Is Siakam trade one of the most lopsided trades of recent times?

[TeamTragic]

The Raptors wouldn't have been able to sign Brandon Ingram as a free agent.

Ingram has had major health issues and constant injuries. Not sure why you think this was a good decision.

[Tor_Raps]

Horrible trade since Masai put himself in a position of 0 leverage. Indiana made out like bandits while the rest of the nba sucked on their thumbs by not outbidding that crappy offer.

At least Masai made the most out of the trade by coming away with Ingram + Walter + Ochai in the end. Still doesn't change the original value in the trade.

[Raps in 4]

No because Siakam was an expiring contract.

Masai's mistake was waiting until Suakam had 3 months left on his contract to trade him.

Getting 3x FRPs for an expiring second tier All-Star is fine return, in a vacuum.

[Tor_Raps]

The Raptors wouldn't have been able to sign Brandon Ingram as a free agent.

Ingram has had major health issues and constant injuries. Not sure why you think this was a good decision.

Buy low, sell high. Ingram wouldn't be the first player who was had at a lower value only to make the rest of the league and it's fan look stupid when they remain on the court.

Raptors are betting on this and we'll see soon enough if this was smart/stupid. Worst case, the raptors won't lose much from rolling the dice on him.

[dkb964]

Ujiri is way past his expiry as a top executive. That Ingram play will not work out as intended and Pascal is a much better player. They should have gotten a better return for him

It is easy to say that in hindsight, but at the time teams were not lining up to give away great assets for the privilegeof of paying a 31 year old Siakam almost 50M anunally over the following 4 years. The Pacers did because they can not attract free agents. I am happy that it has worked out for the Pacers and Siakam but don't act like there was some bidding war or they let some great offer pass them by.

And who's fault is that? Majority of the fanbase wanted Siakam & OG traded a season earlier but Masai refused to because he didn't want to tank. No team is going to waste assets on a half season rental.

I was in the majority, with that being said ending up with Ingram/Agbaji/Walter for a pending free agent in Siakam was a positive outcome I believe. Ingram is one of only 6 players in the NBA to average 22/5/5 over the last four seasons and is still only 27 years of age. Agbaji is a very good 3 & D player that shot 50% FG and 40% 3pt last season. Walter is only 20 years of age and showed promise as a rookie. At 6 foot 5 with a 6 foot 10 wingspan has potential as he is also quick and athletic. We are talking about Pascal Siakam here not Tim Duncan. That is a solid B for the Raptors at least and not this crazy lopsided trade. Silly talk.

[Raps in 4]

It is easy to say that in hindsight, but at the time teams were not lining up to give away great assets for the privilegeof of paying a 31 year old Siakam almost 50M anunally over the following 4 years. The Pacers did because they can not attract free agents. I am happy that it has worked out for the Pacers and Siakam but don't act like there was some bidding war or they let some great offer pass them by.

And who's fault is that? Majority of the fanbase wanted Siakam & OG traded a season earlier but Masai refused to because he didn't want to tank. No team is going to waste assets on a half season rental.

I was in the majority, with that being said ending up with Ingram/Agbaji/Walter for a pending free agent in Siakam was a positive outcome I believe.

I don't think Ingram is a positive, but I am happy that we finally did move on from the Siakam-FVV-OG core, it just happened way too late. And then we only spent one season actually rebuillding after. We better pray Scottie develops a shot and a handle this off-season or it's going to be a long era of mediocrity.

[TeamTragic]

The Raptors wouldn't have been able to sign Brandon Ingram as a free agent.

Ingram has had major health issues and constant injuries. Not sure why you think this was a good decision.

Buy low, sell high. Ingram wouldn't be the first player who was had at a lower value only to make the rest of the league and it's fan look stupid when they remain on the court.

Raptors are betting on this and we'll see soon enough if betting on Ingram was smart/stupid. Worst case, the raptors won't out much from rolling the dice on him.

True. You got him for almost nothing and hopefully he can stay on the court.

[Raps in 4]

It’s way too early to say the Jakobe is nothing special. Ingram hasn’t even played a game….

