2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II

[aol4532]

The race should already be over. Keep in mind that Durant plays in the West, and according to my calculations at the time, an Eastern team gets to enjoy a 4 game advantage over the West, over a whole season. The East is better now, so maybe knock it down to 3. Since the difference between these guys are so close, you need to go into the details, and that means that unless the Heat finish 3 games ahead of the Thunder, the MVP should be Durant's.

[QPR]

Durant has been insane, and i don't want to take anything away from him, but Ibaka has been very impressive as well, and the OKC defense continues to get better.

I think just about every basket Ibaka has made in the last six weeks has been assisted by Durant. Those two have a crazy connection offensively.

[NaturalThunder]

Durant has been insane, and i don't want to take anything away from him, but Ibaka has been very impressive as well, and the OKC defense continues to get better.

I think just about every basket Ibaka has made in the last six weeks has been assisted by Durant. Those two have a crazy connection offensively.

That's another thing Durant's done during this stretch that has been really impressive. It was very obvious last year in the playoffs Ibaka was lost without Westbrook and that he and Durant had almost no chemistry; and it was still semi-true about a month and half ago when Westbrook got hurt again. I'm not going to say with certainty how it's happened, but now it seems pretty obvious KD and Ibaka have spent quite a bit of time working on their two man game. I'm sure it hasn't been easy since they've been playing basically every night or every other night for the last three weeks (schedule has been brutal lately), so I'm sure a lot of it has had to be during games. Regardless, now KD and Serge's chemistry is great.

[raps_aviator]

The race should already be over. Keep in mind that Durant plays in the West, and according to my calculations at the time, an Eastern team gets to enjoy a 4 game advantage over the West, over a whole season. The East is better now, so maybe knock it down to 3. Since the difference between these guys are so close, you need to go into the details, and that means that unless the Heat finish 3 games ahead of the Thunder, the MVP should be Durant's.

The race can't be over when only half the season has been played. Keep in mind Lebron is still the best player in the NBA. He is capable of going 30/10/10 for the rest of the season. I don't see him doing that but he is capable of doing it. More realistically, I see him averaging 28/8/8 for the rest of the season. You can see that he is trying harder now, playing more assertive unlike what we saw for the first 3 months. The last couple of games, he was really close to having tripple doubles, getting more steals, blocking shots.

[SDChargers#1]

The race should already be over. Keep in mind that Durant plays in the West, and according to my calculations at the time, an Eastern team gets to enjoy a 4 game advantage over the West, over a whole season. The East is better now, so maybe knock it down to 3. Since the difference between these guys are so close, you need to go into the details, and that means that unless the Heat finish 3 games ahead of the Thunder, the MVP should be Durant's.

The race can't be over when only half the season has been played. Keep in mind Lebron is still the best player in the NBA. He is capable of going 30/10/10 for the rest of the season. I don't see him doing that but he is capable of doing it. More realistically, I see him averaging 28/8/8 for the rest of the season. You can see that he is trying harder now, playing more assertive unlike what we saw for the first 3 months. The last couple of games, he was really close to having tripple doubles, getting more steals, blocking shots.

What is the argument for this? I think it has been pretty clearly Durant as the best player in the NBA this season.

[NaturalThunder]

The race should already be over. Keep in mind that Durant plays in the West, and according to my calculations at the time, an Eastern team gets to enjoy a 4 game advantage over the West, over a whole season. The East is better now, so maybe knock it down to 3. Since the difference between these guys are so close, you need to go into the details, and that means that unless the Heat finish 3 games ahead of the Thunder, the MVP should be Durant's.

The race can't be over when only half the season has been played. Keep in mind Lebron is still the best player in the NBA. He is capable of going 30/10/10 for the rest of the season. I don't see him doing that but he is capable of doing it. More realistically, I see him averaging 28/8/8 for the rest of the season. You can see that he is trying harder now, playing more assertive unlike what we saw for the first 3 months. The last couple of games, he was really close to having tripple doubles, getting more steals, blocking shots.

A few things:

1.) Most teams are at or near 50 games played, now. That's closer to 2/3 through the season than 1/2 the season.

2.) Durant has a considerable lead built up at this point, especially compared to whatever lead he might've had in the MVP race at this point last year. He's now played 24 games without Westbrook. OKC is 39-11, has the best record in the West, is just percentage points behind the Pacers for best record in the NBA, and Durant has a 112-95 win at Miami on his side while arguably outplaying (barely) LeBron.

3.) Due to the above, it would take a drastic drop-off from Durant and a major increase in production by LeBron for the race to become a nailbiter again.

4.) Even in the three games since the 30+ point streak ended, Durant is averaging 28-7-5 on 54% shooting and had a near 31-8-8 triple-double last night against a stout Grizzlies team who were 9-1 in their last 10 games.

