2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 4)

[timO]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/orlando-magic-franz-wagner-onlyfranz-evan-mobley-scottie-barnes-nba/

Good read as to why Franz should win ROY.

roy with the worst record

keep dreaming

[JonFromVA]

Franz averaged 20/5/3 (P/R/A) on 48/40/89 in December.

Prorated over a season, those are all-star numbers and any improvements would probably make him a top 10 player in the league.

Keep in mind that averaging 20+ PPG on 50/40/90 is an elite group membership of I believe 6 players (all of whom are or will be HoF players) since the '70s (after the 3 pt line installed) have averaged over a season.

I'm not arguing that Franz doesn't deserve it. I'm only mentioning the way Mobley's played since coming back because he's had 22/21/16 in his last three on great efficiency. Mobley putting up those kinds of numbers on a regular basis pretty much puts him head and shoulders above anyone else in this rookie class, including Franz, due to his elite defense on top of those numbers. But like I said before, it's only been brief and because he missed all those games this month, he wasn't able to expand on it.

Thus, Franz should be the ROM, and rightfully so.

Any rookie, Wagner aside, who puts up a 50/40/90 season on 20+ PPG would probably be considered the best rookie season of the last 50 years.

Kyrie came close, but over the past 50 years? C'mon, that includes greats who had no choice but to hone their game in College for 3 or 4 years.

[OrlMagic05]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/orlando-magic-franz-wagner-onlyfranz-evan-mobley-scottie-barnes-nba/

Good read as to why Franz should win ROY.

roy with the worst record

keep dreaming

Since when does the ROY have the best record? This isnt the MVP please keep moving..

[yoyoboy]

Just averaging out 5 of the major impact metrics for fun for the top ROTY contenders:

BPM:
1. Mobley: 2.0
2. Barnes: 1.1
3. Wagner: -0.8
4. Giddey: -1.1
5. Cunningham: -2.0

EPM:
1. Mobley: 2.7
2. Barnes: 1.2
3. Wagner: 1.1
4. Cunningham: -0.4
5. Giddey: -1.4

RAPTOR:
1. Barnes: 2.8
2. Mobley: 1.3
3. Wagner: 1.3
4. Giddey - -2.5
5. Cunningham: -3.3

LEBRON:
1. Mobley: 1.67
2. Barnes: 0.32
3. Wagner: -0.45
4. Cunningham: -1.41
5. Giddey: -1.89

RAPM:
1. Barnes: 0.36
2. Mobley: 0.03
3. Wagner: -0.43
4. Cunningham: -1.04
5. Giddey: -2.45

Average:
1. Mobley: 1.54
2. Barnes: 1.16
3. Wagner: 0.14
4. Cunningham: -1.63
5. Giddey: -1.87

That's exactly how I would rank them so far, as well.

[timO]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/orlando-magic-franz-wagner-onlyfranz-evan-mobley-scottie-barnes-nba/

Good read as to why Franz should win ROY.

roy with the worst record

keep dreaming

Since when does the ROY have the best record? This isnt the MVP please keep moving..

since a player is on a playoff team averaging 15-8-2-2 and with a top 5 defense

franz has nothing to do unless he averages 25 ppg on that bunch of scrubs

call us when he raises his ppg plz

[JonFromVA]

He has easily the most pure scoring talent out of the rookie class. Obviously he has a lot of weaknesses right now but idk why people point out the record with him. Not his fault alone and the Rockets are fine with losing as long as he shows the potential.

It may not be his fault, but great one and done rookies typically create wins for their team and because an explosive outing may be the only way his team is going to win - defenses will key up to stop them in key moments creating that next level of challenge you want to see.

For instance, some players are "unstoppable" until someone realizes they won't pass out of a double or even a triple team, or will never try to finish with their left hand, when dribbling left, etc.

[OrlMagic05]

roy with the worst record

keep dreaming

Since when does the ROY have the best record? This isnt the MVP please keep moving..

since a player is on a playoff team averaging 15-8-2-2 and with a top 5 defense

franz has nothing to do unless he averages 25 ppg on that bunch of scrubs

call us when he raises his ppg plz

This sounds so dumb.. Have you seen with who Franz is playing with? The Magic are legitimately starting 2 G leaguers and he still averaged 20ppg on close to 50/40/90 for the month of December.

This is by far the worst take I have ever seen for ROY. Now if we were talking about MVP, yes I would 100% agree with you, but rookies are usually on bad teams and Franz is on a horrible team with a ridiculous number of injuries. One guy cant do it all!

