Artest the real choice for DPOY

[LakersSquad]

One other thing to consider when discussing DPOY and Dwight Howard is the fact that the Orlando Magic led the league in defensive efficiency last year and are 3rd this year (100.0), behind LA (99.2) and Boston (99.6). When you consider the defensive capabilities of Orlando's starters vs. LA's, it becomes apparent how valuable Dwight Howard is at defending the basket.

Take away Ron Artest and the Lakers still have an All-NBA Defensive First Team candidate in Kobe Bryant, a solid defensive center in Bynum, and Gasol and Fisher, who aren't too shabby.

With Orlando, the only other guy in the starting lineup who can be considered an above-average defender is Matt Barnes. Jameer and VC are pretty awful, actually. Dwight is such a forceful presence in the middle that the Magic's lackluster defensive guards can get up on their man on the perimeter knowing that if they get blown by, D12 has their back.

Please Barnes & Nelson is better than Fisher and what we would have at SF if Ron wasn't here. Cut the bull and stop down playing them to make Howard this defensive beast.

[jzmagik]

I think it has alot more to do with Houston and Sacramento fans bitter that he is playing better defense for a hated team like the Lakers.

"Artest the real choice for DPOY" Lets give him the award because laker fans says so.
Last year it was Laker fans arguing Kobe should be DPOY, now its Artest. SMH

[LakersSquad]

So if Ron shoudnt get 1st or 2nd team ALL Defense , my guess would be that it should go to Lebron in your eyes, right? The same Lebron that in this very same post thread that takes it easy for the first 42 minutes. So, a free safety defender who only plays defense the last 6 minutes of the game is worthy over someone like Ron who focuses merely the entire game on defense?

Now, if my assumption is wrong about your Lebron pick, then who would deserve it more than Ron at the SF position?

Well, if you go read the "all-defensive selections" thread that was recently on here, I didn't have LeBron on EITHER team.



My four forwards are Gerald Wallace(1st team), Anderson Varejao(1st team), Josh Smith(2nd team), Shane Battier(2nd team).

Now, aside from arguments about 1st or 2nd team, etc etc...the only guy on that list that is questionable that Artest could replace without it being a sham is Shane Battier, and that is very arguable. I just feel that Battier is still a better defensive player than him from what I've seen both of them do this season,

Battier might be better than Ron but Wallace? Nope not at all. But so far this season Battier hasn't been on Rons level.

[GameOver25]

C'mon now Laker fans, lets be fair. Artest is solid no doubt. He's a solid 1 on 1 defender. But Howard wins this easily because he's the defensive anchor for the whole team. You guys have 7'3 Bynum and 7'0 Gasol also in the paint. And don't forget Kobe on the wing. Artest shouldn't even be in the same sentence as Howard for DPOY.

Pau has been terrible on defense this year don't make them into all defensive team bigs all of sudden. Yes their tall but so is dirk, shaq, Big Z, KG & wallace etc... Height doesn't = defense. Like I said before we're dead last in 3pt fg% since rons arrived. We're the best defensive team this year because of Ron.

Basically what I'm saying though is that Dwight's impact on defense is head and shoulders above Ron's impact. Agree or disagree?

[LakersSquad]

I think it has alot more to do with Houston and Sacramento fans bitter that he is playing better defense for a hated team like the Lakers.

"Artest the real choice for DPOY" Lets give him the award because laker fans says so.
Last year it was Laker fans arguing Kobe should be DPOY, now its Artest. SMH

Kobe DPOY? really when? Unless you can point out specific posters in this thread (and bring proof)I think you should avoid grouping us into party.

[Jimmy76]

I would give it to Ron

He's the only new addition to a team that has moved up to the number one defense in the league (and its not like he replaced a bad defender in ariza either)

his on court/off court and the lineup +/-'s indicate Artest is far and above having the biggest defensive impact on the number 1 team in league and they're better than Dwights on/off and lineup defensive +/-

Im not exactly a lakers fan either these arguments have credence on their own

[jzmagik]

It's easy to look good defensively if your help defense consists of two mobile seven footers.

Artest has been solid, but he's not a DPOTY and it will be a sham if he makes the 1st team and questionable at best if he makes the second team. He's limited in what he can do because of his declining lateral speed. Being physical against guys that can't blow by him and using his body and strength to get through screens is what he does well, and to his credit, that's what he's done. It's not DPOTY material though, that's for damn sure.

So if Ron shoudnt get 1st or 2nd team ALL Defense , my guess would be that it should go to Lebron in your eyes, right? The same Lebron that in this very same post thread that takes it easy for the first 42 minutes. So, a free safety defender who only plays defense the last 6 minutes of the game is worthy over someone like Ron who focuses merely the entire game on defense?

Now, if my assumption is wrong about your Lebron pick, then who would deserve it more than Ron at the SF position?

Seriously why even bring Lebron into this thread? When is your agenda going to stop?