The fact that Ingram hasn't even played a game is a strike against the trade, not in favor of it.

He was ready to go this season. We kept him out to not jeopardize the tank.

I don't like the BI trade, but him being out all of this season was by design.

[Wargreymon]

Easily the worst trade in NBA history especially if the Pacers win it all. The OG trade is the second most lopsided trade. RJ is basically the new gen Derozan reincarnated and IQ is injury prone. Masai needs to be fired.

[Dan Z]

It's complete cope from Raptors fans that it's actually a Pascal for Ingram trade. The Raptors got lucky that Ingram had a five-month ankle sprain that tanked his value and there's still no sign that he is capable of leading a winning team.

I was surprised that the Raptors traded for Ingram, but I know they did it because they got him at a "discount" (trade wise..not his contract).

I can't help but wonder what the Raptors long term plans are. They have a group of talented players that don't seem to fit well together. Maybe next season is the year that it works out?

[Dan Z]

The Raptors wouldn't have been able to sign Brandon Ingram as a free agent.

Ingram has had major health issues and constant injuries. Not sure why you think this was a good decision.

I didn't say it was a good or even bad decision. I just pointed out that they couldn't get him through free agency.

[TorontoBarneys]

Paul George is unmoveable. Quickley is an asset. He struggled with injuries all year. I imagine you only watched the Raptors when they played the 76ers. I would rather have IQ at 30M then Maxey at whatever stupid money he is making. They are similar players. The 76ers just let him jack bad shots all game to the tune of 33% from three on the season.

Quickley is absolutely not an asset. His value is neutral at best. My god the cope.

This is fair. He is coming off of a season where he only played 33 games. A better way to have worded it would have been that he has the ability to make himself an asset if he is able to stay healthy next season and play to his capabilities.

Sure, I'll agree with that. Here's hoping.

[NoBias]

Recency bias on realgm is always hilarious.

It went from Masai is overvaluing Pascal and OG!!! The Raptors overrate all their assets!!!

To:

Is the pascal trade the most lopsided trade of all time? LOL.

[Raps in 4]

It's complete cope from Raptors fans that it's actually a Pascal for Ingram trade. The Raptors got lucky that Ingram had a five-month ankle sprain that tanked his value and there's still no sign that he is capable of leading a winning team.

I was surprised that the Raptors traded for Ingram, but I know they did it because they got him at a "discount" (trade wise..not his contract).

I can't help but wonder what the Raptors long term plans are. They have a group of talented players that don't seem to fit well together. Maybe next season is the year that it works out?

Masai hates rebuilding. He loves treadmilling. He wants us to be"ready" to compete when another Kawhi trade materializes.

[Raps in 4]

Recency bias on realgm is always hilarious.

It went from Masai is overvaluing Pascal and OG!!! The Raptors overrate all their assets!!!

To:

Is the pascal trade the most lopsided trade of all time? LOL.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I distinctly remember many, if not most, posters on here saying that Indy and NYK overpaid for Pascal and OG.

[Dan Z]

It's complete cope from Raptors fans that it's actually a Pascal for Ingram trade. The Raptors got lucky that Ingram had a five-month ankle sprain that tanked his value and there's still no sign that he is capable of leading a winning team.

I was surprised that the Raptors traded for Ingram, but I know they did it because they got him at a "discount" (trade wise..not his contract).

I can't help but wonder what the Raptors long term plans are. They have a group of talented players that don't seem to fit well together. Maybe next season is the year that it works out?

Masai hates rebuilding. He loves treadmilling. He wants us to be"ready" to compete when another Kawhi trade materializes.

The Raptors might be waiting for a long time or might not have enough assets to make that trade.

For example, Giannis might be available this off season and the Raptors don't have enough to outbid other teams.

[Raps in 4]

I was surprised that the Raptors traded for Ingram, but I know they did it because they got him at a "discount" (trade wise..not his contract).

I can't help but wonder what the Raptors long term plans are. They have a group of talented players that don't seem to fit well together. Maybe next season is the year that it works out?

