Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1)

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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#601 » by Sisqo » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:00 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:What I've heard about the name of the Spanish was flu, was that Spain was one of the few countries to openly report their cases and not cover it up, or their media to be blacked out like so many countries in the War.

As the pandemic reached epic proportions in the fall of 1918, it became commonly known as the “Spanish Flu” or the “Spanish Lady” in the United States and Europe. Many assumed this was because the sickness had originated on the Iberian Peninsula, but the nickname was actually the result of a widespread misunderstanding. Spain was one of only a few major European countries to remain neutral during World War I. Unlike in the Allied and Central Powers nations, where wartime censors suppressed news of the flu to avoid affecting morale, the Spanish media was free to report on it in gory detail. News of the sickness first made headlines in Madrid in late-May 1918, and coverage only increased after the Spanish King Alfonso XIII came down with a nasty case a week later. Since nations undergoing a media blackout could only read in depth accounts from Spanish news sources, they naturally assumed that the country was the pandemic’s ground zero. The Spanish, meanwhile, believed the virus had spread to them from France, so they took to calling it the “French Flu.”

While it’s unlikely that the “Spanish Flu” originated in Spain, scientists are still unsure of its source. France, China and Britain have all been suggested as the potential birthplace of the virus, as has the United States, where the first known case was reported at a military base in Kansas on March 11, 1918. Researchers have also conducted extensive studies on the remains of victims of the pandemic, but they have yet to discover why the strain that ravaged the world in 1918 was so lethal.


https://www.history.com/news/why-was-it-called-the-spanish-flu

Meanwhile it doesn't matter where it came from.
It's here and it impacts everyone, regardless of ethnicity or nationality.

Trump is doing no favor to anyone with what he is doing, but his defense is.. "well, they did it first, saying we sent it"
I love how 2 wrongs make a right in his childish mind. Meanwhile, why so defensive? Almost makes us look like we're hiding something.


THIS.

The whole point is why. if you know it impacts even a few people why bother calling it that? Does it really make things better by referring to it as Chinese vs Covid-19? As you said, its childish and also a little ignorant.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#602 » by Xpressure » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:01 pm

Anyone posted the Imperial College test on COVID-19?

Scary.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196234/covid19-imperial-researchers-model-likely-impact/

If not taken seriously, and if we hadn't acted on it, it could wipe out 2.2 million Americans.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#603 » by Catchall » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:03 pm

gavran wrote:
Catchall wrote:
gavran wrote:
Not the same thing.


Technically it is the same thing, but the Spanish Flu pandemic was three generations ago, so people aren't as sensitive about it.


Techically it's not the same thing, and the generational difference does not change that.

The Spanish flu is called Spanish, because the Spanish media was the one that started reporting on it, while other countries' media was preoccupied with something else. Theresfore it has no negative connotation to Spain. The Chinese Virus, while 100% true, does.


I'm not sure everyone would agree with you that calling the virus Chinese Flu has an inherently negative connotation. In any case, the flu spread from Wuhan. This is written into history now. If the U.S. and other countries had banned all travel from China sooner than they did, it would have prevented a number of deaths and lessened an economic disruption that itself is now likely to cause more deaths. At some point when the smoke clears, the Chinese government may be taken to task for its role in allowing the virus to spread globally.

And since you mention it, the Spanish Flu also likely originated in China --
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

"The deadly "Spanish flu" claimed more lives than World War I, which ended the same year the pandemic struck. Now, new research is placing the flu's emergence in a forgotten episode of World War I: the shipment of Chinese laborers across Canada in sealed train cars."
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#604 » by Jordan-esque » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:03 pm

Xpressure wrote:Anyone posted the Imperial College test on COVID-19?

Scary.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196234/covid19-imperial-researchers-model-likely-impact/

If not taken seriously, and if we hadn't acted on it, it could wipe out 2.2 million Americans.


I read the summary version on Twitter:

Read on Twitter
?s=21
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#605 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:12 pm

LKN wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:At this point everyone in public should be required to wear a mask so they don't spread.


We don't even have enough masks for doctors and nurses!!!!! All mask production needs to be sent directly to medical personnel and first responders



Doctors & Nurses need N95's and anti-fog face shields.

Long term, after the peak and before the fall we need an aggressive approach to make the public wear surgical masks to stop the spread, if the country is going to get back on it's feet before there being a vaccine masks in public has to become a thing. That would slow the spread to manageable levels.