[timO]

Since when does the ROY have the best record? This isnt the MVP please keep moving..

since a player is on a playoff team averaging 15-8-2-2 and with a top 5 defense

franz has nothing to do unless he averages 25 ppg on that bunch of scrubs

call us when he raises his ppg plz

This sounds so dumb.. Have you seen with who Franz is playing with? The Magic are legitimately starting 2 G leaguers and he still averaged 20ppg on close to 50/40/90 for the month of December.

This is by far the worst take I have ever seen for ROY. Now if we were talking about MVP, yes I would 100% agree with you, but rookies are usually on bad teams and Franz is on a horrible team with a ridiculous number of injuries. One guy cant do it all!

dumb is thinking that franz is roy with raw stats on the worst team of the league

and with a MOBLEY MILES AHEAD OF HIM

[OrlMagic05]

since a player is on a playoff team averaging 15-8-2-2 and with a top 5 defense

franz has nothing to do unless he averages 25 ppg on that bunch of scrubs

call us when he raises his ppg plz

This sounds so dumb.. Have you seen with who Franz is playing with? The Magic are legitimately starting 2 G leaguers and he still averaged 20ppg on close to 50/40/90 for the month of December.

This is by far the worst take I have ever seen for ROY. Now if we were talking about MVP, yes I would 100% agree with you, but rookies are usually on bad teams and Franz is on a horrible team with a ridiculous number of injuries. One guy cant do it all!

dumb is thinking franz is roy with raw stats on the worst team of the league

and with a MOBLEY MILES AHEAD OF HIM

First, I never said Franz IS the ROY, I posted an article that legitimately said "reasons why Franz should win ROY"

While I do think Mobley will most likely win, put him on a team like the Magic and I dont think he would be getting as much hype. That Cavs team has a great combination of young/veteran talent which helps Mobley and same can be said about Barnes. Franz is literally playing with a TIM FRAZIER as his starting PG. Admiral Schofield started a game or two at PF! ADMIRAL SCHOFIELD!! Hassani Gravett started at PG a few games, FREDDIE GILLESPIE.. These are the guys Franz played with in December. Yes, the Magic didnt win many games, not sure you can expect much more for a team that had 4 G leaguers play a significant amount of games in the month of December, but yet Franz still put up a VERY efficient 20ppg 5reb 3ast on 48%FG 40%3pt and 89% FT.

[JonFromVA]

Just averaging out 5 of the major impact metrics for fun for the top ROTY contenders:

BPM:
1. Mobley: 2.0
2. Barnes: 1.1
3. Wagner: -0.8
4. Giddey: -1.1
5. Cunningham: -2.0

EPM:
1. Mobley: 2.7
2. Barnes: 1.2
3. Wagner: 1.1
4. Cunningham: -0.4
5. Giddey: -1.4

RAPTOR:
1. Barnes: 2.8
2. Mobley: 1.3
3. Wagner: 1.3
4. Giddey - -2.5
5. Cunningham: -3.3

LEBRON:
1. Mobley: 1.67
2. Barnes: 0.32
3. Wagner: -0.45
4. Cunningham: -1.41
5. Giddey: -1.89

RAPM:
1. Barnes: 0.36
2. Mobley: 0.03
3. Wagner: -0.43
4. Cunningham: -1.04
5. Giddey: -2.45

Average:
1. Mobley: 1.54
2. Barnes: 1.16
3. Wagner: 0.14
4. Cunningham: -1.63
5. Giddey: -1.87

That's exactly how I would rank them so far, as well.

Stepping back and looking at these numbers as numbers and not some magical basketball formula, what they tell me is that we have more than a 2 pt margin of error here, and while these stats may have nailed the top 3, due to the high margin of error literally any of them might actually be deserving of the #1 ranking.

As it turns out the average ranking is pretty close to the LEBRON ranking, which is not to suggest LEBRON is the best of the bunch or that the average is even useful as each system has it's own unique flaws.

[JonFromVA]

This sounds so dumb.. Have you seen with who Franz is playing with? The Magic are legitimately starting 2 G leaguers and he still averaged 20ppg on close to 50/40/90 for the month of December.

