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76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
So if Ben gets traded and immediately starts playing again will the league levy huge fines against him and Rich Paul? If you're going to claim mental illness and needing to be away that can't end just because you were traded and now everything is hunky dory. League needs to step in and either decide Ben is having legitimate issues and needs help or he's faking it to try and get paid while not playing.
The two options:
1. Legit mental illness. In that case a trade isn't going to change things and he should be out for an undetermined amount of time to get help. If he plays immediately after the trade then he should be fined heavily.
2. Not legit. He's fined heavily and Rich Paul gets fined even more heavily for violating rules and basically committing fraud.
The two options:
1. Legit mental illness. In that case a trade isn't going to change things and he should be out for an undetermined amount of time to get help. If he plays immediately after the trade then he should be fined heavily.
2. Not legit. He's fined heavily and Rich Paul gets fined even more heavily for violating rules and basically committing fraud.
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
Synciere wrote:seren wrote:Best thing for all sides is they come to some sort of financial agreement and let him go.
This.
Holding on for what they deem is fair Morey value on a trade is only going to make this situation worse.
Trying to withhold his pay is only going to make the situation worse.
Trying to control these players only makes the situation worse!
This isn't worth it for the Sixers. It hasn't been worth it since his trade request. They would be better served taking the John Wall 'Just sit home until something is worked out' approach. But this is about power now.
I still think this can get uglier.
It's not about "power". It's about accountability to a contract, which Simmons voluntarily consented to. If Simmons doesn't want to play ball, he will not get paid. Simple as that.
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
First Step wrote:Synciere wrote:seren wrote:Best thing for all sides is they come to some sort of financial agreement and let him go.
This.
Holding on for what they deem is fair Morey value on a trade is only going to make this situation worse.
Trying to withhold his pay is only going to make the situation worse.
Trying to control these players only makes the situation worse!
This isn't worth it for the Sixers. It hasn't been worth it since his trade request. They would be better served taking the John Wall 'Just sit home until something is worked out' approach. But this is about power now.
I still think this can get uglier.
It's not about "power". It's about accountability to a contract, which Simmons voluntarily consented to. If Simmons doesn't want to play ball, he will not get paid. Simple as that.
Well, he is being paid. He's been fined a bunch, but the Sixers have had 13 games and he's only been fined for what, 2 of them? That plus the fines and missed practices etc is probably a mil in fines but he gets paid quarterly. He already has the first quarter payment so maybe 10 million or so... not sure it's as simple as you're making it.
And listen, these situations, especially big money contract situations, are always about power. You say potato; I say potato. Power vs. accountability is just phrasing for public perception at this point, but at the heart of this issue are two opposing forces trying to control a situation. That's a power struggle.
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
celtics543 wrote:So if Ben gets traded and immediately starts playing again will the league levy huge fines against him and Rich Paul? If you're going to claim mental illness and needing to be away that can't end just because you were traded and now everything is hunky dory. League needs to step in and either decide Ben is having legitimate issues and needs help or he's faking it to try and get paid while not playing.
The two options:
1. Legit mental illness. In that case a trade isn't going to change things and he should be out for an undetermined amount of time to get help. If he plays immediately after the trade then he should be fined heavily.
2. Not legit. He's fined heavily and Rich Paul gets fined even more heavily for violating rules and basically committing fraud.
I'm about to agree, but this is not that black and white. It can very well turn out that his mental illness is caused by the environment. It can very well be that this environment is not objectively toxic, but in his specific case it is making his situation worse. In this case getting him traded might do the job: even if he is not fully functioning, he might be ok enough to play.
Anyways it's all about assumptions: A good psychologist can tell if he is faking or not and that's enough. He should visit one, that is appointed by NBAPA for example, and then let the 76ers fight w/ the NBAPA. (If that person finds that Simmons is faking, then they should take their own steps. I believe since they did nothing, they think the issue is real)
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
celtics543 wrote:So if Ben gets traded and immediately starts playing again will the league levy huge fines against him and Rich Paul? If you're going to claim mental illness and needing to be away that can't end just because you were traded and now everything is hunky dory. League needs to step in and either decide Ben is having legitimate issues and needs help or he's faking it to try and get paid while not playing.
The two options:
1. Legit mental illness. In that case a trade isn't going to change things and he should be out for an undetermined amount of time to get help. If he plays immediately after the trade then he should be fined heavily.
2. Not legit. He's fined heavily and Rich Paul gets fined even more heavily for violating rules and basically committing fraud.
