NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[CobraCommander]

Neither Fox nor SGA are better than Luka

Per you - fox and SGA are rightfully not conceding that. I don’t know how you come to that conclusion.

I don’t know who is better but nothing is set in stone long term. Last year per the mvp voters SGA was better than Luka - and the year before that Booker was better than Luka....at least for that year.

At one point Giannis was better than Jokic, now not so much.


Luka hasn’t done anything that definitely says he us better or worse than either SGA or fox....they all balling out

You are driving me crazy. MVP is NOT the best player!!!!! MVP is an award mostly based on narratives!!!!!!

The narrative right now is Embiid or Jokic. Luka is not in the narrative on that level. Luka is similar to SGA and Tatum and Hali level narrative.

Giannis really isn’t in the true MVP conversation in my opinion- his numbers are crazy but everyone has crazy numbers-

It’s Embiid on numbers and Jokic on the narrative that he is the heir apparent from LBJ/ Curry as the best player on earth and the face of nba - With Giannis being the Curry to Jokics LBJ

[CobraCommander]

4 weeks ago

1. Jokic
2. Luka
3. Embiid
4. SGA
5. Haliburton

3 weeks ago
1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. Luka
4. SGA
5. Giannis

2 weeks ago
1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. SGA
4. Luka
5. Giannis

1 week ago
1. Embiid
2. Jokic
3. Giannis
4. SGA
5. Luka

Today
1. Embiid
2. Giannis
3. Jokic
4. Luka
5. SGA

I like this but I think today SGA is ahead of Luka because in the minds of the people a game winner is so impactful.

I also wonder why you see Giannis ahead of Jokic

Also no Haliburton in top 5 in the last month?

I think Haliburton was 3rd for a while there

[LordCovington33]

Joel Embiid has a PER of 34.5 which is absolutely ABSURD! And would bury Jokic’s record of 32.8 lol. Not only that but he has scored 752 points this season in 746 minutes! Nobody at the moment is touching Embiid he is on a level of his own this season.

When you take the most shots on your team at 23 in a 50 pt win you’re going to have a lot of pts. Giannis in a 30 pt win took 9 shots and made 7 of them. Giannis right now is playing better than anyone and that includes Embiid.
Giannis
Embiid
Jokic
Luka

Just a quick summary of your buck against the teams that all the stars supposedly feast on.

Giannis and Embiid against the worst 5 teams:

Bulls
Giannis
35/11/2 (35 minutes)
26/14/5 (39 minutes)
32/12/6 (41 minutes)
Embiid
N/A

Hawks
Giannis
26/11/3 (29 minutes)
32/11/10 (36 minutes)
Embiid
32/7/8 (37 minutes)
38/14/3 (36 minutes)

Hornets
Giannis
16/8/9 (28 minutes)
31/9/3 (37 minutes)
Embiid
42/15/3 (30 minutes)

Pistons
Giannis
15/9/5 (22 minutes)
22/8/6 (26 minutes)
Embiid
33/16/3 (36 minutes)
41/11/5 (31 minutes)
35/13/2 (29 minutes)

Wizards
Giannis
42/15/9 (34 minutes)
Embiid
48/11/6 (31 minutes)
50/13/7 (38 minutes)
34/11/6 (30 minutes)

Giannis 277 points in 327 minutes (27.7 PPG in 32.7 minutes)
Embiid 353 points in 298 minutes (39.2 PPG in 33.1 minutes)

[srhcan]

Embiid is now comfortably ahead in MVP race. But still lot of games left.

[Woodsanity]

For now Embiid is the leader. I have to admit that his stat padding against lesser teams is impressive. If he can produce similar levels in the playoffs instead of going down to 23 ppg I will gladly eat crow.

MVP is a regular season reward, I am not going to be like Embiid fans and say that a player shouldn't win anymore since he never did anything in the playoffs.

So yes for now Embiid is most deserving but I doubt he can maintain these numbers considering 50% of his game was against garbage teams like Wizards, Pistons, Hornets.

[Bum Adebayo]

For now Embiid is the leader. I have to admit that his stat padding against lesser teams is impressive. If he can produce similar levels in the playoffs instead of going down to 23 ppg I will gladly eat crow.

MVP is a regular season reward, I am not going to be like Embiid fans and say that a player shouldn't win anymore since he never did anything in the playoffs.