Ramp up production of surgical masks so the country has billions of them by fall.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#606 » by nitetrain8603 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:12 pm

Jordan-esque wrote:
Xpressure wrote:Anyone posted the Imperial College test on COVID-19?

Scary.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196234/covid19-imperial-researchers-model-likely-impact/

If not taken seriously, and if we hadn't acted on it, it could wipe out 2.2 million Americans.


I read the summary version on Twitter:

Read on Twitter
?s=21


So if I'm gathering it correctly, the hope is that this is cleared up in summer time? If not, the worry is slowing it down, but it coming back hard in the winter time?

Maybe I don't know enough about it, but why aren't the world's brightest doctors from all over, coming together to figure this out? People are losing jobs, schools are cancelling the year, and I figure that's the brighter side of things.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#607 » by madmaxmedia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:13 pm

Catchall wrote:
gavran wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Technically it is the same thing, but the Spanish Flu pandemic was three generations ago, so people aren't as sensitive about it.


Techically it's not the same thing, and the generational difference does not change that.

The Spanish flu is called Spanish, because the Spanish media was the one that started reporting on it, while other countries' media was preoccupied with something else. Theresfore it has no negative connotation to Spain. The Chinese Virus, while 100% true, does.


I'm not sure everyone would agree with you that calling the virus Chinese Flu has an inherently negative connotation. In any case, the flu spread from Wuhan. This is written into history now. If the U.S. and other countries had banned all travel from China sooner than they did, it would have prevented a number of deaths and lessened an economic disruption that itself is now likely to cause more deaths. At some point when the smoke clears, the Chinese government may be taken to task for its role in allowing the virus to spread globally.


Personally, I think the biggest mistake in this entire crisis was made early on within Wuhan, when government officials were trying to suppress information and reports by doctors at ground level.

I think there should and most definitely will be attention on that later, regardless of what we call it.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#608 » by Courtside » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:13 pm

ItsDanger wrote:
Courtside wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:US mortality rate is currently at 1.5% in total. Still heavily skewed towards old & underlying conditions, WA state care facility. If the top level rate drops to 0.5%, what is the plan then? Full panic still?

Absolutely yes, because if 50% of Americans get infected, that means 825,000 deaths.

WTF do the numbers of dead have to reach insane levels for people to think it's worth taking action!?

Less action = likelihood of higher rate. The mortality rate is not baked into the virus, it is absolutely decided by the response to it, and ability to provide care. It could have been less than 0.5% if immediate shutdown happened like 10 days ago. That is no longer likely or even possible, unless some of these modified Malaria or HIV treatments work at high rates.


Its a major factor because people die of the flu every year and most people do not care. The mortality rate should be a key component of any decision regarding action here.


Again, to be more clear, the mortality rate is not known. It is not a number that finds a balance within the infected people. The death rate will be determined by the human response to mitigate and treat the outbreak.

Wait and do nothing = millions dead = high % and 24-60 month decimation of economy, years to recover

Take half measures starting now = slightly lower but still maybe million dead and 12-36 month economic depression

Take strong measures = hundreds of thousands dead and 12-18 month recession

Absolute shutdown and war level medical response = tens of thousand dead and 6 months recession followed by 12 month recovery

Estimations of course.

Those are the choices. Which one do you want to achieve?
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#609 » by Catchall » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:16 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:
Catchall wrote:
gavran wrote:
Techically it's not the same thing, and the generational difference does not change that.

The Spanish flu is called Spanish, because the Spanish media was the one that started reporting on it, while other countries' media was preoccupied with something else. Theresfore it has no negative connotation to Spain. The Chinese Virus, while 100% true, does.


I'm not sure everyone would agree with you that calling the virus Chinese Flu has an inherently negative connotation. In any case, the flu spread from Wuhan. This is written into history now. If the U.S. and other countries had banned all travel from China sooner than they did, it would have prevented a number of deaths and lessened an economic disruption that itself is now likely to cause more deaths. At some point when the smoke clears, the Chinese government may be taken to task for its role in allowing the virus to spread globally.


Personally, I think the biggest mistake in this entire crisis was made early on within Wuhan, when government officials were trying to suppress information and reports by doctors at ground level.

I think there should and most definitely will be attention on that later, regardless of what we call it.


They literally arrested and 'disappeared' journalists, threatened doctors, and coerced health workers to diagnose Covid cases as flu or pneumonia throughout the month of December and early January. They also basically bribed the WHO, which is a whole other issue.