Thats kinda binary. He's either mentally ill and has to be away from the game or he's not mentally ill and faking? There's like a 1000 things in between, lol
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
Pointgod wrote:BullyKing wrote:seren wrote:Best thing for all sides is they come to some sort of financial agreement and let him go.
Why would it be the "best thing" for the Sixers to lose an asset for nothing in return?
Right now since Ben is not playing the Sixers are getting nothing from an asset. Morey is waiting for some unicorn deal that’s going to get him a MVP player, multiple first round picks, ownership stake in the team Simmons is traded to and the chance to be President for a day. At least if they just get out of his contract the Sixers save money and Morey can soothe his ego with the fact that he didn’t “give in”. The problem is Morey wants it one way but it’s the other way.
No matter how much hyperbole you couch it in, it doesn't obscure what a stupid position you're advocating. Morey might not be offered the assets he wants now but the idea that he should basically just release Simmons as a result is so beyond ridiculous.
If you are selling your house and the offers you received are under what you think it is worth, is your solution to just abandon it? Try and use a modicum of common sense here.
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
First Step wrote:Synciere wrote:seren wrote:Best thing for all sides is they come to some sort of financial agreement and let him go.
This.
Holding on for what they deem is fair Morey value on a trade is only going to make this situation worse.
Trying to withhold his pay is only going to make the situation worse.
Trying to control these players only makes the situation worse!
This isn't worth it for the Sixers. It hasn't been worth it since his trade request. They would be better served taking the John Wall 'Just sit home until something is worked out' approach. But this is about power now.
I still think this can get uglier.
It's not about "power". It's about accountability to a contract, which Simmons voluntarily consented to. If Simmons doesn't want to play ball, he will not get paid. Simple as that.
Thank you someone finally understands the real world.
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
mademan wrote:celtics543 wrote:So if Ben gets traded and immediately starts playing again will the league levy huge fines against him and Rich Paul? If you're going to claim mental illness and needing to be away that can't end just because you were traded and now everything is hunky dory. League needs to step in and either decide Ben is having legitimate issues and needs help or he's faking it to try and get paid while not playing.
The two options:
1. Legit mental illness. In that case a trade isn't going to change things and he should be out for an undetermined amount of time to get help. If he plays immediately after the trade then he should be fined heavily.
2. Not legit. He's fined heavily and Rich Paul gets fined even more heavily for violating rules and basically committing fraud.
Thats kinda binary. He's either mentally ill and has to be away from the game or he's not mentally ill and faking? There's like a 1000 things in between, lol
Sure but that opens the door for any player to claim mental illness based on situation and continue getting paid to not play if they don't get traded.
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
One thing I think Klutch/Ben Simmons are not realizing is that after all of this, if and when Ben gets traded. He will have to perform on a high level if he ever wants to smell anything close to a max contract again. There is an old saying don't bite of your nose to spite your face. The long term effects of the way Klutch/Ben have gone about asking for a trade is a prime case of biting of your nose to spike your face. He so wants out of philly that he is willing to play every and any card. But long term it is going to cost him millions of dollars in contracts and probably endorsements. He is not Kyrie who can do the scorched earth thing and still come back and teams want him at top dollar....because he is a proven commodity. He is Ben Simmons who was afraid to dunk over Trae young.
Lebron was at one time the most hated player in basketball (except for Miami fans) but he wanted to win and he did win. And he managed to turn all the hate into love even from the fans that once burned his jersey. Can anyone envision Ben having anywhere that type of effect or even having that mindset to significantly improve his game?.
It has been a major miscalculation from Klutch/Ben. I guess they thought that Morey and the 76ers were going to roll over and play dead and just give in to their demands. This has been more of a fight that they were prepared for. As an agency you should want the max amount of money for your client. Klutch has cost Ben money and will continue to do so.
Klutch has written the manual on how not to ask for a trade. And in the process they have hurt their client, probably their reputation given the owners more to thing about when dealing with players long term contracts.
Lebron was at one time the most hated player in basketball (except for Miami fans) but he wanted to win and he did win. And he managed to turn all the hate into love even from the fans that once burned his jersey. Can anyone envision Ben having anywhere that type of effect or even having that mindset to significantly improve his game?.
It has been a major miscalculation from Klutch/Ben. I guess they thought that Morey and the 76ers were going to roll over and play dead and just give in to their demands. This has been more of a fight that they were prepared for. As an agency you should want the max amount of money for your client. Klutch has cost Ben money and will continue to do so.
Klutch has written the manual on how not to ask for a trade. And in the process they have hurt their client, probably their reputation given the owners more to thing about when dealing with players long term contracts.
You want it to be one way....but it's the other way.
