NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[Ambrose]

Non-compliance is the only way out of this for the unvaxxed. Stand strong, make them physically assault you at your work and catch it all on camera. American's still have fundamental rights in the constitution, including freedom of movement, and right to privacy. If you are going to take away millions of dollars from me, you better believe I am going down swinging.

The government has had the power to mandate vaccines since the Supreme Court decision Jacobsen v Massachusetts in 1905.
And the mandate the Jacobson decision rests on was much more Draconian than what we are seeing today -- it was a local health mandate in Cambridge that ALL members of the public had to get vaccinated. Period.
Jacobson was a preacher with a history of adverse reactions to vaccines.
Still lost.
Check out Wickard v Filburn. You literally cant even grow your own food on your own property for your own use if the government doesn't want you to. By not having to buy the food at a store, you are impacting interstate commerce and subject to federal gov regulation.
Buck v Bell, the gov can have people sterilized if they deem it's for the common good.
Etc.
I think maybe a lot of people are just finding out they aren't really as free as they thought they were. All that land of the free stuff has always been propaganda. It's just that usually the encroachments on civil liberties only affect minorities and the poor, whereas the masks and vax requirements are affecting everyone.

This is not entirely correct. The 1905 case applied to states. Not the Federal government.

[FNQ]

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210614/Study-suggests-COVID-19-in-children-is-milder-than-the-flu.aspx

Also, your image from before? Its not listed there. Whered you get it?

https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/how-should-i-think-about-school-and

This is what you linked to us, is it not? The econ major?

I dont blame her though. The study I linked finished in September, her blog post finished in August. She uses metered data/logic and acknowledges this. Her last line opines about how they need better facts to make decisions.

I've presented them to you, at a much larger scale, with clear results.

So I'll ask again - is COVID more dangerous than the flu for children?

[haosmoove]

They want to trick Kyriie into voluntarily not showing up to games so they don't have to pay him.

Who are they? The Nets? This is false premise.

To deny someone the ability to monetize their labor, without offering any alternatives to the vaccine seems like a gross encroachment on fundamental rights.

Unvaxxed players in NY and GS CHOSE to not provide labor. You are twisting it to sound like they are not getting paid after providing labor.

Sprewell already lost the cast against the Warriors suspension. The judge ruled that playing in the NBA is not the only means to make a living.

Players can avoid the jab all they want, and I respect that. As long as they are fine with facing the consequences. But they have no rights to demand the league and the city to pay them for services they choose not to provide.

[dhsilv2]

Nope.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/148/3/e2020042929

Its super wordy but let me know where you have questions or concerns with the compiled data

Ok.. whats your question? I like that RSV was included, certainly not to increase numbers, but go on

Also a source would be nice. I showed you mine.. based on 250k COVID cases in people under the age of 18 and over 2 million influenza cases.

Little google image search and this seems to be the source.

https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/how-should-i-think-about-school-and

[Hsker4Life]

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210614/Study-suggests-COVID-19-in-children-is-milder-than-the-flu.aspx

Also, your image from before? Its not listed there. Whered you get it?

https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/how-should-i-think-about-school-and

This is what you linked to us, is it not? The econ major?

I dont blame her though. The study I linked finished in September, her blog post finished in August. She uses metered data/logic and acknowledges this. Her last line opines about how they need better facts to make decisions.

I've presented them to you, at a much larger scale, with clear results.

So I'll ask again - is COVID more dangerous than the flu for children?

I already showed you were the chart was pulled from. She cites her sources for the information that was gathered and made into a chart. Here it is again: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1bg53MVk44zktdNZWsgppJ98F6qoKFej3HJxL2CiEbgw/mobilebasic

No, COVID is not more dangerous than the flu for kids. And no, the way COVID effects kids is not good reason to mandate kids (as young as 3) wear masks inside of schools.

[FNQ]

I think we can agree that major complications in children from COVID are rare. Coupling that with masks in schools not significantly slowing the spread of COVID amongst students, forcing children (as young as 3 years old) to wear masks is senseless.

Are major complications more rare in children than in adults? Yes. Lets keep in mind that "rare" is how we define major complications in adults too. And we still have many affected.

