MVP discussion thread

B-easy · Post #621 » by **B-easy** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:11 am

big_ticket wrote:PG24 is one of the overpaid guys in the league,just benefiting on hibberts play

nah he is really good now, last year he was overrated for me. But i do think hibbert deserves more love , the whole team has great chemistry they don't have a superstar but they all work together well.

lethalizer · Post #622 » by **lethalizer** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:39 am

B-easy wrote:
big_ticket wrote:PG24 is one of the overpaid guys in the league,just benefiting on hibberts play

nah he is really good now, last year he was overrated for me. But i do think hibbert deserves more love , the whole team has great chemistry they don't have a superstar but they all work together well.

Well, they are dishing out superstar money for those guys.. I think they both expected these guys to BECOME superstars when they signed those extensions.

I doubt Hibbert will ever become one, but I'm hopeful of George. If he settles on guarding the opposition's best perimeter player for stretches, he may conserve enough energy to get to another gear on offense. Pacers are a well-rounded defensive team, they may survive not putting George on that player all the time. He is being asked to do too much.

xBulletproof · Post #623 » by **xBulletproof** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:15 pm

G-Menn wrote:And people claiming he's borderline top 5 player or tweets comparing him to pippen is what I mean.

The fact that something as simple as this can't get through your homer skull is laughable.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using RealGM Forums mobile app

That might be what you mean, but it's nowhere near what you said. You've said repeatedly that your problem was with people saying the only, or sole reason the Pacers were winning was because of Paul George. So, now they're not saying that, that's the problem .... it's something else.

And you wonder about me and can't figure out why it can't 'get through my homer skull'. Hard to peg a moving target when you're changing what your problem is. So here's what I'm 'babbling' about .....

G-Menn wrote:when all I was doing was responding to those who claimed PG was the sole reason for the pacers success which is just silly.

Again, where did anyone say this?

JulesWinnfield · Post #624 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:45 pm

After last night Lebron took the rebounding lead on Miami despite this being an underwhelming rebounding start by him. He now leads the Heat in scoring, rebounds and asssits for the 3rd season in a row. For a guy to lead a team in all of those categories is entirely uncommon, especially among contention level teams. For a guy to do it three years in a row is unprecedented. And he did it in the postseason in each of their 2 title runs too

When you break down the valuable aspect of "Most Valuable", how does anyone get more valuable to a team than being their leading scorer, leading rebounder, primary facilitator and best defensive player who is probably Miami's best option defensively at 4 positions?

Styrian · Post #625 » by **Styrian** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:08 pm

JulesWinnfield wrote:After last night Lebron took the rebounding lead on Miami despite this being an underwhelming rebounding start by him. He now leads the Heat in scoring, rebounds and asssits for the 3rd season in a row. For a guy to lead a team in all of those categories is entirely uncommon, especially among contention level teams. For a guy to do it three years in a row is unprecedented. And he did it in the postseason in each of their 2 title runs too

When you break down the valuable aspect of "Most Valuable", how does anyone get more valuable to a team than being their leading scorer, leading rebounder, primary facilitator and best defensive player who is probably Miami's best option defensively at 4 positions?

Versality doesn't equal valuable. Cousins is leading Kings in scoring, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, that doesn't make him the most valuable player.

Post #626 » by **mopper8** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:11 pm

Styrian wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:After last night Lebron took the rebounding lead on Miami despite this being an underwhelming rebounding start by him. He now leads the Heat in scoring, rebounds and asssits for the 3rd season in a row. For a guy to lead a team in all of those categories is entirely uncommon, especially among contention level teams. For a guy to do it three years in a row is unprecedented. And he did it in the postseason in each of their 2 title runs too

When you break down the valuable aspect of "Most Valuable", how does anyone get more valuable to a team than being their leading scorer, leading rebounder, primary facilitator and best defensive player who is probably Miami's best option defensively at 4 positions?

