Wade in Tmac's Orlando situation

[Showtime:Part2]

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Definitely not.

Odom is a player very capable of running a team through, and obviously so. He anchored Miami's team for many parts during the season in 2003/2004, as he did in LA when Kobe was out that season, and also to start the season off last year, even WITH Kobe on the team; getting back from injury.

Haslem, as great of a player as he is, is a supplemental role player, who plays to his role; rebound, defend, effort, and score when given the shot; and he excels in that. But, he's not the same player Odom is/was for LA/Miami.....

odom averages 14 points as a second option. pathetic. sure odom has to run the team when kobe's out, but he's not so great when kobe's back. bynum is already more impt than him and farmar will be by next season.

haslem+cook>>odom. if not, want to trade?

[Showtime:Part2]

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What the hell are you talking about? I'm a Rockets fan and Yao was not granted that acknowldgement. He was considered the "best regular season" center at that time.

correct me if i'm wrong, but shaq was 2nd in mvp voting that year.

[DraftBoy10]

[quote="

[Flash3]

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Did I say you said Shaq made 0 impact on defense? I just said that in hyperbole form.

Zo's impact in the paint could've been better, but bottom line is Shaq's more of a presence as Zo's what on O? Shaq commands his ways on O. While Zo...is what? Someone you can rotate off of to trap Wade.

We're talking about defensive impact here, aren't we?

Offense and offensive impact on the floor is an entirely different case.

Say what you wish, but I'm sure if you irritate the arguement more, I'll have to bust out the facts and stats.

OMG!

[David Robinson]

What I still find interesting is that Wade currently nor McGrady during his tenure with the Magic get anywhere near the defensive attention that LeBron does with a poor roster.

I was watching that game on espn or tnt the other night, and Wade still gets to operate throughout the course of a game in one on one coverage.Mind blowing considering the roster is weak.

[DraftBoy10]

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correct me if i'm wrong, but shaq was 2nd in mvp voting that year.

Actually no, Nash won his MVP the first year he went to Phoenix(Shaq was 2nd that year). The following season when Nash won his 2nd(Shaq was 6th I believe and they went on to win the ring).

[DraftBoy10]

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All I get from this is your implying that defense and offense make no relation within each other? FYI, there directly related.

[Showtime:Part2]

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Actually no, Nash won his MVP the first year he went to Phoenix(Shaq was 2nd that year). The following season when Nash won his 2nd(Shaq was 6th I believe and they went on to win the ring).

6th isn't bad. so people clearly still thought he was a top 10 player.

[BBallFreak]

What the hell are you talking about? I'm a Rockets fan and Yao was not granted that acknowldgement. He was considered the "best regular season" center at that time.

Dude, I argued with some of the more obnoxious Rockets fans for weeks about which player was better. They threw out article after article, stat after stat, and never relented. Trust me, he was considered the better center, and not just by Rockets fans.

But that's what I'm talking about, anyways.

You say Shaq was better because you're trying to make T-Mac look better.

We've got people calling Shaq the reason the Heat won the championship, the anchor to our defense, and the more important player, all so they can make T-Mac look better.

Well let me tell you, I'm tired of dealing with it.

Once and for all, fair or not, T-Mac gets criticized because he's never led his team anywhere. Wade has. That's all.

[Flash3]

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All I get from this is your implying that defense and offense make no relation within each other? FYI, there directly related.

What was being implied was the defensive presence a Zo brings over a Shaq. Plain and simple.

They can be inversely related, so be it. -- But, when the Heat went to a defensive line-up, they put Zo @ the 5, and took Shaq out, and ran the offense through Wade.

[Flash3]

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Wade got past the first round in his first season playing against the Hornets?

T-Mac has the Mavericks(2nd round that year), Jazz(WCF that year) in his time with the Rockets. When you play against a difference of competition, you get a difference of results. When T-mac was in Orlando he played against the Hornets and Pistons, Wade had Riley, Butler, Odom, and a good Eddie Jones. T-Mac had Rivers, Gooden, and Darrel Armstrong. The heat with 4th seed, the Magic were always 8th seed. The fact that they got in the playoffs was remarkable on Tracy's behalf.

And, his team was a basket away from forcing a game 7 against the Indiana Pacers, the #1 seed in the East that season.