Masai hates rebuilding. He loves treadmilling. He wants us to be"ready" to compete when another Kawhi trade materializes.

The Raptors might be waiting for a long time or might not have enough assets to make that trade.

For example, Giannis might be available this off season and the Raptors don't have enough to outbid other teams.

I agree. Masai doesn't see it that way though, which is a problem.

I'm torn on moving on from him though. He's one of the best drafting executives in the league, which is such a rare but important skill to have (I'd argue it's the most important skill for an executive).

We also have one of the dumbest owners in pro sports who would be hiring his replacement, and that does not instill me with any amount of confidence.

[HotelVitale]

Masai hates rebuilding. He loves treadmilling. He wants us to be"ready" to compete when another Kawhi trade materializes.

The Raptors might be waiting for a long time or might not have enough assets to make that trade.

For example, Giannis might be available this off season and the Raptors don't have enough to outbid other teams.

I agree. Masai doesn't see it that way though, which is a problem.

I'm torn on moving on from him though. He's one of the best drafting executives in the league, which is such a rare but important skill to have (I'd argue it's the most important skill for an executive).

We also have one of the dumbest owners in pro sports who would be hiring his replacement, and that does not instill me with any amount of confidence.

This is probably not the place to get into this but I really really don’t think basketball fans should think that ‘draft skill’ is a real thing. Or at least not that there’s anything remotely close to a special intuition that some GMs have that allows them to squint and which prospects will translate and develop and which won’t. GMs all see pretty similar things in most prospects and then just take guesses about translation and development, and those who are having nice runs like Masai are just having nice runs that will even out over time. Even if we admit that some depts/FOs are better than others (they are) the advantages gained are much smaller than the full ability to actually predict draft successes and failures.

There’s a lot to this argument and I don’t want to derail this But I’ll just say that this is how GMs and scouts talk about the draft and prospect eval, and that if you follow through the thought about what this draft ‘skill’ might entail—and you’re not assuming that most FOs are incompetent (they aren’t)—you’ll end up talking about quasi-magical abilities at some pt.

Anyway, just saying that if you’re only behind Masai because his picks have generally turned out well, I’d be comfortable backing off that some and not seeing that as irreplaceable.

[Raps in 4]

The Raptors might be waiting for a long time or might not have enough assets to make that trade.

For example, Giannis might be available this off season and the Raptors don't have enough to outbid other teams.

I agree. Masai doesn't see it that way though, which is a problem.

I'm torn on moving on from him though. He's one of the best drafting executives in the league, which is such a rare but important skill to have (I'd argue it's the most important skill for an executive).

We also have one of the dumbest owners in pro sports who would be hiring his replacement, and that does not instill me with any amount of confidence.

This is probably not the place to get into this but I really really don’t think basketball fans should think that ‘draft skill’ is a real thing. Or at least not that there’s anything remotely close to a special intuition that some GMs have that allows them to squint and which prospects will translate and develop and which won’t. GMs all see pretty similar things in most prospects and then just take guesses about translation and development, and those who are having nice runs like Masai are just having nice runs that will even out over time. Even if we admit that some depts/FOs are better than others (they are) the advantages gained are much smaller than the full ability to actually predict draft successes and failures.

There’s a lot to this argument and I don’t want to derail this But I’ll just say that this is how GMs and scouts talk about the draft and prospect eval, and that if you follow through the thought about what this draft ‘skill’ might entail—and you’re not assuming that most FOs are incompetent (they aren’t)—you’ll end up talking about quasi-magical abilities at some pt.

Anyway, just saying that if you’re only behind Masai because his picks have generally turned out well, I’d be comfortable backing off that some and not seeing that as irreplaceable.

Some FOs are objectively better than others at drafting and development. It's completely asinine to argue that it isn't a skill.

An inability to draft and develop talent is the main reason why cellar-dwelling franchises get stuck there for so long.

[The Duke]

Masai totally screwed himself for not trading Siakam a lot earlier (at a higher value), and got nothing for him.

Rest of the league screwed up by not beating that terrible offer.

Masai has been straight trash GM since 2019