Describing SGA as a foul merchant seems extremely disingenuous.

[Handlez]

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Where’s the foul?

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Shot out of a cannon

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Trips over own feet

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Just flat out flops

Okay that's bad.

[zimpy27]

Seems like style points count.

Maybe we need Shaq and the Inside the NBA crew on the sidelines holding up score cards for how nice a scored basket was.

[sikma42]

Genuinely curious, how old are you? Asking bc I’m curious as to where you get your interpretation of in position and maybe it’s something that has changed in how basketball is taught.

There’s no point in nba history pre 60s-now that you can lose your position on defense (not be squared up in front of your man) then make contact with him while he’s either driving to the rim or in the process of shooting. Changing that would make nba basketball some weird football/basketball combo.

Besides…. SGA shot attempts in clips 1/2/4 were great looks at the rim. Play 3 was a bad call that got reversed. People complain as if he’s not attempting excellent shots while being fouled. With the exception of the shot he made while being horizontal basically. A lot of his shot attempts (foul or not) were really good looks.

You’re saying lose position. I’m questioning the definition of “in position” you seem to be using.

Fine that you don’t want to give your age or demographic. Not going to read further tho since it’s not responsive.

[walk with me]

SGA is slippery and changes direction constantly when driving, he used to be known for his euro and now defenders play him close, when he changes he gets bumped and fouled. If you don't defend SGA like this then he scores at a very high clip on drives. It's a tough cover.

100000%

I’m confused at what people are watching. SGA is SUPER slippery and shifty. You can’t bump a guy while he’s driving. I don’t understand what people are seeing but this foul merchant stuff is dishonest.

[AussieCeltic]

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Where’s the foul?

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?s=46

Shot out of a cannon

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Trips over own feet

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?s=46

Just flat out flops

1-2-4 he has his man beat on every play. You can’t collide with the offense once you’re out of position. Fixing it would make the nba a full contact sport. SGA would literally move the defense out of position with his craftiness. If you touch him after being moved from in front of him it’s literally a foul lol. Regardless if you fall or not.

3 was a bad call and it ended up getting reversed but okc kept possession.

Edit: 1 was a weird call but it’s not like SGA was “searching” for the foul. He made the bucket anyways and it was a great shot. How does the ref making a weird call make SGA a foul merchant?

Edit 2: complaining about the 2nd clip is especially dumb (bill simmons). SGA has a clear blow by. Antman lifts his elbow under SGAs arm. In what world is that “NOT” a foul?

These types of defensive actions happen on pretty much every single play and are let go - especially in the playoffs. The issue is that SGA accentuates contact and falls over. You can see him flying in the other direction or taking his own feet out.

If everyone did this and the game was called exactly the same, basketball would be unwatchable.

[PushDaRock]

You can’t make a judgment like this by looking at a box score. Watch the game. When he’s being put on the line he’s trying to create GREAT LOOKS. If he’s getting fouled in the process than it’s bad defense.

Big diff between getting fouled while looking for good shots and doing what harden and Tatum do by lifting their arms into their defenders arms while driving recklessly to the basket

I did watch the game and half of those calls aren't fouls let's be real. Shai initiates the contact, flops with his arm and proceeds to fall to the ground.

That's not basketball

It is basketball. Nba rules are designed to protect and benefit the offense. Once the defender is shifted out of position and to the side of the offense. The defense can’t continue to try and impede the offenders profess.

SGAs ability creates the space and it’s up to the defense to play honestly or foul. They choose to foul. Harden, Embiid and Tatum are more FT merchants than SGA is. SGA to me is extremely crafty. I don’t think people understand how good SGA is because of how his box score FTs look at the end of a game.

I would actually agree with this take. The vast majority of the time he is creating contact after getting the defender off balance/out of position where they are forced to either just let SGA go by them or try to recover and when SGA feels them impeding his drive, he creates the contact before going into his shot. I find that different than Embiid and Harden who are literally jumping into defenders who are already going backwards.

[threethehardway]

Let's be honest.

You can't be superstar point of attack guard without drawing close to 10 free throws a game.

The game is too hard

The whole point of the game is to point the ball ik the hoop.

[TacoLord]

SGA's reaction to this thread:

[walk with me]

Genuinely curious, how old are you? Asking bc I’m curious as to where you get your interpretation of in position and maybe it’s something that has changed in how basketball is taught.

There’s no point in nba history pre 60s-now that you can lose your position on defense (not be squared up in front of your man) then make contact with him while he’s either driving to the rim or in the process of shooting. Changing that would make nba basketball some weird football/basketball combo.

Besides…. SGA shot attempts in clips 1/2/4 were great looks at the rim. Play 3 was a bad call that got reversed. People complain as if he’s not attempting excellent shots while being fouled. With the exception of the shot he made while being horizontal basically. A lot of his shot attempts (foul or not) were really good looks.

You’re saying lose position. I’m questioning the definition of “in position” you seem to be using.

Fine that you don’t want to give your age or demographic. Not going to read further tho since it’s not responsive.