[LLcoleJ]

So if Ron shoudnt get 1st or 2nd team ALL Defense , my guess would be that it should go to Lebron in your eyes, right? The same Lebron that in this very same post thread that takes it easy for the first 42 minutes. So, a free safety defender who only plays defense the last 6 minutes of the game is worthy over someone like Ron who focuses merely the entire game on defense?

Now, if my assumption is wrong about your Lebron pick, then who would deserve it more than Ron at the SF position?

Well, if you go read the "all-defensive selections" thread that was recently on here, I didn't have LeBron on EITHER team.

I don't actually follow your posts around. So, to refer to some other thread from another day is nice and all, but that is exactly why I followed up my point with " if my assumption is wrong, then who...etc"
anyway...

My four forwards are Gerald Wallace(1st team), Anderson Varejao(1st team), Josh Smith(2nd team), Shane Battier(2nd team).

Now, aside from arguments about 1st or 2nd team, etc etc...the only guy on that list that is questionable that Artest could replace without it being a sham is Shane Battier, and that is very arguable. I just feel that Battier is still a better defensive player than him from what I've seen both of them do this season,

So, if it not " your selections" it's a sham? got it. Since you said, all Artest is good at is busting screens. My conclusion is you haven't seen enough, from either player.

[LLcoleJ]

I think it has alot more to do with Houston and Sacramento fans bitter that he is playing better defense for a hated team like the Lakers.

"Artest the real choice for DPOY" Lets give him the award because laker fans says so.
Last year it was Laker fans arguing Kobe should be DPOY, now its Artest. SMH

A Laker fan, started a thread. I ( another laker fan) didnt agree with him but still discussing hos good Artest has been playing this year on D.

Last year.. it was Lakers fans arguing Kobe DPOY? what.. lol. ok.

Bitter.

[LakersSquad]

C'mon now Laker fans, lets be fair. Artest is solid no doubt. He's a solid 1 on 1 defender. But Howard wins this easily because he's the defensive anchor for the whole team. You guys have 7'3 Bynum and 7'0 Gasol also in the paint. And don't forget Kobe on the wing. Artest shouldn't even be in the same sentence as Howard for DPOY.

Pau has been terrible on defense this year don't make them into all defensive team bigs all of sudden. Yes their tall but so is dirk, shaq, Big Z, KG & wallace etc... Height doesn't = defense. Like I said before we're dead last in 3pt fg% since rons arrived. We're the best defensive team this year because of Ron.

Basically what I'm saying though is that Dwight's impact on defense is head and shoulders above Ron's impact. Agree or disagree?

Disagree. Like I said Barnes and Nelson are better or equal to Fisher and any other starter Not named Ron or Kobe on defense. the same way the magics defensive schemes are built around Howard ours is now built around having a great defender like Ron. We used to load up to keep players from getting into the paint. Before Kobes leaking used to hurt us now it doesn't because of Ron.

[LLcoleJ]

It's easy to look good defensively if your help defense consists of two mobile seven footers.

Artest has been solid, but he's not a DPOTY and it will be a sham if he makes the 1st team and questionable at best if he makes the second team. He's limited in what he can do because of his declining lateral speed. Being physical against guys that can't blow by him and using his body and strength to get through screens is what he does well, and to his credit, that's what he's done. It's not DPOTY material though, that's for damn sure.

So if Ron shoudnt get 1st or 2nd team ALL Defense , my guess would be that it should go to Lebron in your eyes, right? The same Lebron that in this very same post thread that takes it easy for the first 42 minutes. So, a free safety defender who only plays defense the last 6 minutes of the game is worthy over someone like Ron who focuses merely the entire game on defense?

Now, if my assumption is wrong about your Lebron pick, then who would deserve it more than Ron at the SF position?

Seriously why even bring Lebron into this thread? When is your agenda going to stop?

Ha, you either are trying to stir the pot or are not informed much about my 'agenda'. btw, I didnt bring up LBJ. Boobie did.

I think Wade or Bron could make a run at it one year, but they take it too easy on the defensive end for the first 42 minutes of games

and since I was unclear on his position and he is a CLE fan I asked him. I then had a disclaimer in there if my assumption was wrong.
try to keep up.

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I don't actually follow your posts around. So, to refer to some other thread from another day is nice and all, but that is exactly why I followed up my point with " if my assumption is wrong, then who...etc"
anyway...

Well, in case you thought I was lying or something you could "go read" that thread and see that I actually did post that. Not "if you had read".

So, if it not " your selections" it's a sham? got it. Since you said, all Artest is good at is busting screens. My conclusion is you haven't seen enough, from either player.

In my opinion, it's a sham if he gets selected over Gerald Wallace for the first team and questionable at best if he gets in over Shane Battier for the 2nd team. I think Gerald Wallace is an outstanding defender who can do a multitude of things whereas Artest can bust screens AND(Obviously you failed to read my entire post, I said he's good at being a strong physical defender on the guys who can't blow by him as well, it just so happens that his lateral speed has declined to a point where that only applies to certain players, good players, but I feel Wallace can guard a wider variety of players more effectively than Artest).

