Flagg preseason debut: looking as good as advertised at 18 years old

[Lalouie]

he's got all the tools/mindset and the physical ability to produce hilite clips,,,and the nba has a low bar

ROY, AS, TOP10 potential for the next 10yrs
he already has a 20m lead in the 400

[bonita_the_frog]

Cooper Flagg is probably going to win more MVPs than anyone in the next 15 years and is my co-favorite player-

[MarcusBrody]

KG did not have the offensive capability or handle that Flagg has.

Kevin Garnett had a terrific handle for his size and would regularly play Point-Guard for Minnesota in stints because his teammates literally couldn't dribble the ball up the court under pressure without turning it over.

KG is arguably one of the more significant victims of playing in the era that he did, even when you igonre how badly he was hosed playing for the incompetent Minnesota Timberwolves. He should have been used as a greater offensive hub with shooters around him at every position, and his stupid (but automatic) 22-footers should have been three-point attempts.

Yes, people being offended about KG/Flagg comparison just shows how far hype train went before his first Nba game.

I don't think people are offended by suggestions that he'd reach KG's level: that's a best case scenario for basically any player ever coming into the league since him save maybe LeBron and Wemby.

But people can definitely quibble on whether it makes sense to compare them play style wise. Garnett is notably bigger. He measured 6'11" barefoot at the combine. Flagg measured 6'7.75". That's always going to change their profile a good bit. Flagg much more likely to be a wing/slasher and primary/secondary ball handler (though Garnett did work as a secondary - and occasionally even primary - ball handler at times) through out his career.

[Rainwater]

Kevin Garnett had a terrific handle for his size and would regularly play Point-Guard for Minnesota in stints because his teammates literally couldn't dribble the ball up the court under pressure without turning it over.

KG is arguably one of the more significant victims of playing in the era that he did, even when you igonre how badly he was hosed playing for the incompetent Minnesota Timberwolves. He should have been used as a greater offensive hub with shooters around him at every position, and his stupid (but automatic) 22-footers should have been three-point attempts.

Yes, people being offended about KG/Flagg comparison just shows how far hype train went before his first Nba game.

I don't think people are offended by suggestions that he'd reach KG's level: that's a best case scenario for basically any player ever coming into the league since him save maybe LeBron and Wemby.

But people can definitely quibble on whether it makes sense to compare them play style wise. Garnett is notably bigger. He measured 6'11" barefoot at the combine. Flagg measured 6'7.75". That's always going to change their profile a good bit. Flagg much more likely to be a wing/slasher and primary/secondary ball handler (though Garnett did work as a secondary - and occasionally even primary - ball handler at times) through out his career.

Pretty much my point

[MrGoat]

Flagg is so lucky he is going to an established team with legit vets/star players to learn from rather than shouldering the entire load of a trash team by himself

Lucky for now. Once Kyrie and AD get too old he'll be shouldering the entire load of trash team all by himself when you look at the lack of draft assets in the future, I really think they should consider moving AD and Kyrie to build around Flagg's timeline

[bonita_the_frog]

Flagg is so lucky he is going to an established team with legit vets/star players to learn from rather than shouldering the entire load of a trash team by himself

Lucky for now. Once Kyrie and AD get too old he'll be shouldering the entire load of trash team all by himself when you look at the lack of draft assets in the future, I really think they should consider moving AD and Kyrie to build around Flagg's timeline

But Flagg could attract free agents to Dallas, because he's such an unselfish player AND person, he's a more personable down-to-earth version of LeBron.

[Bob8]

Kevin Garnett had a terrific handle for his size and would regularly play Point-Guard for Minnesota in stints because his teammates literally couldn't dribble the ball up the court under pressure without turning it over.

KG is arguably one of the more significant victims of playing in the era that he did, even when you igonre how badly he was hosed playing for the incompetent Minnesota Timberwolves. He should have been used as a greater offensive hub with shooters around him at every position, and his stupid (but automatic) 22-footers should have been three-point attempts.

Yes, people being offended about KG/Flagg comparison just shows how far hype train went before his first Nba game.

I don't think people are offended by suggestions that he'd reach KG's level: that's a best case scenario for basically any player ever coming into the league since him save maybe LeBron and Wemby.