So yes for now Embiid is most deserving but I doubt he can maintain these numbers considering 50% of his game was against garbage teams like Wizards, Pistons, Hornets.

I mean, his averages are not that far from last season, actually he is scoring at slightly worse efficiency in terms of TS%, but slightly more PPG. Maybe the only outlier is his passing, which has improved a lot in terms of assists, he has done a bit worse in his last games.
So it's not that Embiid is playing much better compared to last season, it's more like Jokic is doing worse for now. I don't expect Jokic to post the ridiculous scoring efficiency of last season, but I expect him to be in the 64-66% TS again when the season ends.

[bigboi]

Per you - fox and SGA are rightfully not conceding that. I don’t know how you come to that conclusion.

I don’t know who is better but nothing is set in stone long term. Last year per the mvp voters SGA was better than Luka - and the year before that Booker was better than Luka....at least for that year.

At one point Giannis was better than Jokic, now not so much.


Luka hasn’t done anything that definitely says he us better or worse than either SGA or fox....they all balling out

You are driving me crazy. MVP is NOT the best player!!!!! MVP is an award mostly based on narratives!!!!!!

The narrative right now is Embiid or Jokic. Luka is not in the narrative on that level. Luka is similar to SGA and Tatum and Hali level narrative.

Giannis really isn’t in the true MVP conversation in my opinion- his numbers are crazy but everyone has crazy numbers-

It’s Embiid on numbers and Jokic on the narrative that he is the heir apparent from LBJ/ Curry as the best player on earth and the face of nba - With Giannis being the Curry to Jokics LBJ

Jokic isn’t the face of the NBA and ratings show that. Idk how you can possibly say that Jokic is the best player in the league either this season. Giannis to me is clearly the best player in the league while Embiid has the clear narrative advantage. Now with records, Jokic shouldn’t be over Luka either.

[maxpower8888]

You are driving me crazy. MVP is NOT the best player!!!!! MVP is an award mostly based on narratives!!!!!!

The narrative right now is Embiid or Jokic. Luka is not in the narrative on that level. Luka is similar to SGA and Tatum and Hali level narrative.

Giannis really isn’t in the true MVP conversation in my opinion- his numbers are crazy but everyone has crazy numbers-

It’s Embiid on numbers and Jokic on the narrative that he is the heir apparent from LBJ/ Curry as the best player on earth and the face of nba - With Giannis being the Curry to Jokics LBJ

Jokic isn’t the face of the NBA and ratings show that. Idk how you can possibly say that Jokic is the best player in the league either this season. Giannis to me is clearly the best player in the league while Embiid has the clear narrative advantage. Now with records, Jokic shouldn’t be over Luka either.

Jokic is still the best player in the league, Denver have just been losing way too many games away from home. I feel like the rest of the team has really been letting him down, they've looked a bit lazy at times.

[CobraCommander]

The narrative right now is Embiid or Jokic. Luka is not in the narrative on that level. Luka is similar to SGA and Tatum and Hali level narrative.

Giannis really isn’t in the true MVP conversation in my opinion- his numbers are crazy but everyone has crazy numbers-

It’s Embiid on numbers and Jokic on the narrative that he is the heir apparent from LBJ/ Curry as the best player on earth and the face of nba - With Giannis being the Curry to Jokics LBJ

Jokic isn’t the face of the NBA and ratings show that. Idk how you can possibly say that Jokic is the best player in the league either this season. Giannis to me is clearly the best player in the league while Embiid has the clear narrative advantage. Now with records, Jokic shouldn’t be over Luka either.

Jokic is still the best player in the league, Denver have just been losing way too many games away from home. I feel like the rest of the team has really been letting him down, they've looked a bit lazy at times.

Does anyone think Jokic ISNT the best player on earth....who are these crazy people lol (eyetoma standing up right now)

Jokic isn’t the face of the league in the same way Tim Duncan wasn’t...but Tim was to the people that cared about basketball.

The people that like flash are gonna love someone like Zion or Ja more that Jokic.

Everyone the love getting buckets, love Luka but he isn’t in the conversation with Jokic on any level.

I suspect If Luka was American he would already be the face of the league but right now he isn’t good enough to overcome American jingoism.