[Branduil]

Another player who becomes overrated as soon as he goes to the Lakers.

[magicman123]

I would give it to Ron

He's the only new addition to a team that has moved up to the number one defense in the league (and its not like he replaced a bad defender in ariza either)

his on court/off court and the lineup +/-'s indicate Artest is far and above having the biggest defensive impact on the number 1 team in league and they're better than Dwights on/off and lineup defensive +/-

Im not exactly a lakers fan either these arguments have credence on their own

artest on court: +9.2, off court: +2.6, net +6.25
howard on court: +9.2, off court: -5.4, net +14.6

here is an article on how important dwight is defensively against the lebrons/cavs

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/j ... index.html

[GameOver25]

You take Artest off Lakers they're still at least 10th-15th best defensive team in the league. You take Howard off the Magic, we plummet to like 20th or higher. That's how much he means to this team. And it's because of his help D. Gortat can defend in spurts, but not anchor a defense for a full season. Get real.

[microfib4thewin]

There are some people who love adjusted +/- too much. It's a good way to measure a player's impact compared to another player if they're on the same team because they would be working in the same environment. They would be playing with the same coach, play together on the court at the same time, and follow the same defensive scheme, but when the players are on different teams, then there are many variables that can cause one player to have a much higher +/- to his team compared to another player. Using the adjusted version of raw +/- works to a certain extent, but it still does not fully eliminate the variables I mentioned above.

I have been liking Artest's defensive intensity, but there are nearly half of the games where he was ineffective because he was too slow. There is no reason to put him as the frontrunner for DPOY, but he might get a shot if he continues to play this way the rest of the season.

[High 5]

Howard is obviously the DPOY.

[LLcoleJ]

In my opinion, it's a sham if he gets selected over Gerald Wallace for the first team and questionable at best if he gets in over Shane Battier for the 2nd team. I think Gerald Wallace is an outstanding defender who can do a multitude of things whereas Artest can bust screens AND(Obviously you failed to read my entire post, I said he's good at being a strong physical defender on the guys who can't blow by him as well, it just so happens that his lateral speed has declined to a point where that only applies to certain players, good players, but I feel Wallace can guard a wider variety of players more effectively than Artest).

Well, I hate to use a small sample size of games as an example. But if you look at the last few games. Ron has kept younger and faster players under their season avg.

Gay
Iggy
Melo
Granger

He did that by using his strength and speed. All of these guys for all intent and purpose are not guys I would consider in the "Can't blow by" category.

Not only does he bust screens he stays up in front of the player and stays with him as they attempt to create. Forcing the player to turn the ball over,pass out /steal etc.. These type of defensive plays are what defense is about IMO.

[jzmagik]

Ha, you either are trying to stir the pot or are not informed much about my 'agenda'. btw, I didnt bring up LBJ. Boobie did.

Boobie said in a later post that Lebron or Wade could have a run at it on eyear if they didn't slack for the first 42 minutes. Juding by your initial response, you didn't even see his post so you're still bringing Lebron into the discussion to advance your agenda.

Theres no reason to turn this into a pissing contest between the Lakers vs Lebron. Props to Boobie for not taking the bait..

[InBoobieWeTrust]

In my opinion, it's a sham if he gets selected over Gerald Wallace for the first team and questionable at best if he gets in over Shane Battier for the 2nd team. I think Gerald Wallace is an outstanding defender who can do a multitude of things whereas Artest can bust screens AND(Obviously you failed to read my entire post, I said he's good at being a strong physical defender on the guys who can't blow by him as well, it just so happens that his lateral speed has declined to a point where that only applies to certain players, good players, but I feel Wallace can guard a wider variety of players more effectively than Artest).

Well, I hate to use a small sample size of games as an example. But if you look at the last few games. Ron has kept younger and faster players under their season avg.

Gay
Iggy
Melo
Granger

He did that by using his strength and speed. All of these guys for all intent and purpose are not guys I would consider in the "Can't blow by" category.

Not only does he bust screens he stays up in front of the player and stays with him as they attempt to create. Forcing the player to turn the ball over,pass out /steal etc.. These type of defensive plays are what defense is about IMO.

Well, Granger, Gay, and Melo are the guys Ron Artest can still guard. They aren't lightning quick or overly explosive on their first step. Artest can guard those guys. He was brought in to guard those guys.

Ehh, actually, Gay is pretty explosive. Artest gets some serious credit for that one, but like I said, I still think Battier should get the edge because he's shown he can consistently guard multiple types of players. In-fact, if the Lakers had Battier instead of Artest right now, I'd be much more frightened of them.

Iguodala is more explosive than all of them and theoretically, but the Lakers pack the paint so effectively just as a rule of their defensive scheme that it's hard to tell whether it's Artest who's having the main impact on Iguodala rather than multiple 7 footers at the rim.