But people can definitely quibble on whether it makes sense to compare them play style wise. Garnett is notably bigger. He measured 6'11" barefoot at the combine. Flagg measured 6'7.75". That's always going to change their profile a good bit. Flagg much more likely to be a wing/slasher and primary/secondary ball handler (though Garnett did work as a secondary - and occasionally even primary - ball handler at times) through out his career.

The quote was, "KG did not have the offensive capability or handle that Flagg has." That's not talking about play style.

My question is, which offensive capabilities and handle has Flagg and KG didn't have?

[Bob8]

One freak of nature and other 2 having in common clear advantage in their bodies development, which can be tricky.

A good point. No matter what a player's skills and BBIQ, he can't properly show them at the NBA level until he has a man's body. All three of those guys did as teenagers, as does Cooper.

So I should modify my previous thoughts -- I think I am pretty good at identifying early maturing guys who really, truly can play the game, as opposed to those who have something missing. But I wouldn't presume to be able to judge later-maturing players -- say, the 19-year old versions of SGA or Wade.

All those who are early in their bodies development look incredibly in college, because their peers are just too much handicapped to play against them. That advantage vanishes in Nba, so too be truly great you need to develop skills, which is not exactly given like many people believe and might be more important at the end, because there really aren't bad athletes in Nba. That's why you have absurd draft choices, for example Ayton and Bagley over Luka. And that's why you can't say someone will be superstar after 1 preseason game.

[ryguy613]

He was also the number one pick; he was playing really well against Team USA at 17, and he has been considered an excellent talent. One of his weaknesses is his ball-handling skills. He went up against Wallace, who is considered one of the better on-ball defenders, and attacked him and did great. Even though it was a pre-season game, everything we have been told so far showed up in those 14 minutes. So making those comparisons is not far-fetched. It would, of course, be very different if he were a second-round pick who had a good game. The game was more of a soft stamp of what is to come.

Making any kind of conclusions after game like that is far-fetched, especially comparing him with LeBron. Or saying he's suddenly a Pg material. It doesn't mean we can't talk about him as future superstar after seeing him playing in multiple RS games. How many #1 picks were labelled as future superstars before they played a single game and it didn't end well? Look at top Nba players at the moment, only Luka was top 10 pick.

I would not make comparison from Jamal Mashburn, Dirk to KG and LeBron as conclusions It is just that everything till now has been as good as advertised.

What first round pick from the last 20 years doe she remind you off, not when it comes to playstyle, but rather characther?

what do you mean by character, exactly? im really not following

[ryguy613]

He scored 10 points in 14 minutes of a preseason game and according to this thread hes a mix of LeBron, Luka, Dirk, Kawhi, and KG. Guys... are you ok?

Kawhi doesn't belong on that list because nobody thought he was special coming out of college. But the others do, because the point of the comparisons is not the specifics of how they played, but instead the general perception of "wow, this guy was born to play basketball." In the second quarter of Monday's game, Cooper was the best player on the court -- in his first NBA appearance, at age 18.

That's born to play basketball.

There have been plenty of "wow this guy was born to play basketball" players drafted who people similarly predicted would run the league in a few years, only for that never to come close to happening. Do I really need to go down the list of Simmons, Zions, Blakes... etc... I've heard this one before. I'm not up here telling people not to be excited. I'm not even up here arguing he wont be great. I'm here to tell you guys to relax, and let the kid play for a bigger sample size that 14 minutes of a preseason game before we put him in the hall of fame.

[bonita_the_frog]

The difference between Flagg and all the other "born to play basketball" players, is that Flagg looks just as great defensively as he does offensively.
Whereas Zion and LeBron were way better offensively than defensively, and Simmons was way better defensively than offensively.
LeBron improved his defense to All-Defensive level, but was still way better offensively...

Flagg is born to be the best defender and offender in the NBA simultaneously.
When was the last time somebody did that?
Was Olajuwon ever the best offender in the NBA? Not sure, but he was the best defender in the NBA.
Olajuwon wasn't an elite playmaker, whereas Flagg has elite playmaking skills in addition to elite scoring skills potentially.

[Bob8]

Flagg is so lucky he is going to an established team with legit vets/star players to learn from rather than shouldering the entire load of a trash team by himself

Lucky for now. Once Kyrie and AD get too old he'll be shouldering the entire load of trash team all by himself when you look at the lack of draft assets in the future, I really think they should consider moving AD and Kyrie to build around Flagg's timeline

But Flagg could attract free agents to Dallas, because he's such an unselfish player AND person, he's a more personable down-to-earth version of LeBron.