And then generalities - not significantly slowing the spread... what is this based on? Is there data to support that as well? I don't agree to generalities like that unless there's data behind them. Because what we do know is that masks do help slow the spread of COVID. While children seem to be less likely to contract serious disease from COVID, which is not to be diminished, masks help slow the spread. And children can carry and spread COVID with close to the same effectiveness as an adult, and perhaps more so due to them just being children in the first place. So if we want to take this seriously for once, then yes, kids should be aware of masks, that they should wear them. Because we all do stuff for our kids that they don't like but is good for them. Thats how it works

[FNQ]

Also, your image from before? Its not listed there. Whered you get it?

https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/how-should-i-think-about-school-and

This is what you linked to us, is it not? The econ major?

I dont blame her though. The study I linked finished in September, her blog post finished in August. She uses metered data/logic and acknowledges this. Her last line opines about how they need better facts to make decisions.

I've presented them to you, at a much larger scale, with clear results.

So I'll ask again - is COVID more dangerous than the flu for children?

I already showed you were the chart was pulled from. She cites her sources for the information that was gathered and made into a chart. Here it is again: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1bg53MVk44zktdNZWsgppJ98F6qoKFej3HJxL2CiEbgw/mobilebasic

No, COVID is not more dangerous than the flu for kids. And no, the way COVID effects kids is not good reason to mandate kids (as young as 3) wear masks inside of schools.

Look dude, dont lie to me. I can see where you sourced the image. It was from a substack. Thats how I found it. Its not a big deal

https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecf7bce4-4658-424c-80b0-b9718271b798_627x567.png

Literally the image you provided.

And I just showed you data that proved it was, comprehensive data, and you still just deny it. So clearly you arent interested in the truth, you just want your initial opinion to be right. Sorry. Its not. So we're done, best of luck trying this on someone else

To be clear:

You wanted to prove that the flu was worse than COVID for children. Stumble upon the economists blog, who found a very small study and played Devil's Advocate. The post and data was from August 2021

I used a comprehensive study, dated September 2021, with 11000x (not an exaggeration) more subjects for study, and it showed that no, the flu is not more dangerous than COVID, and by a fair margin.

You re-iterate that the flu is more dangerous than COVID for children.

Have I got that all right?

[Pointgod]

If you pay me, I will stay home. If you want to doc my salary 41 times, I am taking a stand and standing up for my rights.

First of all, if you are breaking the law while employed, it only gives your employer the right to revoke your contract and your pay.

You clearly have misunderstanding on freedom, it's caveat on not infringing the freedom of others. For example, I can't show up and stay in your house uninvited because I have "freedom of movement". Same with unvaxxed players don't have the freedom to spread virus to everyone else in the building.

Except Kyrie wouldn't be "breaking the law while employed". He is not even breaking the law. Law requires legislation between the house and the senate. A mandate is a power granted to the governor.

When you enter someone's private property uninvited, that is a crime, and you do not have a right to be there. I think it is you that has the misunderstanding here.

They want to trick Kyriie into voluntarily not showing up to games so they don't have to pay him. I have a hard time believing these mandates will stand up to the scrutiny of the supreme court. To deny someone the ability to monetize their labor, without offering any alternatives to the vaccine seems like a gross encroachment on fundamental rights. Kyrie could easily prove he's not infected through a test.

So you saying that cities and states don’t have the power to pass their own laws and bylaws? And the Supreme Court set the precedent on vaccine mandates. This is not hard stuff to find.

Kyrie is not being denied the ability to monetize his labor. Just like NBA players have to agree to random drug tests as part of the conditions of their employment, so does a vaccine requirement.

[Curmudgeon]

It's difficult to educate a cinder block, it really is.

[Hsker4Life]

https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/how-should-i-think-about-school-and

This is what you linked to us, is it not? The econ major?

I dont blame her though. The study I linked finished in September, her blog post finished in August. She uses metered data/logic and acknowledges this. Her last line opines about how they need better facts to make decisions.

I've presented them to you, at a much larger scale, with clear results.

So I'll ask again - is COVID more dangerous than the flu for children?