This is by far the worst take I have ever seen for ROY. Now if we were talking about MVP, yes I would 100% agree with you, but rookies are usually on bad teams and Franz is on a horrible team with a ridiculous number of injuries. One guy cant do it all!

dumb is thinking franz is roy with raw stats on the worst team of the league

and with a MOBLEY MILES AHEAD OF HIM

First, I never said Franz IS the ROY, I posted an article that legitimately said "reasons why Franz should win ROY"

While I do think Mobley will most likely win, put him on a team like the Magic and I dont think he would be getting as much hype. That Cavs team has a great combination of young/veteran talent which helps Mobley and same can be said about Barnes. Franz is literally playing with a TIM FRAZIER as his starting PG. Admiral Schofield started a game or two at PF! ADMIRAL SCHOFIELD!! Hassani Gravett started at PG a few games, FREDDIE GILLESPIE.. These are the guys Franz played with in December. Yes, the Magic didnt win many games, not sure you can expect much more for a team that had 4 G leaguers play a significant amount of games in the month of December, but yet Franz still put up a VERY efficient 20ppg 5reb 3ast on 48%FG 40%3pt and 89% FT.

Heh, every team has injury and Covid problems. In fact what Mobley has been doing while Sexton, Garland and Rubio have been out has been pretty amazing in terms of demonstrating his offensive versatility/upside.

[basketballRob]

Just averaging out 5 of the major impact metrics for fun for the top ROTY contenders:

BPM:
1. Mobley: 2.0
2. Barnes: 1.1
3. Wagner: -0.8
4. Giddey: -1.1
5. Cunningham: -2.0

EPM:
1. Mobley: 2.7
2. Barnes: 1.2
3. Wagner: 1.1
4. Cunningham: -0.4
5. Giddey: -1.4

RAPTOR:
1. Barnes: 2.8
2. Mobley: 1.3
3. Wagner: 1.3
4. Giddey - -2.5
5. Cunningham: -3.3

LEBRON:
1. Mobley: 1.67
2. Barnes: 0.32
3. Wagner: -0.45
4. Cunningham: -1.41
5. Giddey: -1.89

RAPM:
1. Barnes: 0.36
2. Mobley: 0.03
3. Wagner: -0.43
4. Cunningham: -1.04
5. Giddey: -2.45

Average:
1. Mobley: 1.54
2. Barnes: 1.16
3. Wagner: 0.14
4. Cunningham: -1.63
5. Giddey: -1.87

That's exactly how I would rank them so far, as well.

Off the top of my head I know Wagner's Raptor is 2.5, but thanks for the hard work.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[basketballRob]

roy with the worst record

keep dreaming

Since when does the ROY have the best record? This isnt the MVP please keep moving..

since a player is on a playoff team averaging 15-8-2-2 and with a top 5 defense

franz has nothing to do unless he averages 25 ppg on that bunch of scrubs

call us when he raises his ppg plz

Franz should take off a bunch of games to rest his legs so he can put up better stats.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[thelead]

dumb is thinking franz is roy with raw stats on the worst team of the league

and with a MOBLEY MILES AHEAD OF HIM

First, I never said Franz IS the ROY, I posted an article that legitimately said "reasons why Franz should win ROY"

While I do think Mobley will most likely win, put him on a team like the Magic and I dont think he would be getting as much hype. That Cavs team has a great combination of young/veteran talent which helps Mobley and same can be said about Barnes. Franz is literally playing with a TIM FRAZIER as his starting PG. Admiral Schofield started a game or two at PF! ADMIRAL SCHOFIELD!! Hassani Gravett started at PG a few games, FREDDIE GILLESPIE.. These are the guys Franz played with in December. Yes, the Magic didnt win many games, not sure you can expect much more for a team that had 4 G leaguers play a significant amount of games in the month of December, but yet Franz still put up a VERY efficient 20ppg 5reb 3ast on 48%FG 40%3pt and 89% FT.

Heh, every team has injury and Covid problems. In fact what Mobley has been doing while Sexton, Garland and Rubio have been out has been pretty amazing in terms of demonstrating his offensive versatility/upside.

I would easily take Mobley and likely Scottie over Franz (so far) but I'll drop this little nugget about the magic and how many games have been missed:

Read on Twitter

[basketballRob]

First, I never said Franz IS the ROY, I posted an article that legitimately said "reasons why Franz should win ROY"

While I do think Mobley will most likely win, put him on a team like the Magic and I dont think he would be getting as much hype. That Cavs team has a great combination of young/veteran talent which helps Mobley and same can be said about Barnes. Franz is literally playing with a TIM FRAZIER as his starting PG. Admiral Schofield started a game or two at PF! ADMIRAL SCHOFIELD!! Hassani Gravett started at PG a few games, FREDDIE GILLESPIE.. These are the guys Franz played with in December. Yes, the Magic didnt win many games, not sure you can expect much more for a team that had 4 G leaguers play a significant amount of games in the month of December, but yet Franz still put up a VERY efficient 20ppg 5reb 3ast on 48%FG 40%3pt and 89% FT.

