2025 NBA PLAYOFFS East Semifinals: #1 Cleveland Cavaliers vs #4 Indiana Pacers (IND leads 1-0)

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

It's so difficult to take anything from those January games, Hali missed the 2nd one.

But the 1st one, Hunter wasn't on the team yet so the Cavs still had LeVert and Niang on the team who are not a great match for the Pacers. Ty Jerome also missed both games. Plus Strus became a starter after that and Wade became an end of rotation guy. A different team dynamic headed into this series.

I understand, but the record is still the record. I don’t see how that is an example of the Cavs having the Pacers number.

Meh, i take the record with a grain of salt. Pacere have never played this version of the Cavs, fully healthy.

Idk why jbk said the number thing, we shall see what he says.

Agreed. I think the Cavs are a better team and are able to take advantage of the Pacers biggest weakness(rebounding.)

I do think the Pacers will put up much more of a fight than the Heat did though. I expect it to go 6 games, but we’ll see.

[JujitsuFlip]

I understand, but the record is still the record. I don’t see how that is an example of the Cavs having the Pacers number.

Meh, i take the record with a grain of salt. Pacere have never played this version of the Cavs, fully healthy.

Idk why jbk said the number thing, we shall see what he says.

Agreed. I think the Cavs are a better team and are able to take advantage of the Pacers biggest weakness(rebounding.)

I do think the Pacers will put up much more of a fight than the Heat did though. I expect it to go 6 games, but we’ll see.

I hope the Cavs can find a way to win 4 out of 7 times but with Garland and Mitchell hobbled, gives me a little pause.

Maybe the little time off will help both teams get close to 100%

[Chuck Everett]

Myles Turner could have a big series here stretching the floor.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Myles Turner could have a big series here stretching the floor.

Feels like Mobley/Allen would be good at defending that, no?

[oikosnomos]

I don't think the Cavs are deeper, which is crazy to say because they're one of the deepest teams in the league.

Cavs will play the below 8, big minutes

Garland
Mitchell
Strus
Mobley
Allen
Jerome
Hunter
Merrill

Then Wade and Okoro are going to see spot minutes, rounding out their 10. I don't think any other Cav touches the floor in meaningful minutes.

I'm not as well versed on Pacers ball but if the 1st series is any indication the below 11 guys are probably going to see the floor every night, even if for just 1 second.

Hali
Siakam
Turner
Nesmith
Nembhard
Toppin
McConnell
Mathurin
Walker
Ben Sheppard
Bryant

I disagree, mostly because I think the Cavs starters playing fewer minutes speaks to how much they trust their bench guys and thus their depth. Jerome, Hunter, Merrill get a lot of floor time and I think that speaks to the depth. Wade and Okoro are rotation guys, but there is no hesitancy by Atkinson to use them more than spot minutes. Even Green has been given meaningful minutes lately as he gets more familiar with the team.

I'm not sure how many actual players the Pacers will get on the floor in a given game, but I know our 1 through 10 are trusted fully. Only time I think there is any limitation is with Okoro if he is going to be left open on the 3, but even that is pretty rare that adjust because of that.

I guess depth is up for interpretation. I think of it as both how deep you go into your roster and how much time and/or role they play in the game.

[oikosnomos]

Myles Turner could have a big series here stretching the floor.

Feels like Mobley/Allen would be good at defending that, no?

Turner should have a nice series with 3s and blocks. We'll see how much it affects the game. I don't think it changes what the Cavs do though. Focus will be mostly on Haliburton and Siakam. Perhaps also Nembhard as well depending on the rotations the Pacers use. Turner, while a nice player, I don't believe an offensive engine for them.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I don't think the Cavs are deeper, which is crazy to say because they're one of the deepest teams in the league.

Cavs will play the below 8, big minutes

Garland
Mitchell
Strus
Mobley
Allen
Jerome
Hunter
Merrill

Then Wade and Okoro are going to see spot minutes, rounding out their 10. I don't think any other Cav touches the floor in meaningful minutes.

I'm not as well versed on Pacers ball but if the 1st series is any indication the below 11 guys are probably going to see the floor every night, even if for just 1 second.

Hali
Siakam
Turner
Nesmith
Nembhard
Toppin
McConnell
Mathurin
Walker
Ben Sheppard
Bryant

I disagree, mostly because I think the Cavs starters playing fewer minutes speaks to how much they trust their bench guys and thus their depth. Jerome, Hunter, Merrill get a lot of floor time and I think that speaks to the depth. Wade and Okoro are rotation guys, but there is no hesitancy by Atkinson to use them more than spot minutes. Even Green has been given meaningful minutes lately as he gets more familiar with the team.