Marlo
Marlo
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
celtics543 wrote:So if Ben gets traded and immediately starts playing again will the league levy huge fines against him and Rich Paul? If you're going to claim mental illness and needing to be away that can't end just because you were traded and now everything is hunky dory. League needs to step in and either decide Ben is having legitimate issues and needs help or he's faking it to try and get paid while not playing.
The two options:
1. Legit mental illness. In that case a trade isn't going to change things and he should be out for an undetermined amount of time to get help. If he plays immediately after the trade then he should be fined heavily.
2. Not legit. He's fined heavily and Rich Paul gets fined even more heavily for violating rules and basically committing fraud.
You do realize there are millions of people in the United States going to work while dealing with mental illness, right? Including some in the NBA both openly(see Love and DeRozan for instance) and some privately. Sometimes they do need time off from work like with other illnesses, but coming back to work doesn't mean they are cured or were faking. And many of us having pointed this out multiple times, but a common suggestion by mental health professionals is to change your environment when possible if its unhealthy for you. It would be natural for a trade to be helpful to his mental health. Not automatically a sign of faking.
Ya'll's hate for Ben Simmons and ignorance on mental illness leads to just some wild takes.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
Eyeamok wrote:One thing I think Klutch/Ben Simmons are not realizing is that after all of this, if and when Ben gets traded. He will have to perform on a high level if he ever wants to smell anything close to a max contract again. .
This is basically everyone except for guys with "potential" coming off rookie deals where their team is paying for future performance despite not having seen it yet. But nobody comes off a veteran deal plays just okay and gets a max deal unless a team is just stupid.
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
BullyKing wrote:Pointgod wrote:BullyKing wrote:
Why would it be the "best thing" for the Sixers to lose an asset for nothing in return?
Right now since Ben is not playing the Sixers are getting nothing from an asset. Morey is waiting for some unicorn deal that’s going to get him a MVP player, multiple first round picks, ownership stake in the team Simmons is traded to and the chance to be President for a day. At least if they just get out of his contract the Sixers save money and Morey can soothe his ego with the fact that he didn’t “give in”. The problem is Morey wants it one way but it’s the other way.
No matter how much hyperbole you couch it in, it doesn't obscure what a stupid position you're advocating. Morey might not be offered the assets he wants now but the idea that he should basically just release Simmons as a result is so beyond ridiculous.
If you are selling your house and the offers you received are under what you think it is worth, is your solution to just abandon it? Try and use a modicum of common sense here.
This position is no less stupid than Morey’s idiotic comment of “This can last 4 years”. So what’s Morey going to do just hold onto Simmons for the length of his contract and fine him? That fine money doesn’t go back to the 76ers. They’re literally paying for an asset that’s not contributing to their team.
What Morey is doing is keeping a house that he doesn’t even live in, instead of renting it out or selling it for below market value. The way contracts work is that the 76ers have to continue to pay Simmons. Fining him only ensures mutually assured pain. If they truly believe that Simmons isn’t living up to the terms of his contract they can continue to pay him and fine him or void his contract and not pay him. Or just trade him like they should have done months ago.
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
celtics543 wrote:So if Ben gets traded and immediately starts playing again will the league levy huge fines against him and Rich Paul? If you're going to claim mental illness and needing to be away that can't end just because you were traded and now everything is hunky dory. League needs to step in and either decide Ben is having legitimate issues and needs help or he's faking it to try and get paid while not playing.
The two options:
1. Legit mental illness. In that case a trade isn't going to change things and he should be out for an undetermined amount of time to get help. If he plays immediately after the trade then he should be fined heavily.
2. Not legit. He's fined heavily and Rich Paul gets fined even more heavily for violating rules and basically committing fraud.
I agree it's BS, but how would you put a timeline on when he'll recover? They could claim the timing is coincidence, which would be soooo see through, but how do you prove otherwise?
Jokic 5x MVP train
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
Doug_12 wrote:celtics543 wrote:So if Ben gets traded and immediately starts playing again will the league levy huge fines against him and Rich Paul? If you're going to claim mental illness and needing to be away that can't end just because you were traded and now everything is hunky dory. League needs to step in and either decide Ben is having legitimate issues and needs help or he's faking it to try and get paid while not playing.
The two options:
1. Legit mental illness. In that case a trade isn't going to change things and he should be out for an undetermined amount of time to get help. If he plays immediately after the trade then he should be fined heavily.
2. Not legit. He's fined heavily and Rich Paul gets fined even more heavily for violating rules and basically committing fraud.
