Metta World Peace elbow to Harden

[theokie]

Now that its been confirmed to be a concussion, Artest is out for the year including playoffs. Stern has to protect opposing teams and players from this nonsense.

That and there are gonna be some problems with a potential Lakers/Thunder series in the second round. With hotheads like Ibaka and Perkins up against Artest and Bynum, **** gonna go down.

[Ballings7]

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. From what I've seen, Artest has changed. And even today I think you guys are overblowing this. Like I said, I'm not arguing that the elbow wasn't thrown on purpose. I'm arguing whether he threw it with the intent to knock the guy out, rather than with the intent to clear space while he was celebrating. It was still wrong, but it wasn't the devilish act most people are making it out to be.

I really do agree... he didn't mean to hit him that bad... he meant to make contact, but more of an "excuse me, I want to go up the court and celebrate too"

[Doctor MJ]

second?

5/5/11
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (LAL) for 1 game and assessed him a flagrant
foul for hitting J.J. Barea (Dal) in the face late in Wednesday's Dal-LAL
game.

7/14/07
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Sac) for 7 games for his no contest plea in
May to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge.

4/24/06
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Sac) for 1 game for throwing an elbow at
Manu Ginobili (SA) during Saturday's Sac-SA game.

11/21/04
The NBA came down hard with the suspensions for Friday's Ind-Det brawl that
involved players going into the stands and punches being exchanged between
players and fans. Ron Artest (Ind) was suspended for the rest of the season.

5/25/04
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $10,000 for making an obscene gesture
during Monday's Det-Ind game.

3/19/04
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 1 game for elbowing Derek Anderson
(Por) during Wednesday's Ind-Por game.

4/3/03
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $20,000 for his obscene gesture to the
crowd during Wednesday's Ind-Cle game.

3/20/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 2 games for accumulating 8 flagrant
foul points. Every flagrant foul he receives for the rest of the regular
season will now result in a 2 game suspension.

3/13/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 1 game for his flagrant foul during
Wednesday's Ind-Phi game. Artest has exceeded the maximum number of
flagrant foul points allowed and will be suspended for 1 game for each
flagrant foul point he earns the rest of the regular season.

3/9/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 1 game after Artest collected his 6th
flagrant foul point.

2/26/03
Indiana suspended Ron Artest for 1 game for disciplinary reasons.

1/29/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 4 games for flipping off the crowd
and his interaction with Pat Riley (Mia) during Monday's Ind-Mia game.

1/4/03
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $35,000 and suspended him for 3 games for
throwing a television monitor and smashing a $100,000 TV camera after
Friday's Ind-NY game

12/19/02
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $10,000 for shoving Raja Bell (Dal) and
failing to leave the court in a timely manner following his ejection
during Tuesday's Dal-Ind game.

2/21/01
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Chi) $7,500 and suspended him for 1 game and
fined Glenn Robinson (Mil) $7,500 and suspended him for 1 game for their
fight in Tuesday's Chi-Mil game.

/thread

Already been suspended 15 times? C'mon folks.

[hollabackitsobi]

I'm convinced that it was unintentional this is only becoming a huge thing because its Ron Artest and the NBA is becoming more of a soap opera now so of course people have to blow this up

Confirmation bias says hi.

Bias?.......look at my ****ing username

Confirmation bias is a different thing entirely from regular bias, just FYI.

[TeeheeDumDum]

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. From what I've seen, Artest has changed. And even today I think you guys are overblowing this. Like I said, I'm not arguing that the elbow wasn't thrown on purpose. I'm arguing that he threw it with the intent to knock the guy out, rather than with the intent to clear space while he was celebrating. It was still wrong, but it wasn't the devilish act most people are making it out to be.

It's just, considering precedents, there's no way it'll be under 5 games. As a Laker fan, I'd love for him to be back 1st round of the playoffs.
Even if he has changed, that was a severe elbow to a vulnerable area. It's really not up to discussion. There's no chance it's under 5 games (without backlash from the informed public).

[theokie]

I've said this before but worth replying here:

Why do think intent matters here?

Now, if you really think this was an accidental elbow, then I understand your confusion. However, whether or not Artest thought before wound up and did a full force elbow to the head matters very little after you've had as many run ins with the law as he had.

Bottom line: Ron can't change. He has a hair trigger. If he comes back, everyone knows this can happen again, so what's the motivation for letting him come back at all?

I feel like people think people like me are squeamish. It's not that, I just not a bleeding heart for Ron here. Why should Stern let Artest come back? What does the league have to gain by his presence?

Intent matters for the same reason that it matters in the criminal justice system. If he intentionally swung his elbow to hit Harden in the neck, that is a demonstration of malicious intent and a depraved mind and should be punished more severely. If it was simply Artest being in the heat of the moment, swinging his elbow to get Harden out of the way, maybe to hit him in the shoulder, than its simply wreckless conduct and should be punished less severely.

Intent is why we have different degrees of murder

1st
2nd
Involuntary Manslaughter

It wasn't intentional. It was reckless though, which is still sufficient to uphold a verdict of voluntary manslaughter or 2nd degree murder in most jurisdictions.