I already showed you were the chart was pulled from. She cites her sources for the information that was gathered and made into a chart. Here it is again: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1bg53MVk44zktdNZWsgppJ98F6qoKFej3HJxL2CiEbgw/mobilebasic

No, COVID is not more dangerous than the flu for kids. And no, the way COVID effects kids is not good reason to mandate kids (as young as 3) wear masks inside of schools.

Look dude, dont lie to me. I can see where you sourced the image. It was from a substack. Thats how I found it. Its not a big deal

https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecf7bce4-4658-424c-80b0-b9718271b798_627x567.png

Literally the image you provided.

And I just showed you data that proved it was, comprehensive data, and you still just deny it. So clearly you arent interested in the truth, you just want your initial opinion to be right. Sorry. Its not. So we're done, best of luck trying this on someone else

You didn’t open the link I sent, did you? It is from the same creator of that chart sourcing where she pulled the information from to create the chart. A lie?

You asked where the chart is from, and I sent you the link to the creator of the chart explaining the sources she used to make the chart. That’s all it took for you to get your panties twisted, take your ball and run home? LOL

[CIN-C-STAR]

Non-compliance is the only way out of this for the unvaxxed. Stand strong, make them physically assault you at your work and catch it all on camera. American's still have fundamental rights in the constitution, including freedom of movement, and right to privacy. If you are going to take away millions of dollars from me, you better believe I am going down swinging.

The government has had the power to mandate vaccines since the Supreme Court decision Jacobsen v Massachusetts in 1905.
And the mandate the Jacobson decision rests on was much more Draconian than what we are seeing today -- it was a local health mandate in Cambridge that ALL members of the public had to get vaccinated. Period.
Jacobson was a preacher with a history of adverse reactions to vaccines.
Still lost.
Check out Wickard v Filburn. You literally cant even grow your own food on your own property for your own use if the government doesn't want you to. By not having to buy the food at a store, you are impacting interstate commerce and subject to federal gov regulation.
Buck v Bell, the gov can have people sterilized if they deem it's for the common good.
Etc.
I think maybe a lot of people are just finding out they aren't really as free as they thought they were. All that land of the free stuff has always been propaganda. It's just that usually the encroachments on civil liberties only affect minorities and the poor, whereas the masks and vax requirements are affecting everyone.

This is not entirely correct. The 1905 case applied to states. Not the Federal government.

The regulations ("mandates") we are discussing ARE local mandates, in NYC and San Fran.
Just like the vaccine mandate in Jacobson.

[FNQ]

You didn’t open the link I sent, did you? It is from the same creator of that chart sourcing where she pulled the information from to create the chart. A lie?

You asked where the chart is from, and I sent you the link to the creator of the chart explaining the sources she used to make the chart. That’s all it took for you to get your panties twisted, take your ball and run home? LOL

Your research was an economists blog, that referenced a small study that had 200 people in it.
Mine was an actual scientific hypothesis that had 2,200,000 people in it.

And you denied the research I provided, the 2.2 million one, for because you really want to believe the one with 200 people.

Just know that people see that. And that the next time you put evidence on the table to support whatever argument you make, people should very much check it out, because you will clearly ignore facts for whatever preferred outcome you want to be real

[Hsker4Life]

I think we can agree that major complications in children from COVID are rare. Coupling that with masks in schools not significantly slowing the spread of COVID amongst students, forcing children (as young as 3 years old) to wear masks is senseless.

Are major complications more rare in children than in adults? Yes. Lets keep in mind that "rare" is how we define major complications in adults too. And we still have many affected.

And then generalities - not significantly slowing the spread... what is this based on? Is there data to support that as well? I don't agree to generalities like that unless there's data behind them. Because what we do know is that masks do help slow the spread of COVID. While children seem to be less likely to contract serious disease from COVID, which is not to be diminished, masks help slow the spread. And children can carry and spread COVID with close to the same effectiveness as an adult, and perhaps more so due to them just being children in the first place. So if we want to take this seriously for once, then yes, kids should be aware of masks, that they should wear them. Because we all do stuff for our kids that they don't like but is good for them. Thats how it works

Where has it been shown that mask mandates slow the spread of COVID amongst students in a school setting?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.19.21257467v1.full

[Hsker4Life]

You didn’t open the link I sent, did you? It is from the same creator of that chart sourcing where she pulled the information from to create the chart. A lie?