Versality doesn't equal valuable. Cousins is leading Kings in scoring, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, that doesn't make him the most valuable player.

Who do you think is the Kings' most valuable player? Just curious.

edit: also, just checked, Cousins isn't close to leading them in assists.

JulesWinnfield · Post #627 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:14 pm

Styrian wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:After last night Lebron took the rebounding lead on Miami despite this being an underwhelming rebounding start by him. He now leads the Heat in scoring, rebounds and asssits for the 3rd season in a row. For a guy to lead a team in all of those categories is entirely uncommon, especially among contention level teams. For a guy to do it three years in a row is unprecedented. And he did it in the postseason in each of their 2 title runs too

When you break down the valuable aspect of "Most Valuable", how does anyone get more valuable to a team than being their leading scorer, leading rebounder, primary facilitator and best defensive player who is probably Miami's best option defensively at 4 positions?

Versality doesn't equal valuable. Cousins is leading Kings in scoring, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, that doesn't make him the most valuable player.

First off you're wrong. Cousins doesn't lead them in assists. In fact hes not even close, hes not even 2nd or 3rd

And the Kings are 4-8 and won't be anywhere near the playoffs, which makes that comparison a complete false equivalency and totally irrelevant, even if it were true (which its not). If it was the case though, Cousins would be on a very short list of guys who have done that even on bad teams

Post #628 » by **mopper8** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:15 pm

JulesWinnfield wrote:
Styrian wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:After last night Lebron took the rebounding lead on Miami despite this being an underwhelming rebounding start by him. He now leads the Heat in scoring, rebounds and asssits for the 3rd season in a row. For a guy to lead a team in all of those categories is entirely uncommon, especially among contention level teams. For a guy to do it three years in a row is unprecedented. And he did it in the postseason in each of their 2 title runs too

When you break down the valuable aspect of "Most Valuable", how does anyone get more valuable to a team than being their leading scorer, leading rebounder, primary facilitator and best defensive player who is probably Miami's best option defensively at 4 positions?

Versality doesn't equal valuable. Cousins is leading Kings in scoring, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, that doesn't make him the most valuable player.

First off you're wrong. Cousins doesn't lead them in assists. In fact hes not even close, hes not even 2nd or 3rd

And the Kings are 4-8 and won't be anywhere near the playoffs, which makes that comparison a complete false equivalency and totally irrelevant, even if it were true (which its not). If it was the case though, Cousins would be on a very short list of guys who have done that even on bad teams

I think he missed the importance of the highlighted text...

Woodsanity · Post #629 » by **Woodsanity** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:55 pm

G-Menn wrote:
Woodsanity wrote:Way too early to evaluate how good Paul George is. Assuming he keeps similar production to what he has had he is a top 5 player/borderline. I think he will end the season in the top 10 range. I don't see him being this efficient all season.

..wow top 5?

List your top 10 players.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using RealGM Forums mobile app

You don't think a guy who has a PER of 24 with elite wing defense has in the argument for top 5? I said assuming he has similar production to what he has right now which is highly unlikely.

Not going to even bother with a list this early in the season. The top 3 are Lebron, Durant, Paul as per usual. The rest are highly debatable.

There is also the problem of whether we can penalize guys like Love and Anthony Davis if their teams don't perform as well. Its not necessarily fair to do that but it seems to be the norm.

xMADEinDADEx · Post #630 » by **xMADEinDADEx** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:24 am

Lol durant 19 points on 3 made shots

Sent from my iPhone 5 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Apollo64 · Post #631 » by **Apollo64** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:39 am

big_ticket wrote:PG24 is one of the overpaid guys in the league,just benefiting on hibberts play

Wow, just wow.

Have you even watched a Pacers game this season? He is clearly the 2nd best SF in the league behind Durant.

B-easy · Post #632 » by **B-easy** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:53 am

Apollo64 wrote:
big_ticket wrote:PG24 is one of the overpaid guys in the league,just benefiting on hibberts play

Wow, just wow.