Heh, every team has injury and Covid problems. In fact what Mobley has been doing while Sexton, Garland and Rubio have been out has been pretty amazing in terms of demonstrating his offensive versatility/upside.

I would easily take Mobley and likely Scottie over Franz (so far) but I'll drop this little nugget about the magic and how many games have been missed:

Read on Twitter

I would take Mobley over Franz, but not Scottie. I just trust Franz more long-term than Scottie. I'm not trying to argue with Raptor fans.

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[LoveMyRaps]

Just averaging out 5 of the major impact metrics for fun for the top ROTY contenders:

BPM:
1. Mobley: 2.0
2. Barnes: 1.1
3. Wagner: -0.8
4. Giddey: -1.1
5. Cunningham: -2.0

EPM:
1. Mobley: 2.7
2. Barnes: 1.2
3. Wagner: 1.1
4. Cunningham: -0.4
5. Giddey: -1.4

RAPTOR:
1. Barnes: 2.8
2. Mobley: 1.3
3. Wagner: 1.3
4. Giddey - -2.5
5. Cunningham: -3.3

LEBRON:
1. Mobley: 1.67
2. Barnes: 0.32
3. Wagner: -0.45
4. Cunningham: -1.41
5. Giddey: -1.89

RAPM:
1. Barnes: 0.36
2. Mobley: 0.03
3. Wagner: -0.43
4. Cunningham: -1.04
5. Giddey: -2.45

Average:
1. Mobley: 1.54
2. Barnes: 1.16
3. Wagner: 0.14
4. Cunningham: -1.63
5. Giddey: -1.87

That's exactly how I would rank them so far, as well.

Off the top of my head I know Wagner's Raptor is 2.5, but thanks for the hard work.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

His RAPTOR is 1.3

yoyoboy is right.

[thelead]

Heh, every team has injury and Covid problems. In fact what Mobley has been doing while Sexton, Garland and Rubio have been out has been pretty amazing in terms of demonstrating his offensive versatility/upside.

I would easily take Mobley and likely Scottie over Franz (so far) but I'll drop this little nugget about the magic and how many games have been missed:

Read on Twitter

I would take Mobley over Franz, but not Scottie. I just trust Franz more long-term than Scottie. I'm not trying to argue with Raptor fans.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

I could be swayed either way based on the games I've watched. I don't think either is head and shoulders above each other but I think I favor Scottie due to the all-NBA defensive potential. However, with the game on the line, I prefer Franz' decision making and shot making abilities more. Both are more than capable on both sides of the court though.

[basketballRob]

Just averaging out 5 of the major impact metrics for fun for the top ROTY contenders:

BPM:
1. Mobley: 2.0
2. Barnes: 1.1
3. Wagner: -0.8
4. Giddey: -1.1
5. Cunningham: -2.0

EPM:
1. Mobley: 2.7
2. Barnes: 1.2
3. Wagner: 1.1
4. Cunningham: -0.4
5. Giddey: -1.4

RAPTOR:
1. Barnes: 2.8
2. Mobley: 1.3
3. Wagner: 1.3
4. Giddey - -2.5
5. Cunningham: -3.3

LEBRON:
1. Mobley: 1.67
2. Barnes: 0.32
3. Wagner: -0.45
4. Cunningham: -1.41
5. Giddey: -1.89

RAPM:
1. Barnes: 0.36
2. Mobley: 0.03
3. Wagner: -0.43
4. Cunningham: -1.04
5. Giddey: -2.45

Average:
1. Mobley: 1.54
2. Barnes: 1.16
3. Wagner: 0.14
4. Cunningham: -1.63
5. Giddey: -1.87

That's exactly how I would rank them so far, as well.

Off the top of my head I know Wagner's Raptor is 2.5, but thanks for the hard work.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

His RAPTOR is 1.3

yoyoboy is right.

I was looking at Franz overall War score.

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[LoveMyRaps]

Off the top of my head I know Wagner's Raptor is 2.5, but thanks for the hard work.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

His RAPTOR is 1.3

yoyoboy is right.

Franz is 2.5.

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Why are you always posting nonsense and false information to hype up your guy ? I don't get it... It's pretty weird.

[basketballRob]

His RAPTOR is 1.3

yoyoboy is right.

Franz is 2.5.

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Why are you always posting nonsense and false information to hype up your guy ? I don't get it... It's pretty weird.

The final score on the Raptor rating is the War, and Franz is at 2.5. If you want to exclude that info to try and make your guy look better, that's fine.

I see Mobley would've been in 3rd if he use the Raptor War score, so he opted to overlook that.

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