You asked where the chart is from, and I sent you the link to the creator of the chart explaining the sources she used to make the chart. That’s all it took for you to get your panties twisted, take your ball and run home? LOL

Your research was an economists blog, that referenced a small study that had 200 people in it.
Mine was an actual scientific hypothesis that had 2,200,000 people in it.

And you denied the research I provided, the 2.2 million one, for because you really want to believe the one with 200 people.

Just know that people see that.

It’s hard to take you seriously when you accused me of lying for giving you exactly what you asked me to provide. Want to walk that back?

[Hsker4Life]

Abstract

This paper reports on the correlation of mitigation practices with staff and student COVID-19 case rates in Florida, New York, and Massachusetts during the 2020-2021 school year. We analyze data collected by the COVID-19 School Response Dashboard and focus on student density, ventilation upgrades, and masking. We find higher student COVID-19 rates in schools and districts with lower in-person density but no correlations in staff rates. Ventilation upgrades are correlated with lower rates in Florida but not in New York. We do not find any correlations with mask mandates. All rates are lower in the spring, after teacher vaccination is underway.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.19.21257467v1.full

***Emphasis added by me

[FNQ]

I think we can agree that major complications in children from COVID are rare. Coupling that with masks in schools not significantly slowing the spread of COVID amongst students, forcing children (as young as 3 years old) to wear masks is senseless.

Are major complications more rare in children than in adults? Yes. Lets keep in mind that "rare" is how we define major complications in adults too. And we still have many affected.

And then generalities - not significantly slowing the spread... what is this based on? Is there data to support that as well? I don't agree to generalities like that unless there's data behind them. Because what we do know is that masks do help slow the spread of COVID. While children seem to be less likely to contract serious disease from COVID, which is not to be diminished, masks help slow the spread. And children can carry and spread COVID with close to the same effectiveness as an adult, and perhaps more so due to them just being children in the first place. So if we want to take this seriously for once, then yes, kids should be aware of masks, that they should wear them. Because we all do stuff for our kids that they don't like but is good for them. Thats how it works

Where has it been shown that mask mandates slow the spread of COVID amongst students in a school setting?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.19.21257467v1.full

Ok, and here are some other studies that have shown significant decline due to school mask mandates.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e3.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7012e3.htm

(There are plenty others but these 2 were catalogued so close together)

Note that these studies had the same variables as the one you presented: spacing where available, higher ventilation, etc etc

And since we do know that masking does help prevent the spread of COVID in general, the burden of proof would be to show that masks are actually ineffective. While there have been a couple outlier cases where they determined there was no effective change, EVERY ONE of those studies relayed in their notes that the "control" group often times had masks and still had the same amounts of ventilation and spacing.

[FNQ]

You didn’t open the link I sent, did you? It is from the same creator of that chart sourcing where she pulled the information from to create the chart. A lie?

You asked where the chart is from, and I sent you the link to the creator of the chart explaining the sources she used to make the chart. That’s all it took for you to get your panties twisted, take your ball and run home? LOL

Your research was an economists blog, that referenced a small study that had 200 people in it.
Mine was an actual scientific hypothesis that had 2,200,000 people in it.

And you denied the research I provided, the 2.2 million one, for because you really want to believe the one with 200 people.

Just know that people see that.

It’s hard to take you seriously when you accused me of lying for giving you exactly what you asked me to provide. Want to walk that back?

I asked you where you got it from. Quit deflecting, no one cares

[Hsker4Life]

Are major complications more rare in children than in adults? Yes. Lets keep in mind that "rare" is how we define major complications in adults too. And we still have many affected.