They also tried to pressure countries not to block flights from China, which carried the virus abroad. So then the virus wasn't just spreading from China, it was also spreading from Europe.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#610 » by SF_Warriors » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:16 pm

JHTruth wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
There is no "high hospitalization rate". That is abject nonsense. Most carriers either show no or only very mild symptoms.


Every hospital in the bay area most likely has a dozen inpatients at a minimum with or suspected of covid19. Hospitalization rate in Italy is 15-20% (19 last I checked). Look at how badly healthcare systems in multiple countries are being overwhelmed and you are telling me it is not a high hospitalization rate? Wake up.


Lol Italy has 60mm people and around 31000 confirmed cases or .00051% of the population. If that "overwhelms" their healthcare system then their system is pathetic. If a real pandemic ever comes they will become the Walking Dead


You don't understand how thousands of people in a span of a few weeks needing a minimum 1.5 - 2 week long hospitalization can overwhelm a healthcare system? Most hospitals are not sitting empty waiting for a pandemic, they are usually running at about 70-80% capacity...
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#611 » by madmaxmedia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:18 pm

MotownMadness wrote:This is what their public wet market animal eating looks like in Wuhan


That video is abhorrent to me too. There are different aspects to this topic regarding sanitation, culture, etc., some of which are likely to be high risk factors and some aren't- we both agree that it needs to be scrutinized. I will bow out of this conversation for now though as I don't think it is helpful to this thread any longer.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#612 » by DingleJerry » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:19 pm

Ayt wrote:Trump knew what he was doing with the Chinese Virus stuff. There is a reason he didn't refer to it that way once on twitter until the 16th, which is the same day he held the press conference and talked about the quarantine and finally somewhat acknowledged how serious this is.

He wanted to create a distraction and he has.


Was running through the last several pages and planning on posting similar. Surprised it took so long before someone said it.

Yes, everyone is exactly falling for this. He isn't doing this out of any clarification of multiple types of corona, or necessarily because he hates Asian people. It's playing the media like a fiddle. He knows this will tick of the left so they can call him racist, which will bring his crazy faction out to scream back how he's right to do it, blah blah. Then both extremists scream at each other and act like 'everyone' on the other side is that way. Meanwhile the normal people in the middle shake their head. But, when it comes down to it it is on him, as he's instigating ita ll on purpose to politically benefit himself. This is what he wants, you guys getting all angry and arguing about this to distract from what's really going on. Aaaand, it keeps his buddies in the media with good ratings while drumming up support in his base.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#613 » by sfernald » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:19 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
What's sad is ours isn't much better. America has 2 beds per 1000 people. Now factor in those already taking the beds who had stroke/cardiac issues? Basically there aren't any open beds. Even now, crackheads/homeless fill our ER's in America and can tax a hospital trying to manage them. So you bet your ass if a couple hundred thousand start flooding ER's we will collapse.


My wife is a nurse. They saw a slight surge a few weeks ago and a sharp decline since. Y'all can stop panicking about our system being "overwhelmed" lol


Your anecdote isn't enough, because there are many cases of the contrary. My wife is Filipina my man. She's a nurse. So are her sisters. Her circle of friends have about 5 nurses, a few NP's and even a couple Dr's. My sister in law is an ER Trauma nurse at Hoag Hospital here in Newport (where Kobe was famously at semi regularly, and his daughters Bianka and Gianna were born). She said they are getting flooded already with a lot of panicked people. Thing is in America, we are still 15-20 days from the start of the peak. We aren't there yet. When it happens, it will happen fast. Even now if you go to an ER in So Cal it's a 4-5 hour wait unless you have cardiac/stroke symptoms.

At this point our opinions mean little. All you need to do is use math and a little logic. There are almost no available beds. There is a huge shortage in Dr's and Nurses.


My mom and dad practically live at Hoag. I don’t feel they could be in better hands...

Check out my immu-weakened mom going to Stater Bro’s... She’s in it to win it! Love her.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#614 » by madmaxmedia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:21 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Every hospital in the bay area most likely has a dozen inpatients at a minimum with or suspected of covid19. Hospitalization rate in Italy is 15-20% (19 last I checked). Look at how badly healthcare systems in multiple countries are being overwhelmed and you are telling me it is not a high hospitalization rate? Wake up.


Lol Italy has 60mm people and around 31000 confirmed cases or .00051% of the population. If that "overwhelms" their healthcare system then their system is pathetic. If a real pandemic ever comes they will become the Walking Dead


You don't understand how thousands of people in a span of a few weeks needing a minimum 2 week long hospitalization can overwhelm a healthcare system? Most hospitals are not sitting empty waiting for a pandemic, they are usually running at about 70-80% capacity...