My age doesn’t matter. I know the rules of basketball.

I’m not quoting the rule book perfectly but you should be shoulders squared to your defender. Not perfectly of course. Once you break the plane of shoulders squared you’re out of position. Once you make contact with the offense while being out of position and they’re driving or shooting it’s a foul. Majority of today’s fouls on SGA were in the process of SGA taking good shot attempts (not swinging his arm under the defense like harden)

This would be true in any era. I’m over 30 but the rules were the same in any decade of nba basketball. In previous eras before the 90s the guard play wasn’t so free flowing so these type of fouls were called less but the rules operated the same.

Here’s some comps
SGA FTA attempts this season: 8.8
Kevin Durant FTA attempts in 2011: 8.7
Kobe Bryant FTA attempts in 2001: 8.2
MJ FTA in 1991: 8.2
Adrian Dantley in 1981: 9.8

I suppose you’ll argue all fouls aren’t equal which is true but as long as SGA is attempting REAL SHOTS at the rim and isn’t swinging his arm into the defense arm like harden uses to do. I’m not calling him a merchant. Hes crafty as hell and a really creative scorer. Defenses need to stop trying to disrupt his path after getting burned.

[ImmortalD24]

I agree with the SGA being slippery take. His ability to change directions and find the gaps reminds me of an a slower yet longer Tony Parker.

[Petergrifindor]

[syrus3]

It is really not at all that shocking that FTA fans are in denial about the foul baiting tactics of him and his teammates.

[walk with me]

These types of defensive actions happen on pretty much every single play and are let go - especially in the playoffs. The issue is that SGA accentuates contact and falls over. You can see him flying in the other direction or taking his own feet out.

If everyone did this and the game was called exactly the same, basketball would be unwatchable.

This isn’t true. SGAs change of speed, body control, footwork, ball control and ability to stop on a dime and shoot a pull up makes him way different.

If everyone else tried this they’d fail miserably because they don’t have 20% of SGAs body or ball control. Only guys that do are probably Luka, Kyrie, Dame, Steph and that may be it (off top). Let’s comp all of their FTA rates this seasons

Luka: 7.9
SGA: 8.8
Dame: 6.8 (playing alongside giannis)
Steph: 4.3


Sure all fouls are different but bottom line. Nobody on this list is sticking their arm into their defenders arm and swinging up to create the illusion of a foul the way harden does. Thats foul baiting imo.

[sikma42]

There’s no point in nba history pre 60s-now that you can lose your position on defense (not be squared up in front of your man) then make contact with him while he’s either driving to the rim or in the process of shooting. Changing that would make nba basketball some weird football/basketball combo.

Besides…. SGA shot attempts in clips 1/2/4 were great looks at the rim. Play 3 was a bad call that got reversed. People complain as if he’s not attempting excellent shots while being fouled. With the exception of the shot he made while being horizontal basically. A lot of his shot attempts (foul or not) were really good looks.

You’re saying lose position. I’m questioning the definition of “in position” you seem to be using.

Fine that you don’t want to give your age or demographic. Not going to read further tho since it’s not responsive.

My age doesn’t matter. I know the rules of basketball.

I’m not quoting the rule book perfectly but you should be shoulders squared to your defender. Not perfectly of course. Once you break the plane of shoulders squared you’re out of position. Once you make contact with the offense while being out of position and they’re driving or shooting it’s a foul. Majority of today’s fouls on SGA were in the process of SGA taking good shot attempts (not swinging his arm under the defense like harden)

This would be true in any era. I’m over 30 but the rules were the same in any decade of nba basketball. In previous eras before the 90s the guard play wasn’t so free flowing so these type of fouls were called less but the rules operated the same.

Here’s some comps
SGA FGA attempts this season: 8.8
Kevin Durant FTA attempts in 2011: 8.7
Kobe Bryant FTA attempts in 2001: 8.2
MJ FTA in 1991: 8.2
Adrian Dantley in 1981: 9.8

I suppose you’ll argue all fouls aren’t equal which is true but as long as SGA is attempting REAL SHOTS at the rim and isn’t swinging his arm into the defense arm like harden uses to do. I’m not calling him a merchant. Hes crafty as hell and a really creative scorer. Defenses need to stop trying to disrupt his path after getting burned.

Thanks for explaining you definition of in position. That’s exactly what I don’t agree with and it’s not called like that anywhere else in the world and has never been called like that in the NBA (that’s not even the current interpretation). You can certainly be in legal guarding position without shoulders being squared. When someone is driving on an angle, you don’t have to constantly be square to them. You can be parallel and on your own plane. This issue that even when the defender is parallel SGA is able to subtly impede on their legal guarding position, embellish contact and draw fouls. That does two things, 1) obviously fouls, 2) changes how defenses have to play SGA.

The other issue with SGAs play style is that he allowed to dislodge players and there is no counter. No matter how hard he pushes off, as long as the arm isn’t extended you can’t take a charge. SGA could generate enough force to kill someone, and could actually do it but would never be called for an offensive foul if he arm didn’t “extend” . This is the same thing with Tatum as well. This is more a rule issue that SGA and others benefit from.

