ECSF: P1 | (1) Toronto Raptors vs Cleveland Cavaliers (4) | TIED 0-0

[dukes_wild]

So many hot takes before they have even tipped off Game 1.

Both sides have valid points, can we just wait and see how the games actually unfold?

[infinite11285]

Blind sheep? I don't think anyone here is saying they lost completely because of the refs but anyone who doesn't think the refs favor lebron at times is a moron or bias

In your opinion, how many games have the Raptors lost due to ref bias towards LeBron?

I don't sit back and keep track of those things because its pointless. I'm not here to debate it I just hate how Lebron fans will deny he gets special treat at times and then say other fans act like victims.


People are quick to say raptors fans have a complex but don't acknowledge that there are people here who go out of there way to be **** and troll those same fans. No wonder some one them go on the attack so easy.

I, for one, do believe LeBron receives some preferential treatment, but it's nothing overly egregious in comparison to other marquee players.

And can you blame anyone for believing Raps fans have a complex when there's already a ridiculous amount of complaining being done about refs already? It's honestly comical to make a big fuss about LeBron flopping when you have Kyle Lowry on your squad. The US v. Canada narrative that's pushed by some on your board is dumb as well, as if everyone is out to crap on the Raptors fanbase. Finally, the trolling goes both ways and Raps fans are far from innocent. This thread alone is proof of that.

It's just annoying that rather than discussing strategies, there's a lot of crying being done about the refs.

[Sisqo]

In your opinion, how many games have the Raptors lost due to ref bias towards LeBron?

I don't sit back and keep track of those things because its pointless. I'm not here to debate it I just hate how Lebron fans will deny he gets special treat at times and then say other fans act like victims.


People are quick to say raptors fans have a complex but don't acknowledge that there are people here who go out of there way to be **** and troll those same fans. No wonder some one them go on the attack so easy.

I, for one, do believe LeBron receives some preferential treatment, but it's nothing overly egregious in comparison to other marquee players.

And can you blame anyone for believing Raps fans have a complex when there's already a ridiculous amount of complaining being done about refs already? It's honestly comical to make a big fuss about LeBron flopping when you have Kyle Lowry on your squad. The US v. Canada narrative that's pushed by some on your board is dumb as well, as if everyone is out to crap on the Raptors fanbase. Finally, the trolling goes both ways and Raps fans are far from innocent. This thread alone is proof of that.

It's just annoying that rather than discussing strategies, there's a lot of crying being done about the refs.

I find it hilarious you say the amount done on the raptors board. EVERY team's fan does this, it looks like raptors fans do it more because there is way more of us here. If you think we are actually any worse than you don't read the other posts and maybe you should.

As for the US v. Canada narrative.. Saying its dumb is also off base because its 100% true. Watch ESPN and look at the trash they talk because its Canada and they flat out admit it. They complain about the weather and than go to NY where its the same and sometimes worse. You have idiot Dj's playing "Born in the USA" against us like its some sort of jab but most of the team is from America. You have fans chanting U.S.A for the same moronic reasons.

That narrative came from the U.S not the raptors board.

[infinite11285]

Watch ESPN and look at the trash they talk because its Canada and they flat out admit it.

Link? I find it hard to believe a worldwide network would trash Canada "just because".

They complain about the weather and than go to NY where its the same and sometimes worse. You have idiot Dj's playing "Born in the USA" against us like its some sort of jab but most of the team is from America. You have fans chanting U.S.A for the same moronic reasons.

Logically, yes that's all dumb, but teams do all kinds of childish things to get fans behind the home team. It really shouldn't upset you so much. I promise you there is no grand anti-canada agenda being worked.

[nbafan38]

Tough series to call, Toronto is better and should win but it's so hard to pick against Lebron in an east playoff series, either way I think this goes 7.

[Sisqo]

Watch ESPN and look at the trash they talk because its Canada and they flat out admit it.

Link? I find it hard to believe a worldwide network would trash Canada "just because".

They complain about the weather and than go to NY where its the same and sometimes worse. You have idiot Dj's playing "Born in the USA" against us like its some sort of jab but most of the team is from America. You have fans chanting U.S.A for the same moronic reasons.

Logically, yes that's all dumb, but teams do all kinds of childish things to get fans behind the home team. It really shouldn't upset you so much. I promise you there is no grand anti-canada agenda being worked.

You find that hard to believe with the crap ESPN puts out? I'll see if i can dig it up.


Oh trust me it doesn't upset me even the slightest but I also don't pretend it doesn't exist just because its childish.