I'm not sure how many actual players the Pacers will get on the floor in a given game, but I know our 1 through 10 are trusted fully. Only time I think there is any limitation is with Okoro if he is going to be left open on the 3, but even that is pretty rare that adjust because of that.

I guess depth is up for interpretation. I think of it as both how deep you go into your roster and how much time and/or role they play in the game.

I think the Cavs starters playing less minutes has much more to do with them having 40 point leads than it does they trusting their bench.

To be clear, the Cavs absolutely trust their bench, as they should, but in the playoffs, the reason for the low minutes for starters is significantly effected by them blowing the Heat out of the stadium…at least in my opinion.

[oikosnomos]

I disagree, mostly because I think the Cavs starters playing fewer minutes speaks to how much they trust their bench guys and thus their depth. Jerome, Hunter, Merrill get a lot of floor time and I think that speaks to the depth. Wade and Okoro are rotation guys, but there is no hesitancy by Atkinson to use them more than spot minutes. Even Green has been given meaningful minutes lately as he gets more familiar with the team.

I'm not sure how many actual players the Pacers will get on the floor in a given game, but I know our 1 through 10 are trusted fully. Only time I think there is any limitation is with Okoro if he is going to be left open on the 3, but even that is pretty rare that adjust because of that.

I guess depth is up for interpretation. I think of it as both how deep you go into your roster and how much time and/or role they play in the game.

I think the Cavs starters playing less minutes has much more to do with them having 40 point leads than it does they trusting their bench.

To be clear, the Cavs absolutely trust their bench, as they should, but in the playoffs, the reason for the low minutes for starters is significantly effected by them blowing the Heat out of the stadium…at least in my opinion.

Respectfully, I disagree. This has been the rotation all year. Jerome, Hunter, Merrill, Wade, Okoro all played 19 or more minutes a game in the regular season. It's not garbage time stuff, it's the rotation. The Heat series had Thompson, Tyson and Porter on the floor taking up some minutes. Those guys are not rotation players and really just reduced the regular guys overall minutes..

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I disagree, mostly because I think the Cavs starters playing fewer minutes speaks to how much they trust their bench guys and thus their depth. Jerome, Hunter, Merrill get a lot of floor time and I think that speaks to the depth. Wade and Okoro are rotation guys, but there is no hesitancy by Atkinson to use them more than spot minutes. Even Green has been given meaningful minutes lately as he gets more familiar with the team.

I'm not sure how many actual players the Pacers will get on the floor in a given game, but I know our 1 through 10 are trusted fully. Only time I think there is any limitation is with Okoro if he is going to be left open on the 3, but even that is pretty rare that adjust because of that.

I guess depth is up for interpretation. I think of it as both how deep you go into your roster and how much time and/or role they play in the game.

I think the Cavs starters playing less minutes has much more to do with them having 40 point leads than it does they trusting their bench.

To be clear, the Cavs absolutely trust their bench, as they should, but in the playoffs, the reason for the low minutes for starters is significantly effected by them blowing the Heat out of the stadium…at least in my opinion.

Respectfully, I disagree. This has been the rotation all year. Jerome, Hunter, Merrill, Wade, Okoro all played 19 or more minutes a game. It's not garbage time stuff, it's the rotation. The Heat series had Thompson, Tyson and Porter on the floor taking up some minutes. Those guys are not rotation players and really just reduced the regular guys overall minutes..

Fair enough, I concede as you know them better than me.

[oikosnomos]

Fair enough, I concede as you know them better than me.

Guess it just depends on any persons interpretation of "depth" on the roster. Should be a fun series.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Fair enough, I concede as you know them better than me.

Guess it just depends on any persons interpretation of "depth" on the roster. Should be a fun series.

Oh, I mean, personally I still think the Pacers have better depth, but yes, it could be defined in different ways as well. But I concede that you know the Cavs rotation more than me and that the blowouts didn’t really affect it.

[jbk1234]

The Pacers are a good team, but the Cavs have kind of had their number the last two years.

The Cavs will win the series, they are just further along that the Pacers are, and that’s okay.

But the Cavs are 3-5 against the Pacers over their last 8 games. Obviously two of those this year were meaningless, but still 3-3 without those games. How is that having their number?

Not to mention the Pacers ended the Cavs streak earlier this year too.

A lot of those games were with the Cavs missing key guys. The games where the Cavs have been at full strength have been Ws.