And then generalities - not significantly slowing the spread... what is this based on? Is there data to support that as well? I don't agree to generalities like that unless there's data behind them. Because what we do know is that masks do help slow the spread of COVID. While children seem to be less likely to contract serious disease from COVID, which is not to be diminished, masks help slow the spread. And children can carry and spread COVID with close to the same effectiveness as an adult, and perhaps more so due to them just being children in the first place. So if we want to take this seriously for once, then yes, kids should be aware of masks, that they should wear them. Because we all do stuff for our kids that they don't like but is good for them. Thats how it works

Where has it been shown that mask mandates slow the spread of COVID amongst students in a school setting?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.19.21257467v1.full

Ok, and here are some other studies that have shown significant decline due to school mask mandates.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e3.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7012e3.htm

(There are plenty others but these 2 were catalogued so close together)

Note that these studies had the same variables as the one you presented: spacing where available, higher ventilation, etc etc

And since we do know that masking does help prevent the spread of COVID in general, the burden of proof would be to show that masks are actually ineffective. While there have been a couple outlier cases where they determined there was no effective change, EVERY ONE of those studies relayed in their notes that the "control" group often times had masks and still had the same amounts of ventilation and spacing.

“ Among 17 rural Wisconsin schools, reported student mask-wearing was high, and the COVID-19 incidence among students and staff members was lower than in the county overall (3,453 versus 5,466 per 100,000). Among 191 cases identified in students and staff members, only seven (3.7%) cases, all among students, were linked to in-school spread.”

That’s quite weak.

[dhsilv2]

I already showed you were the chart was pulled from. She cites her sources for the information that was gathered and made into a chart. Here it is again: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1bg53MVk44zktdNZWsgppJ98F6qoKFej3HJxL2CiEbgw/mobilebasic

No, COVID is not more dangerous than the flu for kids. And no, the way COVID effects kids is not good reason to mandate kids (as young as 3) wear masks inside of schools.

Look dude, dont lie to me. I can see where you sourced the image. It was from a substack. Thats how I found it. Its not a big deal

https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fecf7bce4-4658-424c-80b0-b9718271b798_627x567.png

Literally the image you provided.

And I just showed you data that proved it was, comprehensive data, and you still just deny it. So clearly you arent interested in the truth, you just want your initial opinion to be right. Sorry. Its not. So we're done, best of luck trying this on someone else

You didn’t open the link I sent, did you? It is from the same creator of that chart sourcing where she pulled the information from to create the chart. A lie?

You asked where the chart is from, and I sent you the link to the creator of the chart explaining the sources she used to make the chart. That’s all it took for you to get your panties twisted, take your ball and run home? LOL

your chart literally says covid is much more likely to lead to hospitalization and then says "I don't have enough data on deaths to do more than throw a dart at a dart board."

[MoneyTalks41890]

Non-compliance is the only way out of this for the unvaxxed. Stand strong, make them physically assault you at your work and catch it all on camera. American's still have fundamental rights in the constitution, including freedom of movement, and right to privacy. If you are going to take away millions of dollars from me, you better believe I am going down swinging.

The government has had the power to mandate vaccines since the Supreme Court decision Jacobsen v Massachusetts in 1905.
And the mandate the Jacobson decision rests on was much more Draconian than what we are seeing today -- it was a local health mandate in Cambridge that ALL members of the public had to get vaccinated. Period.
Jacobson was a preacher with a history of adverse reactions to vaccines.
Still lost.
Check out Wickard v Filburn. You literally cant even grow your own food on your own property for your own use if the government doesn't want you to. By not having to buy the food at a store, you are impacting interstate commerce and subject to federal gov regulation.
Buck v Bell, the gov can have people sterilized if they deem it's for the common good.
Etc.
I think maybe a lot of people are just finding out they aren't really as free as they thought they were. All that land of the free stuff has always been propaganda. It's just that usually the encroachments on civil liberties only affect minorities and the poor, whereas the masks and vax requirements are affecting everyone.

This is not entirely correct. The 1905 case applied to states. Not the Federal government.

The reasoning is portable and you should understand the long history of constitutional draconian public health measures. The framers were very afraid of plague. There are areas where the law has developed to favor individual over collective rights, public health is not one of them.

I think some of these NBA players are just not getting good information, but some people just want to act oppressed so badly. It's crazy that folks dig through random spam posts on the internet to try to justify their existing position, rather than adapting to what the science actually tells us, which is to get vaccinated. If you have issues with the MRna, take the live culture vaccine. If you won't do either, expect your movement to be lawfully restricted and other folks you share a country with to view you with disdain.