[jonjames]

I see many are underpinning the pyramidal theory in their “Raptors over Cavaliers” predictions—that is, assuming that just because the Cavaliers struggled against a lower-rung team in the Pacers that they’ll lose against the Raptors—but it isn’t that simple; it boils down more so to how well the Raptors can actualize their potential, which they don’t have a stellar track record of doing.

The same pyramidal theory was used last year in light of the Cavaliers-Pacers series (Pacers were much more competitive than rememberable), and we remember the upshot of it: the Raptors didn’t even whiff a win as the Pacers did in every game of the prior series. Yes, the Cavaliers first-round scares should be alarming for them, but it doesn’t at all mean the series will be a cinch for the Raptors just because they’re higher-tiered on paper.

Do I feel that the Raptors will get (gentleman-)swept for the third-consecutive year? Not at all; the Cavaliers have clearly regressed, whereas the Raptors, divergently, have improved. But after watching the Wizards series, I’m not ready to conclude that they’ll have moved the needle meteorically enough from getting (gentleman-)swept by the Cavaliers the previous-two years to vanquishing their eliminators in a similar fashion this year—as some seem to be predicting, here.

I think the Raptors will play up to their near-60-win caliber for most of their home games; but if they don’t do so for all of them, the Cavaliers will smell blood—and predate them, accordingly. I have yet to see a Cavaliers-Raptors playoffs game wherein it was still competitive by the second half; and while they obviously shouldn’t be susceptible to the same mountainous margin of loss this year, I’d still find them to be in dire straits if they were tasked to winning any “must-win” game in The Q.

Superstar match-ups will obviously be important—not just whether or not the Trash Bros show up but also how they defend LeBron. They shouldn’t double-team LeBron as they’ve done in previous series; they can endure his scoring bouts (he’s not inexhaustible), but they shouldn’t accentuate his greatest strength in playmaking; otherwise, he’ll find ample help to win this series.

Bottom-line prediction: Cavaliers in 6.

This whole post is wrong because it's blindly biased by past results. Look at Spurs/Lakers '03. Enough said. Lakers OWNED the Spurs the past two years in '01 and '02 and then they got their butts kicked when they rematched for the third straight year. Same thing will happen here. The biggest reason for the Lakers losing in '03 was because of their huge decline from '02 especially defensively. Cavs D was ranked 2nd to last in the NBA this year. RUH ROH

Bottom line: Raptors in 5.

[RaptorsLife]

Past is past. Even the regular season records this season are past

Can't judge who wins based on nothing but the results of the series

[OriginalRed]

If Ibaka can produce anywhere near as consistently as Horford does on offence, the Raptors can easily win this series in 5. Unfortunately, he probably won't so I'm predicting it'll go 6 as Lebron himself can win at least a game or two by himself and the Cavs will most likely shoot lights out against the Raptors a couple of games. Saying it'll go 7 might not even be a stretch and if it does, I'm picking Lebron as we all know what he can do in an elimination game.

[DowJones]

Raptors fans need to stop with the victim complex and the constant complaining. Don't make preconceived excuses for potentially losing before the games even start.

The Cavs' Net Rating against the Raptors these past 2 postseasons was...wait for it...

+16.7

The Raptors were outscored by almost 17 points per 100 possessions across 10 games... That's unbelievably bad. For comparison, the Rockets posted a +8.6 Net Rating this season while the Suns posted a -9.3. The net differential between the best team and the worst team this year was +17.9, which isn't too far off from how much the Raptors lost by. And Raps fans were STILL convinced that the only reason they were losing was "the refs!!" and "the NBA's agenda against Toronto!!"

Your team has homecourt advantage. You're well rested while the Cavs just finished a 7 game bloodbath against the Pacers. This team is utter garbage outside of LeBron and as a whole shouldn't be going anywhere. Your team is complete and healthy. Hill and Love are battling injuries. And Raptors fans have been talking trash and flooding the General Board with how this Raptors team is different and how FVV is the GOAT and the Raptors have the best bench ever and "look at our SRS" and much more...It's put up or shut up time. If the Raptors can't beat THIS Cavs team there's no recovery.

It's true. And if we do beat you, which I think we will, it's the end of the run for your franchise. LeBron be gone, and you guys go back to the lottery with a maxed out payroll.

To be honest, whether or not we lose this series really doesn't change anything. Cavs fans, the franchise, and even LeBron all know this team is at the end of its run. Even if we win this series, it changes nothing. The franchise went all in on contending in the short term by maxing out the payroll and relying on older players. The city got a title. The team made 3 straight Finals. That's more than most fanbases can say at the least. We already know this team isn't going anywhere with Love as a second option, Lue as a coach, and castoffs from other teams as the bench; it doesn't matter whether we flame out now or lose in the Finals. This team flat out sucks and there are no title expectations here.