I'm about to agree, but this is not that black and white. It can very well turn out that his mental illness is caused by the environment. It can very well be that this environment is not objectively toxic, but in his specific case it is making his situation worse. In this case getting him traded might do the job: even if he is not fully functioning, he might be ok enough to play.
so how does one prove that this is a toxic environment for one person when there are countless members of the same job organization that hasn't filed one grievance against said organization?
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
in my view in such cases your employer shouldn't pay you, but you should be covered by an either private or public insurance system.Doug_12 wrote:BullyKing wrote:The World According to Tomjas:
1. An employee can refuse to work
2. Months later, the employee can claim they can't work because of a mental illness.
3. The employee can refuse to provide any information about this or when they might be able to return to work.
4. The employer must still pay the employee all of his wages with no questions asked.
With that in mind, I have only one question.
TOMJAS, WILL YOU PLEASE HIRE ME????
I also agree w/ this. The employer has no business of knowing what my problem is. They only need to know that according to a qualified, government appointed, 3rd party doctor that I can work or not.
this way you avoid employers profiling candidates based on health risk or, even worse, pregnancy risk
but then you must be ready to provide serious evidence to get your money, to the insurance
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
Doesn't insurance kick in after a year of injury? I wonder what happens with mental health. Like if the situation is as serious as Simmons' side claims and if he sits for a year, won't Philly be able to have insurance pay his salary?
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
Eyeamok wrote:He is not Kyrie who can do the scorched earth thing and still come back and teams want him at top dollar....because he is a proven commodity.
This might be true for Kyrie as well, the flat earth part was normally weird, but now he went wat to far with his lunacy.
The biggest asset Kyrie brought to the Nets has been being friend with Durant, without that he would have been treated in a very different way
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
Pointgod wrote:BullyKing wrote:Pointgod wrote:
Right now since Ben is not playing the Sixers are getting nothing from an asset. Morey is waiting for some unicorn deal that’s going to get him a MVP player, multiple first round picks, ownership stake in the team Simmons is traded to and the chance to be President for a day. At least if they just get out of his contract the Sixers save money and Morey can soothe his ego with the fact that he didn’t “give in”. The problem is Morey wants it one way but it’s the other way.
No matter how much hyperbole you couch it in, it doesn't obscure what a stupid position you're advocating. Morey might not be offered the assets he wants now but the idea that he should basically just release Simmons as a result is so beyond ridiculous.
If you are selling your house and the offers you received are under what you think it is worth, is your solution to just abandon it? Try and use a modicum of common sense here.
This position is no less stupid than Morey’s idiotic comment of “This can last 4 years”. So what’s Morey going to do just hold onto Simmons for the length of his contract and fine him? That fine money doesn’t go back to the 76ers. They’re literally paying for an asset that’s not contributing to their team.
What Morey is doing is keeping a house that he doesn’t even live in, instead of renting it out or selling it for below market value.
I guess you don't really own a lot of assets because there are tons of times when someone holds an asset they are not using because they think its value will rise over time. "Renting" is not an option here so I'm going to ignore that aspect. If you can afford to hold onto a house you're not using when you are only receiving "below market value" offers - that's pretty much what people always do. I bought a house. I still owned my condo that I could not rent (HOAs can burn in hell). I received offers on the condo that I am and my realtor thought were too low. I could afford to carry both places. I did until I received an offer that I thought was fair. Again, by your logic, I should have just canceled my insurance on the condo and then burnt it to the ground.
I don't understand the relevance or equivalency of Morey's this can last 4 years comment so I'll just assume it's another attempt at deflection.
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
BullyKing wrote:seren wrote:Best thing for all sides is they come to some sort of financial agreement and let him go.
Why would it be the "best thing" for the Sixers to lose an asset for nothing in return?
After what his agent said today, ie Simmons is not mentally fit to play in the NBA, I don't see how Simmons is an asset anymore. I don't believe Simmons should concentrate on playing professional basketball at this stage of his life. There is no shame in that. Many young promising players had to call it quits at a young age due to injuries/health. This is nothing different.
Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons
seren wrote:BullyKing wrote:seren wrote:Best thing for all sides is they come to some sort of financial agreement and let him go.
Why would it be the "best thing" for the Sixers to lose an asset for nothing in return?
After what his agent said today, ie Simmons is not mentally fit to play in the NBA, I don't see how Simmons is an asset anymore. I don't believe Simmons should concentrate on playing professional basketball at this stage of his life. There is no shame in that. Many young promising players had to call it quits at a young age due to injuries/health. This is nothing different.
Then Simmons should retire to focus on his mental health. That doesn't equate to the Sixers just setting him free from his contract to watch him have a miraculous recovery the second it happens.
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.