The mvp is going to be Jokic Embiid or Giannis....if Tatum gets close he could steal it because he is in Boston and the “best American under 30”

[dygaction]

Jokic isn’t the face of the NBA and ratings show that. Idk how you can possibly say that Jokic is the best player in the league either this season. Giannis to me is clearly the best player in the league while Embiid has the clear narrative advantage. Now with records, Jokic shouldn’t be over Luka either.

Jokic is still the best player in the league, Denver have just been losing way too many games away from home. I feel like the rest of the team has really been letting him down, they've looked a bit lazy at times.

Does anyone think Jokic ISNT the best player on earth....who are these crazy people lol (eyetoma standing up right now)

Jokic isn’t the face of the league in the same way Tim Duncan wasn’t...but Tim was to the people that cared about basketball.

The people that like flash are gonna love someone like Zion or Ja more that Jokic.

Everyone the love getting buckets, love Luka but he isn’t in the conversation with Jokic on any level.

I suspect If Luka was American he would already be the face of the league but right now he isn’t good enough to overcome American jingoism.

The mvp is going to be Jokic Embiid or Giannis....if Tatum gets close he could steal it because he is in Boston and the “best American under 30”

You seem to be too obsessed with narrative than others here discussing who are the MVP with the past ~20 games played. I agree Jokic is a better player than Luka but he has worth record with a healthier team AS OF now... If everything can be just based on emotion, why playing the games?

[whatever_]

this thread almost gives me anxiety

you should all chill

[CobraCommander]

Jokic is still the best player in the league, Denver have just been losing way too many games away from home. I feel like the rest of the team has really been letting him down, they've looked a bit lazy at times.

Does anyone think Jokic ISNT the best player on earth....who are these crazy people lol (eyetoma standing up right now)

Jokic isn’t the face of the league in the same way Tim Duncan wasn’t...but Tim was to the people that cared about basketball.

The people that like flash are gonna love someone like Zion or Ja more that Jokic.

Everyone the love getting buckets, love Luka but he isn’t in the conversation with Jokic on any level.

I suspect If Luka was American he would already be the face of the league but right now he isn’t good enough to overcome American jingoism.

The mvp is going to be Jokic Embiid or Giannis....if Tatum gets close he could steal it because he is in Boston and the “best American under 30”

You seem to be too obsessed with narrative than others here discussing who are the MVP with the past ~20 games played. I agree Jokic is a better player than Luka but he has worth record with a healthier team AS OF now... If everything can be just based on emotion, why playing the games?

So if we saying mvp for this year - not narrative- just this year… I have Giannis, Embiid and Jokic as the only being worthy regardless of narrative. These 3 are on a much different level than the guys 4- 12.

If KD wasn’t missing games, I would have him 4th earlier this year but Hali, SGA, Fox, Tatum, Booker, Luka all right there with the 4

[dygaction]

Does anyone think Jokic ISNT the best player on earth....who are these crazy people lol (eyetoma standing up right now)

Jokic isn’t the face of the league in the same way Tim Duncan wasn’t...but Tim was to the people that cared about basketball.

The people that like flash are gonna love someone like Zion or Ja more that Jokic.

Everyone the love getting buckets, love Luka but he isn’t in the conversation with Jokic on any level.

I suspect If Luka was American he would already be the face of the league but right now he isn’t good enough to overcome American jingoism.

The mvp is going to be Jokic Embiid or Giannis....if Tatum gets close he could steal it because he is in Boston and the “best American under 30”

You seem to be too obsessed with narrative than others here discussing who are the MVP with the past ~20 games played. I agree Jokic is a better player than Luka but he has worth record with a healthier team AS OF now... If everything can be just based on emotion, why playing the games?

So if we saying mvp for this year - not narrative- just this year… I have Giannis, Embiid and Jokic as the only being worthy regardless of narrative. These 3 are on a much different level than the guys 4- 12.

If KD wasn’t missing games, I would have him 4th earlier this year but Hali, SGA, Fox, Tatum, Booker, Luka all right there with the 4

Welcome to the thread then.
Love me some Jokic, but if you are actually judging by this season, he is not a safe top 3 because the margin for error is just so slim. He had a few terrible games that just was not himself, was ejected in the second quarter two times. Not entirely his fault of being ejected, but again to gladly bag in the two wins appears to be inappropriate. A 16-10 or 14W-10 record depending how you look at the wins is not enough to comfortably above SGA's 16-7 or Luka's 16-8, with a weaker and more injury plagued cast.