[L&H_05]

What I still find interesting is that Wade currently nor McGrady during his tenure with the Magic get anywhere near the defensive attention that LeBron does with a poor roster.

I was watching that game on espn or tnt the other night, and Wade still gets to operate throughout the course of a game in one on one coverage.Mind blowing considering the roster is weak.

He'll never get the same defensive attention.. He never has, and never will...

[DraftBoy10]

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Dude, I argued with some of the more obnoxious Rockets fans for weeks about which player was better. They threw out article after article, stat after stat, and never relented. Trust me, he was considered the better center, and not just by Rockets fans.

But that's what I'm talking about, anyways.

You say Shaq was better because you're trying to make T-Mac look better.

We've got people calling Shaq the reason the Heat won the championship, the anchor to our defense, and the more important player, all so they can make T-Mac look better.

Well let me tell you, I'm tired of dealing with it.

Once and for all, fair or not, T-Mac gets criticized because he's never led his team anywhere. Wade has. That's all.

Oh okay, all of a sudden obnoxious Rockets fans are the judges. Let them say what they wish, and you can say what you wish. You're not authoritative figure, neither am I.

The Rockets Head Coach(at the time), JVG. Stated Yao was the best regular season center, and that can't override into the playoffs...well because of Shaq. There's a reason why Shaq has the best averages of any player in the playoffs besides Jordan. (T-Mac actually has close 2nds, as Iverson is around 4th currently).

I am a Rockets fan myself and was very upset to the general lack of respect he got for not being "ahead" of Shaq. And even Amare for that case. However, league-wide within the people that actually matter...Shaq was the bigger problem. No questioning of it.

[DraftBoy10]

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And, his team was a basket away from forcing a game 7 against the Indiana Pacers, the #1 seed in the East that season.

No one cares about that. That's just padding it up now.

The Rockets were a defensive rebound away from winning the series with Utah last year, and were just a few calls short in Game 5 against the Mavericks from advancing with a 3-2 record rather than 2-3 record.

So for that record, it's the thought that matters?

[DraftBoy10]

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What was being implied was the defensive presence a Zo brings over a Shaq. Plain and simple.

They can be inversely related, so be it. -- But, when the Heat went to a defensive line-up, they put Zo @ the 5, and took Shaq out, and ran the offense through Wade.

What I am implying is that Shaq brings an overall bigger impact on the court.

Shaq's presence> Zo's presence

That covers in the entire facet of the game.

[BBallFreak]

Wow, who cares? Seriously, what difference does it make if Shaq was considered better or Yao was? They were both great! So, if Shaq was great enough to boost Wade to the point where he broke playoff records, why in all holy hell is Yao so crappy that he can't get McGrady out of the first round? See the stupidity in the argument?

Shaq didn't put up historic performances for Wade, he did it himself!

T-Mac gets criticized, fair or not, because he's never been out of the first round. Period. End of discussion...

[Showtime:Part2]

Wow, who cares? Seriously, what difference does it make if Shaq was considered better or Yao was? They were both great! So, if Shaq was great enough to boost Wade to the point where he broke playoff records, why in all holy hell is Yao so crappy that he can't get McGrady out of the first round? See the stupidity in the argument?

Shaq didn't put up historic performances for Wade, he did it himself!

T-Mac gets criticized, fair or not, because he's never been out of the first round. Period. End of discussion...

and wade gets criticized, fair or not, because he's last place in a horrendous conference.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

People in here are ridiculous..

I love how that 06 Heat team all of a sudden went from old and washed up saying we lost the trade and shoulda kept Damon Jones, Eddie Jones.

To being a great supporting cast coincidentally when Wade stepped his game up shooting nearly 60% vs. the Pistons..and 35ppg vs. the Mavs.

_________________________________________________________

Shaq was huge in the closeout games and a great 2nd option to hve, but he wasnt even our best center in the FINALS. We wanted to make it a "Shaq series" were all we had to do is dump it in, like the Lakers did. But Shaq wasnt anywhere close to his play in his prime..he turned it over, our offense was stagnant and we went down 2-0.

It wasnt until Game 3 that we went away from Shaq and thats where the series turned around...the offense was better, and defensively Zo was better.