Have you even watched a Pacers game this season? He is clearly the 2nd best SF in the league behind Durant.

It's not clear, he has been playing great this season for 13 games. Carmelo Anthony is have a sort of down year by his standards. I think we should wait till around half the season before putting George above melo. I expect Melo to slowly be more efficient and George to score a little less as the season progresses.

Post #633 » by **mopper8** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:02 am

Apollo64 wrote:
big_ticket wrote:PG24 is one of the overpaid guys in the league,just benefiting on hibberts play

Wow, just wow.

Have you even watched a Pacers game this season? He is clearly the 2nd best SF in the league behind Durant.

Is this because you think Lebron is a power forward?

PeteW · Post #634 » by **PeteW** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:07 am

Apollo64 wrote:
big_ticket wrote:PG24 is one of the overpaid guys in the league,just benefiting on hibberts play

Wow, just wow.

Have you even watched a Pacers game this season? He is clearly the 2nd best SF in the league behind Durant.

Apollo64 · Post #635 » by **Apollo64** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:09 am

Lebron is playing most of his minutes as PF.

Post #636 » by **kingkirk** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:17 am

What is a PF in the modern game?

Lebron is still as much a perimeter player as most 3s going around. He may be playing more minutes at the 4, but he isn't exactly Blake Griffin out there.

He is still running the team from the top. He is a 4 as a product of small ball if one must define players by traditional positions to a modern offensive set.

xMADEinDADEx · Post #637 » by **xMADEinDADEx** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:12 am

Wtf.. Lebron plays the pf? Explain why Haslem or battier end up banging with PF in the post?

Sent from my iPhone 5 using RealGM Forums mobile app

xMADEinDADEx · Post #638 » by **xMADEinDADEx** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:15 am

B-easy wrote:
Apollo64 wrote:
big_ticket wrote:PG24 is one of the overpaid guys in the league,just benefiting on hibberts play

Wow, just wow.

Have you even watched a Pacers game this season? He is clearly the 2nd best SF in the league behind Durant.

It's not clear, he has been playing great this season for 13 games. Carmelo Anthony is have a sort of down year by his standards. I think we should wait till around half the season before putting George above melo. I expect Melo to slowly be more efficient and George to score a little less as the season progresses.

Bulls fans were doing the same thing in 2010.
Apparently d rose was better than cp3.
Wait till at least half the season passes before we start making our top 10 list.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using RealGM Forums mobile app

xStanton27 · Post #639 » by **xStanton27** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:00 pm

No excuses for the Heat, 60+ wins is a must for Lebron to get this award.

xBulletproof · Post #640 » by **xBulletproof** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:23 pm

Apollo64 wrote:
big_ticket wrote:PG24 is one of the overpaid guys in the league,just benefiting on hibberts play

Wow, just wow.

Have you even watched a Pacers game this season? He is clearly the 2nd best SF in the league behind Durant.

In general while I agree with you that Paul certainly isn't over paid (he's making 3 million this year -- lol). Lebron just plays where ever he is needed most, because no matter what position he's playing, he's still the best player in the world. I'm assuming you're getting that he's playing most of his minutes at the PF from 82games.com. Which works for most players, but with Lebron it's a train wreck trying to pigeon hole him into any position at a given time. I mean the guy runs the offense far more than the point guard does on that team, but he has 0 minutes at the PG position according to them. In the end he's still a SF.

I've actually lobbied 82games to explain to me exactly how they come up with positions that guys are playing. Is it who they defend? Who guards them? As we know, there are times Lebron guards the PG, and then is being guarded by a PF on the other end. So according to them, is that time spent at PF, or PG? They've responded to me a few times, but on that I get ignored every time. The other thing I've asked and been ignored is if say Lebron is guarding Paul George, and there's a pick and Battier ends up on George, and hits a shot, who's opponent counterpart does that shot effect? Lebron, or Battier? Been stone walled on that answer too.