[CobraCommander]

You seem to be too obsessed with narrative than others here discussing who are the MVP with the past ~20 games played. I agree Jokic is a better player than Luka but he has worth record with a healthier team AS OF now... If everything can be just based on emotion, why playing the games?

So if we saying mvp for this year - not narrative- just this year… I have Giannis, Embiid and Jokic as the only being worthy regardless of narrative. These 3 are on a much different level than the guys 4- 12.

If KD wasn’t missing games, I would have him 4th earlier this year but Hali, SGA, Fox, Tatum, Booker, Luka all right there with the 4

Welcome to the thread then.
Love me some Jokic, but if you are actually judging by this season, he is not a safe top 3 because the margin for error is just so slim. He had a few terrible games that just was not himself, was ejected in the second quarter two times. Not entirely his fault of being ejected, but again to gladly bag in the two wins appears to be inappropriate. A 16-10 or 14W-10 record depending how you look at the wins is not enough to comfortably above SGA's 16-7 or Luka's 16-8, with a weaker and more injury plagued cast.

But let’s just be honest- jokic is coming off a MVP year where he got robbed and then validated being robbed by winning a FMVP. The MVP isn’t just stats - but if it’s stats Jokic is still amazing - if it’s narrative he is still amazing -

One bad week doesn’t change that - his bad weeks still MVP caliber. It’s not just me- jokic winning the poll RIGHT now and wasn’t a few days ago.. who was winning the poll a few days ago? The guy in 3rd .

So welcome to the thread sir - to yourself as well lol.

And all that said- Embiid isn’t winning the RealGM poll but all the online polls and sport writer polls have Embiid

I have not seen a poll that has anyone other than Embiid or Jokic this year…

[iggymcfrack]

Jokic is still the best player in the league, Denver have just been losing way too many games away from home. I feel like the rest of the team has really been letting him down, they've looked a bit lazy at times.

Does anyone think Jokic ISNT the best player on earth....who are these crazy people lol (eyetoma standing up right now)

Jokic isn’t the face of the league in the same way Tim Duncan wasn’t...but Tim was to the people that cared about basketball.

The people that like flash are gonna love someone like Zion or Ja more that Jokic.

Everyone the love getting buckets, love Luka but he isn’t in the conversation with Jokic on any level.

I suspect If Luka was American he would already be the face of the league but right now he isn’t good enough to overcome American jingoism.

The mvp is going to be Jokic Embiid or Giannis....if Tatum gets close he could steal it because he is in Boston and the “best American under 30”

You seem to be too obsessed with narrative than others here discussing who are the MVP with the past ~20 games played. I agree Jokic is a better player than Luka but he has worth record with a healthier team AS OF now... If everything can be just based on emotion, why playing the games?

-With Jokic and Doncic on the floor, the Nuggets' point differential is 7.9 points better per 100 possessions

-With Jokic and Doncic on the bench, the Mavericks' point differential is 12.9 points better per 100 possessions

-Jokic has 1 teammate with a positive BPM. He's played 13 games.

-Doncic has 3 teammates with positive BPMs. They've played 62 games.

By any objective measure, Luka's teammates have played much better than Jokic's teammates so far this year and the Mavericks still only have a one game better record due to playing a much easier schedule and getting lucky in close games. The Nuggets SRS is 3.2 points higher.

[dygaction]

So if we saying mvp for this year - not narrative- just this year… I have Giannis, Embiid and Jokic as the only being worthy regardless of narrative. These 3 are on a much different level than the guys 4- 12.

If KD wasn’t missing games, I would have him 4th earlier this year but Hali, SGA, Fox, Tatum, Booker, Luka all right there with the 4

Welcome to the thread then.
Love me some Jokic, but if you are actually judging by this season, he is not a safe top 3 because the margin for error is just so slim. He had a few terrible games that just was not himself, was ejected in the second quarter two times. Not entirely his fault of being ejected, but again to gladly bag in the two wins appears to be inappropriate. A 16-10 or 14W-10 record depending how you look at the wins is not enough to comfortably above SGA's 16-7 or Luka's 16-8, with a weaker and more injury plagued cast.

