Peak Kevin Durant added to Michael Jordan's NBA Finals opponents.

[NBA_is_cringe]

Deserves a suspension, perhaps a flat out banning, for trying to make the board dumber.

Yea Hakeem imo is a top 10 player of all time and was incredible during Houstons 94/95 final runs. He was probably the second best player in the league a good portion of the 90s. Saying he was a second tier star is criminal.

So it’s criminal to think the best player of all time who won 6 championships during the same decade as Hakeem was in a tier by himself?

according to your logic, mj is a second tier player compared to bill russell

[kazyv]

Rodman would eat him alive

Peak KD would utterly embarrass Rodman. He'd have no answer for KD's combination of size, length, handle and shooting touch. People also forget, younger KD was a good athlete. He used to posterize guys every now and then.

The answer is zero. You're talking about adding a guy who has arguably one of the ~15 highest peaks ever and putting him on teams that were already good enough to get to the finals.

right, that's why peak KD was guarded by CP3. how about this, you need a reality check. all three, MJ/Pippen/Rodman would be able to give KD fits.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Just like Lebron would.

Bron would prolly have too much pride to join MJ but definitely the second tier stars like Barkley , Malone, Olajuwon, Robinson

In what world is Hakeem a second tier star?

In the world of millenials who started watching NBA when he was already in Miami and were made to believe this superteam crap is the normality, and now are on a mission to educate us.

[Eric Millegan]

Bulls win all of them. Jordan’s cutthroat.

[KayDee35]

Of course the other teams would win, maybe the Bulls steal onr somewhere, but it basically means:

1991 - KD replaces Sam Perkins until James Worthy is out. Probably the best chance for the Bulls due to Worthy's and Scott's injuries.
1992 - Terry Porter - Clyde Drexler - Durant - Buck Williams - Duckworth + Uncle Cliffy, Ainge & Kersey from the bench
1993 - KJ - Thunder Dan - KD - Barkley - Mark West + Dumas, Ainge & Chambers from the Bench
1996 - Payton - Hawkins - KD - Kemp - Brickowski/Johnson + Schrempf (2x 6th man of the year, Perkins & McMillan of the Bench
1997 & 1998 - Stockton - Hornaceck - KD - Malone - Ostertag + Russell from the bench

The Bulls team coming off their 72-win season were preseason favorites the following year at -125 (bet $125 to win $100) which is extremely rare and a testament to how good that team was.

Prior to acquiring KD, the Warriors (who lost in the Finals to LeBron's Cavs) were at +215 and the Cavs were at +280. That all changed once KD joined the Warriors.

The Warriors were preseason favorites at -128, -187, and -175 for the next three years.

Those are insane numbers and should quell any doubt about what adding KD to a Finals team would do. The Bulls are going 0-6 against those teams if they add KD.

[MavsDirk41]

He would finally have some competition. Instead of beating up on Dan Majerle or Jeff Hornacek

“Fan of the greats” - from this century only….

[Dino353]

Yeah but then you also have to give the Bulls peak Wade+ peak Bosh followed by peak Love + peak Kyrie.

With that level of depth MJ doesn't burn out and take a break. I'd say Bulls win 8 straight

What guarantees you he even fits in with Wade/Bosh or Kyrie/Love? He's not the all-around player LeBron is to make it work

He fit better with an on ball player(Pippen) than LeBron did with any of his on ball teammates.

Jordan is the better on ball scorer and is like 3 worlds better off the ball than LeBron.

You are out of your mind dude saying Jordan is "3 worlds" better off the ball than LeBron let alone on ball scorer. Assuming we are talking about a prime LeBron James here there is no Jordan who was ever better than a 12-13 LeBron James off ball or on ball. Jordan isn't and never was the swiss army knife LeBron has been his entire career, LeBron is a jack of all trades when it comes to basketball and can play all 5 positions

[MavsDirk41]

What guarantees you he even fits in with Wade/Bosh or Kyrie/Love? He's not the all-around player LeBron is to make it work

He fit better with an on ball player(Pippen) than LeBron did with any of his on ball teammates.

Jordan is the better on ball scorer and is like 3 worlds better off the ball than LeBron.

You are out of your mind dude saying Jordan is "3 worlds" better off the ball than LeBron let alone on ball scorer. Assuming we are talking about a prime LeBron James here there is no Jordan who was ever better than a 12-13 LeBron James off ball or on ball. Jordan isn't and never was the swiss army knife LeBron has been his entire career, LeBron is a jack of all trades when it comes to basketball and can play all 5 positions

Jordan didnt quit playing defense when he aged so he could preserve his energy for the offensive side of the court.

James played off-ball in 12/13? Since when?

[Dino353]

He fit better with an on ball player(Pippen) than LeBron did with any of his on ball teammates.