[sp6r=underrated]

I really don't know how to feel about this one. I under-estimated both clubs in the first round. Miami wasn't anything special but the ease with which Cleveland dismissed them was impressive. Milwaukee is a flawed team but again a similar story. I didn't think Indy would be able to get rid of em that fast. And as bisme37 pointed out, Indy gave a much better account of themselves vs Boston last year than the simple 0-4 look.

I guess I'll go Cleveland in 6 but I really don't have a good feel for either team.

[JujitsuFlip]

I think the Cavs starters playing less minutes has much more to do with them having 40 point leads than it does they trusting their bench.

To be clear, the Cavs absolutely trust their bench, as they should, but in the playoffs, the reason for the low minutes for starters is significantly effected by them blowing the Heat out of the stadium…at least in my opinion.

Respectfully, I disagree. This has been the rotation all year. Jerome, Hunter, Merrill, Wade, Okoro all played 19 or more minutes a game. It's not garbage time stuff, it's the rotation. The Heat series had Thompson, Tyson and Porter on the floor taking up some minutes. Those guys are not rotation players and really just reduced the regular guys overall minutes..

Fair enough, I concede as you know them better than me.

You being the Pacers fan what is your opinion on their depth?

Your starters for game 1 seem locked and will play as much a normal... Turner, Siakam, Nesmith, Hali, and Nembhard.

But beyond that like what is the hierarchy?

Mathurin is important, right?
McConnell and Jerome will be the battle of the backup guards off the bench.
Is Toppin the first 'big' off the bench or no?
Is Walker ahead of Sheppard or is it matchup/flow dependant? Are they the same?
Is it safe to assume Bryant is the 11th man or he gets burn if you all go big?

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Respectfully, I disagree. This has been the rotation all year. Jerome, Hunter, Merrill, Wade, Okoro all played 19 or more minutes a game. It's not garbage time stuff, it's the rotation. The Heat series had Thompson, Tyson and Porter on the floor taking up some minutes. Those guys are not rotation players and really just reduced the regular guys overall minutes..

Fair enough, I concede as you know them better than me.

You being the Pacers fan what is your opinion on their depth?

Your starters for game 1 seem locked and will play as much a normal... Turner, Siakam, Nesmith, Hali, and Nembhard.

But beyond that like what is the hierarchy?

Mathurin is important, right?
McConnell and Jerome will be the battle of the backup guards off the bench.
Is Toppin the first 'big' off the bench or no?
Is Walker ahead of Sheppard or is it matchup/flow dependant? Are they the same?
Is it safe to assume Bryant is the 11th man or he gets burn if you all go big?

I don’t know that there is a hierarchy. It just changes game to game. Like I said, the Pacers just look for the best shot, they don’t care who takes it. The Pacers feel comfortable with their top 11 players getting minutes in the playoffs. Sheppard hasn’t struggled some with his shot this year, but his defense/energy get him minutes. Bryant was killing it earlier on for us, but had since quieted down a bit. Even so, they got minutes in the Bucks series.

Even Jarace Walker at 21 years old, was subbed onto the court for the Bucks final possession in OT with the task of guarding Giannis. Siakam having 5 fouls is a factor, but to tell a 21 year old you trust him to cover Giannis is still showing a lot of faith.

They just have 11 good basketball players. Kinda impossible for all 11 to make a significant impact in every game, but they all show up enough that Pacers fans don’t really have guys we hate to see on the court.

[JujitsuFlip]

Fair enough, I concede as you know them better than me.

You being the Pacers fan what is your opinion on their depth?

Your starters for game 1 seem locked and will play as much a normal... Turner, Siakam, Nesmith, Hali, and Nembhard.

But beyond that like what is the hierarchy?

Mathurin is important, right?
McConnell and Jerome will be the battle of the backup guards off the bench.
Is Toppin the first 'big' off the bench or no?
Is Walker ahead of Sheppard or is it matchup/flow dependant? Are they the same?
Is it safe to assume Bryant is the 11th man or he gets burn if you all go big?

I don’t know that there is a hierarchy. It just changes game to game. Like I said, the Pacers just look for the best shot, they don’t care who takes it. The Pacers feel comfortable with their top 11 players getting minutes in the playoffs. Sheppard hasn’t struggled some with his shot this year, but his defense/energy get him minutes. Bryant was killing it earlier on for us, but had since quieted down a bit. Even so, they got minutes in the Bucks series.

Even Jarace Walker at 21 years old, was subbed onto the court for the Bucks final possession in OT with the task of guarding Giannis. Siakam having 5 fouls is a factor, but to tell a 21 year old you trust him to cover Giannis is still showing a lot of faith.

They just have 11 good basketball players. Kinda impossible for all 11 to make a significant impact in every game, but they all show up enough that Pacers fans don’t really have guys we hate to see on the court.