[raps_aviator]

The race should already be over. Keep in mind that Durant plays in the West, and according to my calculations at the time, an Eastern team gets to enjoy a 4 game advantage over the West, over a whole season. The East is better now, so maybe knock it down to 3. Since the difference between these guys are so close, you need to go into the details, and that means that unless the Heat finish 3 games ahead of the Thunder, the MVP should be Durant's.

The race can't be over when only half the season has been played. Keep in mind Lebron is still the best player in the NBA. He is capable of going 30/10/10 for the rest of the season. I don't see him doing that but he is capable of doing it. More realistically, I see him averaging 28/8/8 for the rest of the season. You can see that he is trying harder now, playing more assertive unlike what we saw for the first 3 months. The last couple of games, he was really close to having tripple doubles, getting more steals, blocking shots.

What is the argument for this? I think it has been pretty clearly Durant as the best player in the NBA this season.

I agree that KD had a (much) better month of January than Lebron James. The first 2 months, I feel as if they were even. Lebron shot 61% FG and 48% 3pt and averaged 27 ppg during the month of November and averaged 25 ppg on 58% FG during the month of December. He did not score the ball much but he had an insane FG%. Durant did not play as well as he did the first 2 months compared to January. KD averaged 27 ppg of 44% FG during November and 29 ppg of 54% FG during December (which is amazing).

My argument is that saying KD is the best player in the NBA is way too premature just because he had 1 amazing month, when in the last 5 years, Lebron got 4 MVPS, 2 Finals MVP, 2 rings.

With all that being said, KD is clearly the MVP this season thus far, however I don't think the race is over. Do I think Lebron will end up getting the MVP this season? Not really.

[raps_aviator]

The race should already be over. Keep in mind that Durant plays in the West, and according to my calculations at the time, an Eastern team gets to enjoy a 4 game advantage over the West, over a whole season. The East is better now, so maybe knock it down to 3. Since the difference between these guys are so close, you need to go into the details, and that means that unless the Heat finish 3 games ahead of the Thunder, the MVP should be Durant's.

The race can't be over when only half the season has been played. Keep in mind Lebron is still the best player in the NBA. He is capable of going 30/10/10 for the rest of the season. I don't see him doing that but he is capable of doing it. More realistically, I see him averaging 28/8/8 for the rest of the season. You can see that he is trying harder now, playing more assertive unlike what we saw for the first 3 months. The last couple of games, he was really close to having tripple doubles, getting more steals, blocking shots.

A few things:

1.) Most teams are at or near 50 games played, now. That's closer to 2/3 through the season than 1/2 the season.

2.) Durant has a considerable lead built up at this point, especially compared to whatever lead he might've had in the MVP race at this point last year. He's now played 24 games without Westbrook. OKC is 39-11, has the best record in the West, is just percentage points behind the Pacers for best record in the NBA, and Durant has a 112-95 win at Miami on his side while arguably outplaying (barely) LeBron.

3.) Due to the above, it would take a drastic drop-off from Durant and a major increase in production by LeBron for the race to become a nailbiter again.

4.) Even in the three games since the 30+ point streak ended, Durant is averaging 28-7-5 on 54% shooting and had a near 31-8-8 triple-double last night against a stout Grizzlies team who were 9-1 in their last 10 games.

That's one of the reasons why I said the race is still not over. There is a high probability that KD does not average 36 ppg on 55% FG like he did during the month of January and instead averages 28/7/5 on 50%. There is also a high probability that Lebron stops having 15-16 attempts a game like he did during Nov & Dec, in other words stops "coasting" and starts shooting around 20 Field goals/game.

Please remember, I am not saying Lebron is the MVP. All I am saying is that the season is still not over and so isn't the race. You said most teams played close to 2/3 of the games. It doesn't matter because Miami has only played 56% of their season.

[koolcrud]

31-8-8 on 11/21 tonight against an always defensively tough Memphis team for Durant. OKC now 49-11 through 50 games, 17-7 without Westbrook on the year, and first place in the Western Conference. The absurd numbers for Durant aside, when you stepback and look at what he's doing in leading his team to the best record in the West and second best in the NBA without another All-Star teammate for essentially half the season, his season becomes even more impressive.

Durant has been insane, and i don't want to take anything away from him, but Ibaka has been very impressive as well, and the OKC defense continues to get better.

Perry Jones has also looked much better with greater opportunity and i think his defense, length and versatility is contributing greatly to OKCs defense.

Durant has been **** mental, but he is fortunate to also have a great defense behind him, which hasn't been the case in years gone past and is a massive reason why i have OKC as the real deal this season.

Only 1 team is top 5 in ORtg and DRtg - OKC (SA just miss out - 6th in O, 5th in D).