Jordan is the better on ball scorer and is like 3 worlds better off the ball than LeBron.

You are out of your mind dude saying Jordan is "3 worlds" better off the ball than LeBron let alone on ball scorer. Assuming we are talking about a prime LeBron James here there is no Jordan who was ever better than a 12-13 LeBron James off ball or on ball. Jordan isn't and never was the swiss army knife LeBron has been his entire career, LeBron is a jack of all trades when it comes to basketball and can play all 5 positions

Jordan didnt quit playing defense when he aged so he could preserve his energy for the offensive side of the court.

James played off-ball in 12/13? Since when?

He was literally off the ball 70-80 percent of the time alongside Wade and converting at close to 60 percent of his shots, first team all-nba and first team all-defense. Well Jordan had all-nba defenders backing him up in Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman so he never had the level of responsibility LeBron had on defense, that is not mentioning Ron Harper,Horace Grant, and BIll Cartwright

[lessthanjake]

I think people are going a bit overboard here. Peak Durant was really good, but the scale of how much a great player moves outcomes isn’t as big as some people think.

Impact data would suggest that peak Durant tends to move things about 5 or 6 points per 100 possessions he’s on the court. Let’s assume 5.5 points per 100 possessions—which is probably generous, since we are assuming he could maintain the same impact when on teams that wouldn’t be built around him. And Durant wouldn’t be playing all the minutes. Peak Durant averaged about 40 MPG in the playoffs. So he’d only be playing like 83% of the minutes. Meanwhile, those Finals were also played at pretty glacial pace. Given the pace of those games and an assumption that Durant would play 40 MPG, we are looking at an expectation that Durant would move the average scoreline by the following in each Finals, with the average margin of victory of each series in reality in parentheses):

1991: 3.93 (Bulls average MOV: +9.8)
1992: 4.25 (Bulls average MOV: +7.3)
1993: 4.11 (Bulls average MOV: +0.0)
1996: 3.86 (Bulls average MOV: +3.8)
1997: 3.86 (Bulls average MOV: +0.6)
1998: 3.79 (Bulls average MOV: +7.8)

So the Bulls’ average margin of victory in 1991, 1992, and 1998 was significantly larger than the amount we’d expect Durant to move things on average. Meanwhile, the Bulls’ average margin of victory in 1996 was essentially equal to the effect we’d think Durant would have. Finally, the Bulls’ margin of victory in 1993 and 1997 was lower than the effect we’d expect Durant to have on average.

If the impact we’d expect Durant to have on average is smaller than the amount by which the Bulls outplayed their Finals opponent on average, then we would expect that the Bulls would likely still win the series if you added Durant. Which means we should probably expect the Bulls would still win 3 or 4 titles.

Of course, this isn’t some mechanical calculation that leads to a concrete result. As with any player, Durant doesn’t play the same all the time, so he would have more impact in some series and less impact in others. Also, in this hypothetical world, the games would naturally unfold differently, so players on both teams might have more or less impact in the series than they did in reality. Furthermore, the Bulls could also lose a series where they had a higher average margin of victory, or vice versa. So this isn’t to say that the Bulls would definitely win certain series or lose others. All outcomes are possible (even 0 titles or 6 titles). But looking at the average impact we’d expect from peak Durant and mapping that onto the average margin of victory in those series should give us the most reasonable baseline prediction. And that baseline prediction is that the Bulls would probably still win 3 or 4 titles.

[The Servant]

Imagine KD from 1994-1997 when they shortened the 3 point line by a foot and a half? He is a career 40% shooter from 3 I gotta imagine he'd cook those seasons.

His length and help d at his peak were pretty impactful as well.

[KrAzY3]

Yeah but then you also have to give the Bulls peak Wade+ peak Bosh followed by peak Love + peak Kyrie.

With that level of depth MJ doesn't burn out and take a break. I'd say Bulls win 8 straight

What guarantees you he even fits in with Wade/Bosh or Kyrie/Love? He's not the all-around player LeBron is to make it work

Jordan won at every level. The idea that there would be fit issues is kind of funny considering his success with Worthy in college, with other amateurs in the Olympics, my understanding is he was even winning exhibition games as an amateur against NBA players prior to joining the NBA.

So, to me I generally find the idea laughable that Jordan wouldn't fit well with other players, and this is based on what I find to be an entirely backwards premise that he just happened to get lucky and land the ultimate wing-man in Pippen. It's the other way around though, Pippen only had success with Jordan.

[The Servant]

Bron would prolly have too much pride to join MJ but definitely the second tier stars like Barkley , Malone, Olajuwon, Robinson

In what world is Hakeem a second tier star?

Everyone was second tier to MJ

I wonder how MJs career would look in Hakeems spot on the Rockets, and how Hakeem would look with Pippen and Rodman as his teammates.