[DB23]

SGA is slippery and changes direction constantly when driving, he used to be known for his euro and now defenders play him close, when he changes he gets bumped and fouled. If you don't defend SGA like this then he scores at a very high clip on drives. It's a tough cover.

100000%

I’m confused at what people are watching. SGA is SUPER slippery and shifty. You can’t bump a guy while he’s driving. I don’t understand what people are seeing but this foul merchant stuff is dishonest.

He is super slippery and shifty, he also launches himself into the defender whenever he feels they are out of position. Maybe it’s smart, but it’s also annoying to watch.

And he gets a favorable whistle, usually that stuff isn’t called in the playoffs.

So yes i think a free throw merchant tag is fair.

[Petergrifindor]

OKC has a golden whistle. They have it this year and had it last year too.

In the case of SGA is unbearable.

[walk with me]

Thanks for explaining you definition of in position. That’s exactly what I don’t agree with and it’s not called like that anywhere else in the world and has never been called like that in the NBA (that’s not even the current interpretation). You can certainly be in legal guarding position without shoulders being squared. When someone is driving on an angle, you don’t have to constantly be square to them. You can be perpendicular and on your own plane. This issue that even when the defender is perpendicular SGA is able to subtly impede on their legal guarding position, embellish contact and draw fouls. That does two things, 1) obviously fouls, 2) changes how defenses have to play SGA.

Where I disagree with you is if you “start off” in a squared position on the player with the ball and then end up out of position because of the player with the ball and then impede the player with the balls path after being forced out of position by the same player. Then it’s a foul.

This is what makes SGA so dangerous. Majority of these fouls come after isolation possessions and the guy who’s guarding him in the iso is usually the one committing the foul. You’d almost be better off playing a zone and forcing okc to beat you from outside to stop this.

Denver toyed with it last series and had some success with it. Maybe a team with more athleticism would be even more successful. SGA is literally unguardable with or without the fouls

[ImmortalD24]

SGA is slippery and changes direction constantly when driving, he used to be known for his euro and now defenders play him close, when he changes he gets bumped and fouled. If you don't defend SGA like this then he scores at a very high clip on drives. It's a tough cover.

100000%

I’m confused at what people are watching. SGA is SUPER slippery and shifty. You can’t bump a guy while he’s driving. I don’t understand what people are seeing but this foul merchant stuff is dishonest.

He is super slippery and shifty, he also launches himself into the defender whenever he feels they are out of position. Maybe it’s smart, but it’s also annoying to watch.

And he gets a favorable whistle, usually that stuff isn’t called in the playoffs.

So yes i think a free throw merchant tag is fair.

If he was dunking from time to time and giving a highlight reel people wouldn't be too fixated on the free-throws. But unfortunately he doesn't have those physical tools so he has to win the game of inches and he has. I don't see anything wrong with it tbh.

[walk with me]

SGA is slippery and changes direction constantly when driving, he used to be known for his euro and now defenders play him close, when he changes he gets bumped and fouled. If you don't defend SGA like this then he scores at a very high clip on drives. It's a tough cover.

100000%

I’m confused at what people are watching. SGA is SUPER slippery and shifty. You can’t bump a guy while he’s driving. I don’t understand what people are seeing but this foul merchant stuff is dishonest.

He is super slippery and shifty, he also launches himself into the defender whenever he feels they are out of position. Maybe it’s smart, but it’s also annoying to watch.

And he gets a favorable whistle, usually that stuff isn’t called in the playoffs.

So yes i think a free throw merchant tag is fair.

I think the narrative has gotten carried away. People talk as if (today) he searches for the contact more than he searches for the shot. Majority of today’s possessions he was looking for GREAT shots while being fouled. Look at the 4 clips the poster on page 3 tried to use as an example. All 4 shots were terrific shot attempts. Play 3 was a bad call. Plays 1/2/4 were great shot attempts where he happened to get fouled.

I can’t agree with you if SGA is getting good looks in the process. He’s not doing the harden thing lifting his arm into the defense while no shot or a horrible shot attempt is available.

[zimpy27]

SGA is slippery and changes direction constantly when driving, he used to be known for his euro and now defenders play him close, when he changes he gets bumped and fouled. If you don't defend SGA like this then he scores at a very high clip on drives. It's a tough cover.

100000%

I’m confused at what people are watching. SGA is SUPER slippery and shifty. You can’t bump a guy while he’s driving. I don’t understand what people are seeing but this foul merchant stuff is dishonest.

He is super slippery and shifty, he also launches himself into the defender whenever he feels they are out of position. Maybe it’s smart, but it’s also annoying to watch.

And he gets a favorable whistle, usually that stuff isn’t called in the playoffs.

So yes i think a free throw merchant tag is fair.

Sometimes he also just changes direction and they are there. Again, he zigzags and always has, the main difference now is that defenders play him closer.