Balance on both sides of the ball wins rings. They had it last season, but losing Russell in the playoffs derailed it all. If he can get back, OKC are a real show this season.

It's not completely fair or accurate to describe the situation as a great defense "behind him", like he's Steve Nash or something. Durant is one of, if not the, biggest factor in OKC's excellent defense, he has simply been lock-down on the ball all season. I believe statistically, he has been the best iso defender in the NBA.

[RSCD3_]

31-8-8 on 11/21 tonight against an always defensively tough Memphis team for Durant. OKC now 49-11 through 50 games, 17-7 without Westbrook on the year, and first place in the Western Conference. The absurd numbers for Durant aside, when you stepback and look at what he's doing in leading his team to the best record in the West and second best in the NBA without another All-Star teammate for essentially half the season, his season becomes even more impressive.

Durant has been insane, and i don't want to take anything away from him, but Ibaka has been very impressive as well, and the OKC defense continues to get better.

Perry Jones has also looked much better with greater opportunity and i think his defense, length and versatility is contributing greatly to OKCs defense.

Durant has been **** mental, but he is fortunate to also have a great defense behind him, which hasn't been the case in years gone past and is a massive reason why i have OKC as the real deal this season.

Only 1 team is top 5 in ORtg and DRtg - OKC (SA just miss out - 6th in O, 5th in D).

Balance on both sides of the ball wins rings. They had it last season, but losing Russell in the playoffs derailed it all. If he can get back, OKC are a real show this season.

It's not completely fair or accurate to describe the situation as a great defense "behind him", like he's Steve Nash or something. Durant is one of, if not the, biggest factor in OKC's excellent defense, he has simply been lock-down on the ball all season. I believe statistically, he has been the best iso defender in the NBA.

Its not shortchanging durant to say that ibaka is the probable cornerstone of okc's defense and durant benefits from having a shot blocker behind him like that. Yeah durant helps on the perimeter and is a good defender but he isnt a defensive anchor at least yet.

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[kingkirk]

It's not completely fair or accurate to describe the situation as a great defense "behind him", like he's Steve Nash or something. Durant is one of, if not the, biggest factor in OKC's excellent defense, he has simply been lock-down on the ball all season. I believe statistically, he has been the best iso defender in the NBA.

Well, he does have great defense behind, whether he is contributing to that or not.

I am not knocking Durant. What i am saying is that if they were 10-14th in DRtg and he was going on this tear, they may not have as many wins as they do now.

Losing Westbrook has hurt them, but their defense has stood, which quite obviously Durant is a part of, but Jackson, Sefolsha, Ibaka, Adams and even now Jones have greatly assisted in this area.

My point is that whilst Durant is a god damn freak, Presti's move in trading Harden for depth is working over this stretch as teh Thunder have had big games from Adams & Lamb, whilst getting growth from Jackson & Ibaka through this stretch.

The Westbrook injury could be a blessing in disguise for the entire team going forward.

[SDChargers#1]

I agree that KD had a (much) better month of January than Lebron James. The first 2 months, I feel as if they were even. Lebron shot 61% FG and 48% 3pt and averaged 27 ppg during the month of November and averaged 25 ppg on 58% FG during the month of December. He did not score the ball much but he had an insane FG%. Durant did not play as well as he did the first 2 months compared to January. KD averaged 27 ppg of 44% FG during November and 29 ppg of 54% FG during December (which is amazing).

My argument is that saying KD is the best player in the NBA is way too premature just because he had 1 amazing month, when in the last 5 years, Lebron got 4 MVPS, 2 Finals MVP, 2 rings.

With all that being said, KD is clearly the MVP this season thus far, however I don't think the race is over. Do I think Lebron will end up getting the MVP this season? Not really.

OK I see, thanks for clarifying.

Essentially your argument is Lebron was the best the previous 4 years, so he gets the benefit of the doubt since this season is not over. I can respect that.

I would argue, though, that THIS season Durant has clearly been the best player in the NBA.

[raps_aviator]

I agree that KD had a (much) better month of January than Lebron James. The first 2 months, I feel as if they were even. Lebron shot 61% FG and 48% 3pt and averaged 27 ppg during the month of November and averaged 25 ppg on 58% FG during the month of December. He did not score the ball much but he had an insane FG%. Durant did not play as well as he did the first 2 months compared to January. KD averaged 27 ppg of 44% FG during November and 29 ppg of 54% FG during December (which is amazing).

My argument is that saying KD is the best player in the NBA is way too premature just because he had 1 amazing month, when in the last 5 years, Lebron got 4 MVPS, 2 Finals MVP, 2 rings.

With all that being said, KD is clearly the MVP this season thus far, however I don't think the race is over. Do I think Lebron will end up getting the MVP this season? Not really.

