, and it is primarily due to people who need to deify a certain player who played in the 80s and 90s in Chicago. It is not enough to deify him—in order to complete the hagiography of his singular untouchability and place in history, every other era has to be torn down over and over again until the narrative becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

When I was young the baseball Washington Senators named Ted Williams as their manager. Had no clue who he was. Dad said he was an all-time great, but I had to go to the library to get a book on him or baseball in general just to learn about him, and even then it's not like I could easily compare him to all other players.

In the 70s/80s any time a player was hitting above .370 halfway through the season I remember that all you heard about was would he better Ted Williams' single season .406 (last player to hit .400), or if a player had a 30+ game winning streak would he catch Joe DiMaggio's record 56 game streak. Or in the late 90s when the whole season was would McGwire break Babe Ruth's 60 HR single season record.

And one thing I will always remember is hearing how many championships the Yankees won.

But never did I ever hear anything about how all these comparisons were somehow denigrating the sport.

Same with anyone today being compared to players of the past. Heck Shaq was always being compared to Chamberlain - how has that denigrated the sport? On the contrary to be compared to an all-time great creates conversation.

Jabbar too was always compared to Chamberlain. Magic Johnson was always being compared to Oscar Robertson. Lebron James was always being compared to both Dr.J. and Larry Bird.

Yet somehow this denigrates the sport?

In no other sport is the modern version of it denigrated to the point that the current NBA is, and it is primarily due to people who need to deify a certain player who played in the 80s and 90s in Chicago. It is not enough to deify him—in order to complete the hagiography of his singular untouchability and place in history, every other era has to be torn down over and over again until the narrative becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

You don't want to hear about Jordan? Don't listen. Turn the channel, change the website, switch the video you're watching. Being compared to Jordan, or Chamberlain, or the Big O, or Erving/Bird is an honor.

SGA is now being compared to Jordan - as he should be. Jordan was an all-time great, but didn't win a title until age 28. If you're old enough you'll remember all the negative stuff that was said publicly about a young Jordan - he's a one man team, yeh he can score but he can't lead a team, he's all about himself.

Then what happened.

You want to watch some great basketball? Not just Doncic or Harden scoring 35 pts/g and not getting anywhere, and then getting traded? Watch the Oklahoma City Thunder who are on pace to be one of the greatest defensive teams ever, without a single player in their regular rotation being older than age 26. Watch Alex Caruso play less than half of every game but terrorize opponents with his defense.

There is great basketball being played today for those who want to watch, just as there is every decade.

You think nostalgia is killing the league?

Is nostalgia responsible for load management? For fans paying top dollar to go see a game only to find out their team's star player isn't playing even though not injured?

Is nostalgia the reason players couldn't care less about giving an effort in the all-star game?

Is nostalgia the reason why players are bitching about the team they're on and wanting to be traded even though they signed a contract and make oodles of $$?

Is nostalgia the reason why fans have to listen to players gripe about having to play in so many games just to be named to an all-NBA or all-defensive team?

Is nostalgia the reason why fans have to listen to players complain about how long the season is, that they have to play too many games to make their million dollar salaries?

That's right - let's blame nostalgia for killing the league.

Great post. To add, is nostalgia the reason why the face of the league is whining about the schedule and having to play too much basketball?

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

[LockoutSeason]

Show me a guy currently in the NBA that tears his ACHILLES, walks out and walks back out to hit 2 free throws before leaving the court. Then, I'll agree.

That's the difference between 80s/90s basketball and now.

Kevin Durant

[ReggiesKnicks]

There weren't a gazillion 3s, so it had that going for it.

It had less sophisticated offenses.
It had less sophisticated defenses.
It had illegal defensive rules, meaning 70-80% of defensive possessions in the modern NBA would be illegal in the 1990s.
It had less skill overall (passing, shooting, finishing and dribbling).
It had one on one, 5-10 dribble post-ups, which were a snore.

One thing the 1980s and 1990s did have going for it was terrific story lines and more consistent playoff matchups. Good teams stayed decent-to-good, bad teams stayed bad. It resulted in true rivalries and teams meeting 4 times in 5 seasons in the post-season, ect.

[KyRo23]

The “we done with the 90s” phase last year was actually hilarious because it had people who had never seen that product seeking out what the games actually looked like

Obvious that trend was over the top, but it did open some eyes in a positive sense. It was forgotten fast unfortunately, but a lot of fans saw that maybe the 90s was overrated