Right, no country's medical system has capacity (beds, equipment, personnel, medicine, etc.) for a widespread pandemic, it's not economically feasible. It would be like driving around with 10 spare tires in your car (bad analogy but hopefully my point is clear.)
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#615 » by sfernald » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:26 pm

Catchall wrote:
gavran wrote:
SOdisciple wrote:To the people blasting Trump for calling it the "Chinese Virus", I don't ever want to hear you say "Spanish Flu" ever again. Don't be a hypocrite.


Not the same thing.


Technically it is the same thing, but the Spanish Flu pandemic was three generations ago, so people aren't as sensitive about it.


Ironic it is that Spanish flu started in Kansas apparently.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#616 » by Johnny Bball » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:27 pm

HotRocks34 wrote:New York is blowing up

Read on Twitter



That 1000 bed medical ship should help out in the short term. Hopefully the Army Corps Of Engineers (convert existing buildings to hospital-type spaces) and the Department Of Defense (field hospitals) are ready to roll. Exponential growth is in effect, even if some of this positive test "explosion" could be backlog (as explained by Birx in press conference today; see my post on it above) coming loose now.

This is what the medical ship looks like:

Image


Think it's like a converted destroyer. USA has 2 of them.


Aaaand... this is because they've they started finally testing. The cases have been there, just not tested for. So when the white house start blaming the city and the state... don't buy into it please.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#617 » by Johnny Bball » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:31 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Bandit King wrote:I'm still waiting for the goverment to pass that bill for that $1000 check we suppose to get in the mail.

They just garnished my whole income tax of 10 grand over a student loan. Like WTF man, i dont need that right now or anything.

Im so aggravated and was needing that


I'm sure you can find away to blame an entire race for that somehow. No need to be hard on yourself here.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#618 » by MotownMadness » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:33 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
Bandit King wrote:I'm still waiting for the goverment to pass that bill for that $1000 check we suppose to get in the mail.

They just garnished my whole income tax of 10 grand over a student loan. Like WTF man, i dont need that right now or anything.

Im so aggravated and was needing that


I'm sure you can find away to blame an entire race for that somehow. No need to be hard on yourself here.

WTF, he was talking about recieving money from the gov and i was talking about how they just did the opposite for me.

Take your race drama to a relative convo
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#619 » by JHTruth » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:38 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
JHTruth wrote:
Lol Italy has 60mm people and around 31000 confirmed cases or .00051% of the population. If that "overwhelms" their healthcare system then their system is pathetic. If a real pandemic ever comes they will become the Walking Dead


You don't understand how thousands of people in a span of a few weeks needing a minimum 2 week long hospitalization can overwhelm a healthcare system? Most hospitals are not sitting empty waiting for a pandemic, they are usually running at about 70-80% capacity...


Right, no country's medical system has capacity (beds, equipment, personnel, medicine, etc.) for a widespread pandemic, it's not economically feasible. It would be like driving around with 10 spare tires in your car (bad analogy but hopefully my point is clear.)


Well good thing its a bunch of nonsense and not a real pandemic then.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1) 

Post#620 » by sfernald » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:40 pm

Catchall wrote:
gavran wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Technically it is the same thing, but the Spanish Flu pandemic was three generations ago, so people aren't as sensitive about it.


Techically it's not the same thing, and the generational difference does not change that.

The Spanish flu is called Spanish, because the Spanish media was the one that started reporting on it, while other countries' media was preoccupied with something else. Theresfore it has no negative connotation to Spain. The Chinese Virus, while 100% true, does.


I'm not sure everyone would agree with you that calling the virus Chinese Flu has an inherently negative connotation. In any case, the flu spread from Wuhan. This is written into history now. If the U.S. and other countries had banned all travel from China sooner than they did, it would have prevented a number of deaths and lessened an economic disruption that itself is now likely to cause more deaths. At some point when the smoke clears, the Chinese government may be taken to task for its role in allowing the virus to spread globally.

And since you mention it, the Spanish Flu also likely originated in China --
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

"The deadly "Spanish flu" claimed more lives than World War I, which ended the same year the pandemic struck. Now, new research is placing the flu's emergence in a forgotten episode of World War I: the shipment of Chinese laborers across Canada in sealed train cars."


It’s more likely and more referenced in history books that it originated from Kansas actually.

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