OK I see, thanks for clarifying.

Essentially your argument is Lebron was the best the previous 4 years, so he gets the benefit of the doubt since this season is not over. I can respect that.

I would argue, though, that THIS season Durant has clearly been the best player in the NBA.

This season so far Durant has been the best player. I think everyone agrees with that. I guess different people have different metric system. For me, I judge based on the past 1-2 years to now to see who the best player is. I can't judge who the best player is based on 1 month. I just look at a bigger sample size.

[NaturalThunder]

I agree that KD had a (much) better month of January than Lebron James. The first 2 months, I feel as if they were even. Lebron shot 61% FG and 48% 3pt and averaged 27 ppg during the month of November and averaged 25 ppg on 58% FG during the month of December. He did not score the ball much but he had an insane FG%. Durant did not play as well as he did the first 2 months compared to January. KD averaged 27 ppg of 44% FG during November and 29 ppg of 54% FG during December (which is amazing).

My argument is that saying KD is the best player in the NBA is way too premature just because he had 1 amazing month, when in the last 5 years, Lebron got 4 MVPS, 2 Finals MVP, 2 rings.

With all that being said, KD is clearly the MVP this season thus far, however I don't think the race is over. Do I think Lebron will end up getting the MVP this season? Not really.

OK I see, thanks for clarifying.

Essentially your argument is Lebron was the best the previous 4 years, so he gets the benefit of the doubt since this season is not over. I can respect that.

I would argue, though, that THIS season Durant has clearly been the best player in the NBA.

Even if Durant wasn't "clearly" the best player in the NBA this year, he still has the narrative and other things on his side. The fact that he's led OKC to a 39-11 start in the MUCH tougher Western Conference despite not having Westbrook for 24 games can't be overlooked. Then the fact that Durant went to Miami and, at the absolute very least, played LeBron to a standstill in the individual matchup while his team won in a blowout without Westbrook will carry some extra weight -- or at least it should carry some extra weight for the time being.

Pretty much Durant not only has the eye test, best performer in the league going for him so far this year, he's got the narrative/story angle working in his favor, too.

[Thundestruck]

King Cuban is spot on. I've been saying it for years as a lot of people started saying Ibaka was over rated on defense and just blocked shots. Ibaka is the absolute corner stone for everything the Thunder do on defense. It really can't be over sold what he means to the Thunder defense. That is not to take away from the improvement Durant has made on that side of the ball either.

[Thundestruck]

Of course there is a ton of basketball yet to be played but I don't think there is as much as some people think. Could James over take Durant? It definitely could happen. Lebron is a freak and we all know we he is capable of. At the same time, he needs to start outplaying Durant and he needs to start now. Matching Durant the rest of the season isn't going to get it done.

[barborous]

King Cuban is spot on. I've been saying it for years as a lot of people started saying Ibaka was over rated on defense and just blocked shots. Ibaka is the absolute corner stone for everything the Thunder do on defense. It really can't be over sold what he means to the Thunder defense. That is not to take away from the improvement Durant has made on that side of the ball either.

It was true before last year though, and true last year to an extent. He definitely used to be a guy whose flashy block numbers belied the fact that he was actually a defensive liability at times and gambled too often, but he's become much more solid in defensive fundamentals. Notice how his blocks have actually dropped a lot over the past two years; that's a sign of much improved discipline on defense.

[ChartFiction]

Another thing that's impressive to me is that with the sportsvu tracking, we can see how many minutes players hold the ball per game. Durant is a lot less ball dominant than Lebron even while he's doing all of this. This gives players like Reggie Jackson the OPPORTUNITY to step up.

[Wall34]

What is OKC record without Westbrook now? i am starting to lose count 17-7 or is it 18-7? Also how many times has Durant been player of the month for the West? I don't remember him playing that well in November but i do remember him winning it in December and now January.

[NaturalThunder]

What is OKC record without Westbrook now? i am starting to lose count 17-7 or is it 18-7? Also how many times has Durant been player of the month for the West? I don't remember him playing that well in November but i do remember him winning it in December and now January.

I believe that makes them 18-7 now without Westbrook, and it's not like their schedule has been a complete cakewalk, especially in this current 23 game stretch without Russ. Durant leading the team to a 40-11 start and best record in a very rugged Western Conference (first team in the league to 40 wins) without having Westbrook for 25 of those 51 games may be more impressive than the insane numbers he's put up this year. And I'm not insinuating he's doing it all by himself (Serge has REALLY stepped up his game and is playing much more like a legit #2 option), but he has been the biggest reason. No other All-Star teammates, and his team has won at a .720 clip in 25 games with some high quality wins.

And KD has won player of the month three times this year.