Depraved heart murder for sure

[hollabackitsobi]

If Robin Lopez did something like this you wouldn't be so adamant about the his legal outcome and you know it's the truth.

That's true. I didn't see any outrage from him when Lopez cowardly grabbed Griffin's neck from behind.

Wow.

[Kalidogg24]

What MWP was horrible and a mistake.

Oh, did your vajayjay feel threatened by his passion? Man up.

Hard not to laugh at this comeback comment.

My kind of dude. Kudos.

[droponov]

That was more of a "get off me" than "I'm going to clock this dude in his head" type of thing. It happened quickly and Artest was emotional after the dunk. Some of ya'll are overreacting AS USUAL when it comes to these types of things.

I can see where Artest is coming from. Don't be running all up on me like that. You gotta give a man some space when he's pumped up and emotional. Harden ran into Artest first. He could have walked by him but chose to walk INTO him. That's disrespectful. So he got hit. He could have totally avoided the whole situation.

yes. That stupid harden shouldn't be bumping into people. And if he does, its his fault if he gets an elbow to the back of the ear.

Ban Artest for life. Im sick of this guy.

I just understand why Artest did what he did. Some of you are waaaay too emotionally involved. Everybody is posting with there emotions and not actually understanding the situation. The fact that people are saying Artest should be banned or suspended for the whole playoffs just confirms that.

Harden walked into Artest's path and bumped him while he was celebrating. He disrespected him, and Artest made a move. He wasn't trying to literally knock the guy out so everybody calm down.

How do you know that?

It was a deliberate elbow to the head with the ball out of play. His intent was to hit Harden.

Anyone who thinks that Artest will get a lesser suspension than Melo when he punched that Knicks players is being flat out delusional. Considering his disciplinary record, it can get fairly worse.

[Kalidogg24]

If Robin Lopez did something like this you wouldn't be so adamant about the his legal outcome and you know it's the truth.

That's true. I didn't see any outrage from him when Lopez cowardly grabbed Griffin's neck from behind.

Wow.

An you know damn well Obi , Robin a bruiser as well.

[Black Feet]

second?

5/5/11
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (LAL) for 1 game and assessed him a flagrant
foul for hitting J.J. Barea (Dal) in the face late in Wednesday's Dal-LAL
game.

7/14/07
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Sac) for 7 games for his no contest plea in
May to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge.

4/24/06
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Sac) for 1 game for throwing an elbow at
Manu Ginobili (SA) during Saturday's Sac-SA game.

11/21/04
The NBA came down hard with the suspensions for Friday's Ind-Det brawl that
involved players going into the stands and punches being exchanged between
players and fans. Ron Artest (Ind) was suspended for the rest of the season.

5/25/04
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $10,000 for making an obscene gesture
during Monday's Det-Ind game.

3/19/04
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 1 game for elbowing Derek Anderson
(Por) during Wednesday's Ind-Por game.

4/3/03
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $20,000 for his obscene gesture to the
crowd during Wednesday's Ind-Cle game.

3/20/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 2 games for accumulating 8 flagrant
foul points. Every flagrant foul he receives for the rest of the regular
season will now result in a 2 game suspension.

3/13/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 1 game for his flagrant foul during
Wednesday's Ind-Phi game. Artest has exceeded the maximum number of
flagrant foul points allowed and will be suspended for 1 game for each
flagrant foul point he earns the rest of the regular season.

3/9/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 1 game after Artest collected his 6th
flagrant foul point.

2/26/03
Indiana suspended Ron Artest for 1 game for disciplinary reasons.

1/29/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 4 games for flipping off the crowd
and his interaction with Pat Riley (Mia) during Monday's Ind-Mia game.

1/4/03
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $35,000 and suspended him for 3 games for
throwing a television monitor and smashing a $100,000 TV camera after
Friday's Ind-NY game

12/19/02
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $10,000 for shoving Raja Bell (Dal) and
failing to leave the court in a timely manner following his ejection
during Tuesday's Dal-Ind game.

2/21/01
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Chi) $7,500 and suspended him for 1 game and
fined Glenn Robinson (Mil) $7,500 and suspended him for 1 game for their
fight in Tuesday's Chi-Mil game.

/thread

Already been suspended 15 times? C'mon folks.

far from it, and no he hasn't been suspended 15 times some of those are only fines. I could pull up a big list of fines and suspensions for a lot of players. People need to stop overreacting.

[Kobe2ndFiddle]

I see this just as a second strike for Artest, the first blow up was clearly intentionally and put shame upon the league like no other.

This second offense WAS NOT intentionally, so it should be dealed with accordingly but a lifetime ban would be overstepping.

second?

5/5/11
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (LAL) for 1 game and assessed him a flagrant
foul for hitting J.J. Barea (Dal) in the face late in Wednesday's Dal-LAL
game.

7/14/07
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Sac) for 7 games for his no contest plea in
May to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge.