Hey, that's a good 'problem' to have and as a UK guy, i know if Jackson was healthy, he'd get minutes too.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

You being the Pacers fan what is your opinion on their depth?

Your starters for game 1 seem locked and will play as much a normal... Turner, Siakam, Nesmith, Hali, and Nembhard.

But beyond that like what is the hierarchy?

Mathurin is important, right?
McConnell and Jerome will be the battle of the backup guards off the bench.
Is Toppin the first 'big' off the bench or no?
Is Walker ahead of Sheppard or is it matchup/flow dependant? Are they the same?
Is it safe to assume Bryant is the 11th man or he gets burn if you all go big?

I don’t know that there is a hierarchy. It just changes game to game. Like I said, the Pacers just look for the best shot, they don’t care who takes it. The Pacers feel comfortable with their top 11 players getting minutes in the playoffs. Sheppard hasn’t struggled some with his shot this year, but his defense/energy get him minutes. Bryant was killing it earlier on for us, but had since quieted down a bit. Even so, they got minutes in the Bucks series.

Even Jarace Walker at 21 years old, was subbed onto the court for the Bucks final possession in OT with the task of guarding Giannis. Siakam having 5 fouls is a factor, but to tell a 21 year old you trust him to cover Giannis is still showing a lot of faith.

They just have 11 good basketball players. Kinda impossible for all 11 to make a significant impact in every game, but they all show up enough that Pacers fans don’t really have guys we hate to see on the court.

Hey, that's a good 'problem' to have and as a UK guy, i know if Jackson was healthy, he'd get minutes too.

He would take Bryant’s minutes as Bryant would have never been signed.

Honestly, we could have really used Jackson in this series and that dude can rebound better than any two other Pacers combined.

[Exp0sed]

Cavs in 6, maybe 5

Indy is a good team, Cleveland is a great team. great teams usually beat good teams. It's hard to see how Indy can overcome the size and rebounding disadvantage on both ends of the floor over a 7 games series.

[GiannisAnte34]

In their last 50 games.

Cavs - 36-14
Pacers - 35-15.

Some people didn't realize how quietly the Pacers have been a top 5 team in the NBA since December. Which ended up in them thinking the Bucks had a chance. I was so sure the Pacers were going to win it bordered on causing disinterest.

This is entirely different. I expect the Cavs should win, in 6 or 7. But the people thinking the Cavs will be able to just cruise should be shocked. This should be a good series.

I just think the Cavs are too talented to not figure this out. Allen is gonna have a series. If I'm Cleveland though I'm leery of a game 7. Indiana offense can go nuclear any given day. I wouldn't want a 1 game winner take all. It would make me nervous.

you make it sound like the Pacers blew out the Bucks 4 times. Games 2 and 5 were close despite Lillard contributing either absolutely nothing or close to nothing, then there was game 3 where the Bucks blew the Pacers out with Lillard acting only as a decoy. not to mention all the horribly suboptimal starting lineups Doc ran against a guard heavy offense that spotted Indy 10-15 points every 1st quarter. I really don't think the Pacers are all that good everything considered. They have depth but that doesn't do you any favor when your matched up with a team like Cleveland that is also pretty deep in their own right. Cleveland also doesn't play dumb defense, the Bucks were constantly overhelping leading to a wide open 3. I don't see the Cavs doing that consistently like the Bucks

Meh. The series is over, I know what you think. The Pacers won 4-1. The first two games weren't really close. The Bucks had a run each game that made you think .... "Ooh maybe!" but it wasn't sustainable or real.

At no point did I ever think the Bucks had a chance. From the last day of the regular season to yesterday. I was correct.

Keep in mind, you were the dude talking about the "Pacers are gonna FOLD" after the Bucks won games 3 and 4, you said. Screaming they were gonna sweep after game 2 Did they fold yesterday? Of course not, and easily could have packed it in and went to game 6. I get it, you think the Dame injury changed something. The Bucks were 32-26 with a healthy Giannis and Dame. It wasn't changing anything.

You've been continually wrong, but swearing you're still right and now you're bringing your wrong into a thread that isn't even about that anymore.

You will get no more responses here about something that has nothing to do with the current series.

Yea your 2nd best player being out in the series definitely has no change, that's a serious opinion

[oikosnomos]

Need to sit down and watch a bunch of tape on Indy. I’ve got no feel for how they play. I watched the games in January, but don’t remember much about them. The Bucks tape isn’t compelling because the Cavs aren’t built anything like the Bucks. I like the Pacers make up and construction though.