Also if/when LeBron leaves we'll believe it or not be slightly under the cap limit next season (still not ideal) and then $30 million under the next year, with a lottery pick coming in this year, so it's not as bad of a situation as it was in 2010 at least. I actually somewhat trust Altman so if he's making the decisions I think he'll do his best to put us in a good position for the long term, but if it's Gilbert meddling around in everything, we're absolutely screwed. Houston, Golden State, Philly, and Boston look to be the top dogs of the league the next few years, so I think laying down and collecting lottery picks is the best solution at the moment.

Stop it. Cleveland has faults but to say they “flat out suck” is ridiculous. They are still a 50-win team that is in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

[MalonesElbows]

Picked Raptors in 7. OG is just a rookie but a big athletic body they can throw at Lebron.

[RaptorHooter]

It's true. And if we do beat you, which I think we will, it's the end of the run for your franchise. LeBron be gone, and you guys go back to the lottery with a maxed out payroll.

To be honest, whether or not we lose this series really doesn't change anything. Cavs fans, the franchise, and even LeBron all know this team is at the end of its run. Even if we win this series, it changes nothing. The franchise went all in on contending in the short term by maxing out the payroll and relying on older players. The city got a title. The team made 3 straight Finals. That's more than most fanbases can say at the least. We already know this team isn't going anywhere with Love as a second option, Lue as a coach, and castoffs from other teams as the bench; it doesn't matter whether we flame out now or lose in the Finals. This team flat out sucks and there are no title expectations here.

Also if/when LeBron leaves we'll believe it or not be slightly under the cap limit next season (still not ideal) and then $30 million under the next year, with a lottery pick coming in this year, so it's not as bad of a situation as it was in 2010 at least. I actually somewhat trust Altman so if he's making the decisions I think he'll do his best to put us in a good position for the long term, but if it's Gilbert meddling around in everything, we're absolutely screwed. Houston, Golden State, Philly, and Boston look to be the top dogs of the league the next few years, so I think laying down and collecting lottery picks is the best solution at the moment.

Stop it. Cleveland has faults but to say they “flat out suck” is ridiculous. They are still a 50-win team that is in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Cavs are pretty bad and Raps smoked them by 34 in their only visit to TO. That was the team who had just won 18/19 which made 50 wins possible. No doubt LBJ will get his, but this is a different Raptors team, Coach just needs to press the right buttons and the LeBron era is over.

[Splashin]

Always been a Rap doubter but this cavs team is very bad. This really is Toronto's time to advance.

[bluerap23]

Cleveland in 6. Obviously Toronto has clearly outperformed the Cavaliers this year, but they still haven't won me completely over. I wouldn't be surprised if they won the series at all but all it takes are some inconsistencies of DeRozan and Lowry – which wouldn't be news – and some solid shooting nights from the Cavaliers' role players (they have been terrible but some guys might very well start shooting better). Assuming that, I'm not betting against LeBron to carry his team another time.

Did you see how the raptors handled Washington when Fred VanVleet played?
Cleveland just squeaked past Indiana. Clevland has the best player by far, but Toronto has the next best 4. Toronto is a superior team. Not even close.

[RaptorsLife]

Last 2 years it was happy to be here.

This year it's time to **** win no excuses. Everything is on our favour. Just gotta do it. Can't wait for tonight

[K For Three]

We'll see what happens, I could be wrong but I posted in the C's forum yesterday that I had Cavs/Celtics again in the ECFs like last year.

Good luck everyone!

[samfisher83]

Currently 67% of the the people thing raptors will win. If Lebron wins I hope the cakewalk to finals talk ends.

[jonjames]

We'll see what happens, I could be wrong but I posted in the C's forum yesterday that I had Cavs/Celtics again in the ECFs like last year.

Good luck everyone!

Both of those teams will lose in the semis. It'll be Toronto/Philly, battle of the Colangelo teams. Toronto will get a chance for redemption against Philly after losing in 7 back in 2001. They lost game 7 by 1 point I believe.

[vesku888]

Please Serge Ibaka, you've had 3 full days rest.

This guy is the X-factor, problem is he's so damn old.

[lebron stopper]

Currently 67% of the the people thing raptors will win. If Lebron wins I hope the cakewalk to finals talk ends.

If LeBron James makes the Finals this year with *this* team he's the GOAT in my book.

No other player I can think of would make the playoffs with that roster, not even in the Eastern Conference. Except maybe Stephen Curry or Kawhi Leonard. Maybe.