4/24/06
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Sac) for 1 game for throwing an elbow at
Manu Ginobili (SA) during Saturday's Sac-SA game.

11/21/04
The NBA came down hard with the suspensions for Friday's Ind-Det brawl that
involved players going into the stands and punches being exchanged between
players and fans. Ron Artest (Ind) was suspended for the rest of the season.

5/25/04
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $10,000 for making an obscene gesture
during Monday's Det-Ind game.

3/19/04
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 1 game for elbowing Derek Anderson
(Por) during Wednesday's Ind-Por game.

4/3/03
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $20,000 for his obscene gesture to the
crowd during Wednesday's Ind-Cle game.

3/20/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 2 games for accumulating 8 flagrant
foul points. Every flagrant foul he receives for the rest of the regular
season will now result in a 2 game suspension.

3/13/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 1 game for his flagrant foul during
Wednesday's Ind-Phi game. Artest has exceeded the maximum number of
flagrant foul points allowed and will be suspended for 1 game for each
flagrant foul point he earns the rest of the regular season.

3/9/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 1 game after Artest collected his 6th
flagrant foul point.

2/26/03
Indiana suspended Ron Artest for 1 game for disciplinary reasons.

1/29/03
The NBA suspended Ron Artest (Ind) for 4 games for flipping off the crowd
and his interaction with Pat Riley (Mia) during Monday's Ind-Mia game.

1/4/03
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $35,000 and suspended him for 3 games for
throwing a television monitor and smashing a $100,000 TV camera after
Friday's Ind-NY game

12/19/02
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Ind) $10,000 for shoving Raja Bell (Dal) and
failing to leave the court in a timely manner following his ejection
during Tuesday's Dal-Ind game.

2/21/01
The NBA fined Ron Artest (Chi) $7,500 and suspended him for 1 game and
fined Glenn Robinson (Mil) $7,500 and suspended him for 1 game for their
fight in Tuesday's Chi-Mil game.

Yes he has a re-occurring history of incidents, but to this degree only one other.


hmmm...


....

You know what ? I wanted him out of the league a couple months ago anyways, I guess this whole thing is my big break. Why am I so hesitant to see him leave all of sudden ?

SEND HIM PACKING

[JoseRizal]

That elbow to the head looks really painful, no flopping display needed (pun intended)

It's funny how Ron Artest changed his name to something he won't ever become... Ironically Oxymoron...

[Kalidogg24]

10 game suspension if Harden comes out okay.

Imo 10 is a little too much.

But it's definitely possible.
I think 2 to 3 games is fair.

Seriously though how many of you guys watched games during the 80's?
The Old guys are laughing at how soft we "the youth" is.

[Ron Harper]

It has to be a lengthy ban. This is the same guy who went into the stands and attacked people.

I'm sure there are some in this thread that say it wasn't intentional, but it was. It was brutal and he knew what he was doing.

Either way I'm sure he'll get a lengthy ban. Maybe 20+ games.

Would not be surprised if he just retires after the suspension comes down.

[Nate505]

I'll be stunned if he doesn't get at least 5 games. I'd give him pretty much the rest of the year off I were Stern.

[MastaStrategist]

Metta WorldPeace‏@MettaWorldPeace
Hope James Hardin is ok... I remember when I hit by Marc Gasol the same way.. I was spitting up blood and a headache during the game..

[Nuntius]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A60KLjIFksA[/youtube]

How many games did Shaq get suspended for this?

Looks very similar

What???

No, it doesn't. It's not even close.

[Doctor MJ]

I've said this before but worth replying here:

Why do think intent matters here?

Now, if you really think this was an accidental elbow, then I understand your confusion. However, whether or not Artest thought before wound up and did a full force elbow to the head matters very little after you've had as many run ins with the law as he had.

Bottom line: Ron can't change. He has a hair trigger. If he comes back, everyone knows this can happen again, so what's the motivation for letting him come back at all?

I feel like people think people like me are squeamish. It's not that, I just not a bleeding heart for Ron here. Why should Stern let Artest come back? What does the league have to gain by his presence?

Intent matters for the same reason that it matters in the criminal justice system. If he intentionally swung his elbow to hit Harden in the neck, that is a demonstration of malicious intent and a depraved mind and should be punished more severely. If it was simply Artest being in the heat of the moment, swinging his elbow to get Harden out of the way, maybe to hit him in the shoulder, than its simply wreckless conduct and should be punished less severely.

Intent is why we have different degrees of murder

1st
2nd
Involuntary Manslaughter

Intent matters because it helps us determine the danger to the rest of society. Someone who repeatedly hurts other people because of poor impulse control is a dangerous and gets locked up for good even if he never meant to hurt anyone. That's where we are at with Ron now...except that he's not going to prison, he's not losing freedom, he's only (conceivably) getting fired.

People are way too sympathetic too his plight. Ban him, and go worry about some genocidal tyrant in Africa.

[blocks]

If James Harden can forgive Metta, it baffles me that everyone else is in such an uproar about it.

Agreed. He deserves to sit out a few games, but some of you guys got your panties all bunched up.