People really don't understand that LeBron and MJ are basketball legends because they had exactly the right character to succeed? Unselfishness's and being down to earth rarely makes you a superstar.

Flagg is just a talented rookie not any kind of LeBron's version.

[Bob8]

The difference between Flagg and all the other "born to play basketball" players, is that Flagg looks just as great defensively as he does offensively.
Whereas Zion and LeBron were way better offensively than defensively, and Simmons was way better defensively than offensively.
LeBron improved his defense to All-Defensive level, but was still way better offensively...

Flagg is born to be the best defender and offender in the NBA simultaneously.
When was the last time somebody did that?
Was Olajuwon ever the best offender in the NBA? Not sure, but he was the best defender in the NBA.
Olajuwon wasn't an elite playmaker, whereas Flagg has elite playmaking skills in addition to elite scoring skills potentially.

Elite playmaking skills and elite scoring skills? And the best defender? Even MJ didn't have everything.

[bonita_the_frog]

Flagg is just a talented rookie not any kind of LeBron's version.

From what we've seen so far Flagg is just as good at passing as rookie LeBron was, and a better shooter than rookie LeBron, and a better defender than rookie LeBron. His handles are about the same as rookie LeBron, and his slashing we'll see.

Elite playmaking skills and elite scoring skills? And the best defender? Even MJ didn't have everything.

I think Jordan would have led the NBA in assists if he was willing to settle for 22ppg like Magic Johnson did.
Jordan got 15 triple doubles when he played Point Guard for a portion of the 1988-89 season, and Jordan averaged 11.4 assists in the 1991 NBA Finals.
Larry Bird was elite playmaking and elite scoring and made the All-Defensive Team THREE times, despite not being the athlete that Flagg is.
I think Flagg has the potential to be the best all-around player we've ever seen, the perfect mixture of skill and athleticism.

[Bob8]

Flagg is just a talented rookie not any kind of LeBron's version.

From what we've seen so far Flagg is just as good at passing as rookie LeBron was, and a better shooter than rookie LeBron, and a better defender than rookie LeBron. His handles are about the same as rookie LeBron, and his slashing we'll see.

Elite playmaking skills and elite scoring skills? And the best defender? Even MJ didn't have everything.

I think Jordan would have led the NBA in assists if he was willing to settle for 22ppg like Magic Johnson did.
When Jordan played Point Guard during his 32-8-8 season he was a triple-double machine (he only played PG for a portion of that season, not the whole season).
Larry Bird was elite playmaking and elite scoring.

Not Bird and not MJ were elite playmakers, more importantly you're talking about their prime version, Flagg is far away from them at the moment and it's very unlikely he will ever get there, we're talking about the best of the best now.

[bonita_the_frog]

Flagg is just a talented rookie not any kind of LeBron's version.

From what we've seen so far Flagg is just as good at passing as rookie LeBron was, and a better shooter than rookie LeBron, and a better defender than rookie LeBron. His handles are about the same as rookie LeBron, and his slashing we'll see.

Elite playmaking skills and elite scoring skills? And the best defender? Even MJ didn't have everything.

I think Jordan would have led the NBA in assists if he was willing to settle for 22ppg like Magic Johnson did.
Jordan got 15 triple doubles when he played Point Guard for a portion of the 1988-89 season, and Jordan averaged 11.4 assists in the 1991 NBA Finals.
Larry Bird was elite playmaking and elite scoring and made the All-Defensive Team THREE times, despite not being the athlete that Flagg is.
I think Flagg has the potential to be the best all-around player we've ever seen, the perfect mixture of skill and athleticism.

Not Bird and not MJ were elite playmakers, more importantly you're talking about their prime version, Flagg is far away from them at the moment and it's very unlikely he will ever get there, we're talking about the best of the best now.

I've seen a lot of games this year of Larry Bird and his passing looks just as skillful as Magic Johnson's passing.

And Michael Jordan is the most entertaining passer I've ever seen, plus its obvious Jordan could average over 10 assists per game because whenever he played Point Guard that's exactly what happened, and when he chose to focus on assists in the 1991 Finals (obviously competing with Magic Johnson, just as he focused on 3-pointers to prove he could shoot better than Drexler in the 1992 Finals).
Jordan's big hands allow him to throw passes nobody else can throw, plus he's great at no-look passes.