[KrAzY3]

In what world is Hakeem a second tier star?

Everyone was second tier to MJ

I wonder how MJs career would look in Hakeems spot on the Rockets, and how Hakeem would look with Pippen and Rodman as his teammates.

Hakeem played with Pippen... so we kind of know the answer to that.

Before anyone tries to claim this was washed up Pippen or something, it was literally the year after he won a championship with Jordan. That team had Barkley as well.

[jerok]

Well KD never won a title without a super team..

Same with mj

[GeorgeMarcus]

The poll results are pretty funny. This is all or nothin' apparently

[jerok]

Rodman would eat him alive

Peak KD would utterly embarrass Rodman. He'd have no answer for KD's combination of size, length, handle and shooting touch. People also forget, younger KD was a good athlete. He used to posterize guys every now and then.

The answer is zero. You're talking about adding a guy who has arguably one of the ~15 highest peaks ever and putting him on teams that were already good enough to get to the finals.

These kinda posts are hilarious. Rodman was quick himself, and one of the greatest defenders of all time. KD may score well on him, but he's not gonna embarrass Rodman. It would be a fun matchup.

Rodman most definitely would be capable of getting enough stops to help the Bulls win, and the 96 Bulls would have other pieces that can also fill in his spot at guarding Malone.

Grant on the other hand would have a harder time guarding KD if the 91 Lakers, 92 Blazers, or 93 Suns added Durant. Pippen would do a much better job in that scenario. He wont be able to block him, but Pippen would be quick enough to get some stops. Durant would have to figure out who hes going to guard primarily between Jordan and Pippen.

Honestly out of all these teams. I'd say funny enough the Sonics, the team KD started out with would be his best shot at beating the Bulls along side. KDs length, speed, etc next to Payton and Kemp would make them that much more dangerous. That Sonics team already had killer 3 point shooting from Detlef and Hawkins and Sam Perkins, With KD out there too they'd have an even better one. The Suns 3 point shooting improve too, but I'm not so sure Barkley and KD click.

Let’s say I agree with you and Rodman shut down KD (will never happen by the way)

Would Dennis also guard the other players he had a hand full with, like Karl, kemp etc?

He is so good that he would shut down both kd + kemp and Malone. Which bulls piece are u talking about that would guard Malone? Outside of Dennis?

Lols, very one sided thinking.

This is why, 90s delusional are so laughable.
No matter what the circumstance is, 90s will always be better than anything the preceded or succeeded it.
Even adding an all time great player like KD who pretty much has no comparable in the 90s wouldn’t make a difference, cause it’s the 90s.

[Dino353]

Yeah but then you also have to give the Bulls peak Wade+ peak Bosh followed by peak Love + peak Kyrie.

With that level of depth MJ doesn't burn out and take a break. I'd say Bulls win 8 straight

What guarantees you he even fits in with Wade/Bosh or Kyrie/Love? He's not the all-around player LeBron is to make it work

Jordan won at every level. The idea that there would be fit issues is kind of funny considering his success with Worthy in college, with other amateurs in the Olympics, my understanding is he was even winning exhibition games as an amateur against NBA players prior to joining the NBA.

So, to me I generally find the idea laughable that Jordan wouldn't fit well with other players, and this is based on what I find to be an entirely backwards premise that he just happened to get lucky and land the ultimate wing-man in Pippen. It's the other way around though, Pippen only had success with Jordan.

Vice versa Jordan only had success with Pippen, we never saw him do any winning without Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen. He never showed us anything outside of that triangle offense so it is very questionable him fitting in with any of the players LeBron ever won with. He was fortunate enough to have the structure he had in Chicago, practically had a perfect storm with Isiah,Magic, and Bird having to retire and Len Bias passing

[The Servant]

Everyone was second tier to MJ

I wonder how MJs career would look in Hakeems spot on the Rockets, and how Hakeem would look with Pippen and Rodman as his teammates.

Hakeem played with Pippen... so we kind of know the answer to that.

Before anyone tries to claim this was washed up Pippen or something, it was literally the year after he won a championship with Jordan. That team had Barkley as well.

Yeah, and I wonder how Steve Nash and Kobe together would have looked, as well as GP, Shaq, Malone and Kobe!!!

Guess we saw it so at no point would it have been good.

This thread title is literally about adding PEAK KD. Could you post their ages, or was Pippen like 34 and Hakeem 36?

[wade44]

Just like Lebron would.

Yea but Lebron would never escape his 2011 failure.. it was there for the taking it was all there you’re the favorites you have prime DWade by your side and you proceed to lose to the underdog Mavs.. a legitimate GOAT contender wouldn’t have that big of a blemish on his resume

Lebron just couldn’t be a robin in that series, he’d rather lose than let d wade outshine him and be the best player