But let’s just be honest- jokic is coming off a MVP year where he got robbed and then validated being robbed by winning a FMVP. The MVP isn’t just stats - but if it’s stats Jokic is still amazing - if it’s narrative he is still amazing -

One bad week doesn’t change that - his bad weeks still MVP caliber. It’s not just me- jokic winning the poll RIGHT now and wasn’t a few days ago.. who was winning the poll a few days ago? The guy in 3rd .

So welcome to the thread sir - to yourself as well lol.

And all that said- Embiid isn’t winning the RealGM poll but all the online polls and sport writer polls have Embiid

I have not seen a poll that has anyone other than Embiid or Jokic this year…

So let's be honest, you still want to discuss narrative instead of up to now season performance.
I dont disagree the top 3, but to say them at a different level is laughable, especially how Giannis is slowly climbing up the ladder crossed with several others.. Game stats, advanced stats, and w/l nothing support that.

[dygaction]

Does anyone think Jokic ISNT the best player on earth....who are these crazy people lol (eyetoma standing up right now)

Jokic isn’t the face of the league in the same way Tim Duncan wasn’t...but Tim was to the people that cared about basketball.

The people that like flash are gonna love someone like Zion or Ja more that Jokic.

Everyone the love getting buckets, love Luka but he isn’t in the conversation with Jokic on any level.

I suspect If Luka was American he would already be the face of the league but right now he isn’t good enough to overcome American jingoism.

The mvp is going to be Jokic Embiid or Giannis....if Tatum gets close he could steal it because he is in Boston and the “best American under 30”

You seem to be too obsessed with narrative than others here discussing who are the MVP with the past ~20 games played. I agree Jokic is a better player than Luka but he has worth record with a healthier team AS OF now... If everything can be just based on emotion, why playing the games?

-With Jokic and Doncic on the floor, the Nuggets' point differential is 7.9 points better per 100 possessions

-With Jokic and Doncic on the bench, the Mavericks' point differential is 12.9 points better per 100 possessions

-Jokic has 1 teammate with a positive BPM. He's played 13 games.

-Doncic has 3 teammates with positive BPMs. They've played 62 games.

By any objective measure, Luka's teammates have played much better than Jokic's teammates so far this year and the Mavericks still only have a one game better record due to playing a much easier schedule and getting lucky in close games. The Nuggets SRS is 3.2 points higher.

So does Luka make teammates better or he pounds the ball so others don't have rhythm? Mavs have 0 player from last year this time in the starting lineup playing with Luka. If we can agree that Mavs do not have a better lineup or healthier roster, they are over achieving by quite a lot, no? I don't even argue Luka is better, but there is no clear separation between them now when you judge using the criteria for MVP.

[Hussien Fatal]

Joel Embiid has a PER of 34.5 which is absolutely ABSURD! And would bury Jokic’s record of 32.8 lol. Not only that but he has scored 752 points this season in 746 minutes! Nobody at the moment is touching Embiid he is on a level of his own this season.

When you take the most shots on your team at 23 in a 50 pt win you’re going to have a lot of pts. Giannis in a 30 pt win took 9 shots and made 7 of them. Giannis right now is playing better than anyone and that includes Embiid.
Giannis
Embiid
Jokic
Luka

Just a quick summary of your buck against the teams that all the stars supposedly feast on.

Giannis and Embiid against the worst 5 teams:

Bulls
Giannis
35/11/2 (35 minutes)
26/14/5 (39 minutes)
32/12/6 (41 minutes)
Embiid
N/A

Hawks
Giannis
26/11/3 (29 minutes)
32/11/10 (36 minutes)
Embiid
32/7/8 (37 minutes)
38/14/3 (36 minutes)

Hornets
Giannis
16/8/9 (28 minutes)
31/9/3 (37 minutes)
Embiid
42/15/3 (30 minutes)

Pistons
Giannis
15/9/5 (22 minutes)
22/8/6 (26 minutes)
Embiid
33/16/3 (36 minutes)
41/11/5 (31 minutes)
35/13/2 (29 minutes)

Wizards
Giannis
42/15/9 (34 minutes)
Embiid
48/11/6 (31 minutes)
50/13/7 (38 minutes)
34/11/6 (30 minutes)

Giannis 277 points in 327 minutes (27.7 PPG in 32.7 minutes)
Embiid 353 points in 298 minutes (39.2 PPG in 33.1 minutes)

Good post! Looks like Giannis plays more minutes vs the bad teams but is less productive!

[Mavrelous]

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[CobraCommander]

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