Anyway, MJ and Bird are off-topic so I won't mention them again, I'm saying Flagg can be the best offensive and defensive player in the NBA, he's got the skills and athleticism to do it.

[Bob8]

From what we've seen so far Flagg is just as good at passing as rookie LeBron was, and a better shooter than rookie LeBron, and a better defender than rookie LeBron. His handles are about the same as rookie LeBron, and his slashing we'll see.


I think Jordan would have led the NBA in assists if he was willing to settle for 22ppg like Magic Johnson did.
When Jordan played Point Guard during his 32-8-8 season he was a triple-double machine (he only played PG for a portion of that season, not the whole season).
Larry Bird was elite playmaking and elite scoring.

Not Bird and not MJ were elite playmakers, more importantly you're talking about their prime version, Flagg is far away from them at the moment and it's very unlikely he will ever get there, we're talking about the best of the best now.

I've seen a lot of games this year of Larry Bird and his passing looks just as skillful as Magic Johnson's passing.

And Michael Jordan is the most entertaining passer I've ever seen, along with Magic, plus its obvious Jordan could average over 10 assists per game because whenever he played Point Guard that's exactly what happened, and when he chose to focus on assists in the 1991 Finals (obviously competing with Magic Johnson, just as he focus on 3-pointers to prove he could shoot better than Drexler in the 1992 Finals).

Anyway, MJ and Bird are off-topic so I won't mention them again, I'm saying Flagg can be the best offensive and defensive player in the NBA, he's got the skills and athleticism to do it.

I believe you're using elite a little bit too easily. Magic was light years better passer than Bird.

The best defensive player in the world where Wemby lives? The best offensive player with Luka, Shai and few others?

What elite skills Flagg possesses at the moment?

[bonita_the_frog]

I believe you're using elite a little bit too easily. Magic was light years better passer than Bird.

The best defensive player in the world where Wemby lives? The best offensive player with Luka, Shai and few others?

What elite skills Flagg possesses at the moment?

From what I've seen Flagg is a more skillful rookie than LeBron, so he's on target to be a better player than LeBron.

Flagg's passing AND handles both look as good as LeBron's, and Flagg's shooting and defense is better than LeBron's.
We''ll see as his rookie season progresses, but that's how it looks so far.

Shai played his worst basketball of the year in Game 6 (8 turnovers) and Game 7 (8-27 shooting) of the NBA Finals, so I'm not putting him at the top of offensive players.
I think Flagg will be a better offensive player than Doncic, because Doncic makes his teammates into spectators too often, plus he's turnover-prone and often throws the balls straight to defenders.

[Bob8]

I believe you're using elite a little bit too easily. Magic was light years better passer than Bird.

The best defensive player in the world where Wemby lives? The best offensive player with Luka, Shai and few others?

What elite skills Flagg possesses at the moment?

From what I've seen Flagg is a more skillful rookie than LeBron, so he's on target to be a better player than LeBron.
Flagg's passing AND handles both look as good as LeBron's, and Flagg's shooting and defense is better than LeBron's.
We''ll see as his rookie season progresses, but that's how it looks so far.
Shai played his worst basketball of the year in Game 6 (8 turnovers) and Game 7 (8-27 shooting) of the NBA Finals, so I'm not putting him at the top of offensive players.

You're basically putting Flagg as the best ever, before he has even played a Nba game.

You're putting Shai as the top offensive player, but you're putting Flagg?

[Mephariel]

Lucky for now. Once Kyrie and AD get too old he'll be shouldering the entire load of trash team all by himself when you look at the lack of draft assets in the future, I really think they should consider moving AD and Kyrie to build around Flagg's timeline

But Flagg could attract free agents to Dallas, because he's such an unselfish player AND person, he's a more personable down-to-earth version of LeBron.

People really don't understand that LeBron and MJ are basketball legends because they had exactly the right character to succeed? Unselfishness's and being down to earth rarely makes you a superstar.

Flagg is just a talented rookie not any kind of LeBron's version.

This. The idea that people are clamoring to play with Flagg over Lebron is just hilarious. Like who actually thinks this?