Woj: Some Players getting cold feet about playing in Orlando

[TheNewEra]

Ok...where are you going to take it to?

The NFL, college basketball, NHL, etc. I haven't seen players in any of those sports show the level of contempt for fans that NBA players have over the past few years.

I don’t see how the league can survive with this type of resentment for the people who essentially pay their salaries. It’s bizarre.

Like the NFL and many other sports fans that simply don’t care about these players as human beings. These players are majority black men before anything else and they have the right to raise awareness and be conscious of issues that impact them and their families. Just because RealGM wants them to shut up and dribble doesn’t mean they should

[G R E Y]

Some good arguments here:

Read on Twitter

Guarantee most of the players opposing the restart either don't realise the financial aspect or don't care because their finances are set. Silver needs to send these guys the spreadsheets because they will be losing serious money next season. Having a playoff helps mitigate the losses considerably

It's either that or they are more informed than ever and now push back after being overlooked.

NBA has financial planning programs in place, so whether or not players heed the info is up to them.

And it's the NBPA's duty to make sure all players are well informed. Sounds like there wasn't space allotted for a full discussion.

This is an unprecedented time and the league is having to find answers for issues as they arise. But I think that the vast majority understand the financial implications. That applies to team staff as well. Each has to count the cost / risk.

[BladeDaywalker]

People keep talking about restarting the season but no one has actually addressed the issue of what to do if a player test positive while the season is going on.

If Dwight Howard for the Lakers or Lou Williams for the Clippers test positive, what exactly would be the protocol in place in a playoff game?

Are the Lakers and Clippers just going to play without a key player for an entire series?

Is the NBA going to stop and delay the games between the two teams until everyone is tested and cleared to play?

Do they wait until Howard and Lou are cleared to play again?

We are already seeing college football players at Alabama and Houston testing positive and camps having to be delayed in order to deal with the problem.

How exactly do you get through an entire playoffs if things don't go as planned?

[thebigbird]

Ok...where are you going to take it to?

The NFL, college basketball, NHL, etc. I haven't seen players in any of those sports show the level of contempt for fans that NBA players have over the past few years.

I don’t see how the league can survive with this type of resentment for the people who essentially pay their salaries. It’s bizarre.

It's truly strange. Like, Lou Williams is mad because fans want the NBA to come back? What business gets mad because consumers want to consume their product? It's very odd.

[thebigbird]

The NFL, college basketball, NHL, etc. I haven't seen players in any of those sports show the level of contempt for fans that NBA players have over the past few years.

I don’t see how the league can survive with this type of resentment for the people who essentially pay their salaries. It’s bizarre.

Like the NFL and many other sports fans that simply don’t care about these players as human beings. These players are majority black men before anything else and they have the right to raise awareness and be conscious of issues that impact them and their families. Just because RealGM wants them to shut up and dribble doesn’t mean they should

Who in this thread wants them to just shut up and dribble? The NBA resuming provides them a perfect opportunity to get out their message. It will allow them to raise awareness. I have no idea why this is being presented as a zero sum scenario where if the NBA resumes then they have to stop raising awareness.

[Duke4life831]

The NFL, college basketball, NHL, etc. I haven't seen players in any of those sports show the level of contempt for fans that NBA players have over the past few years.

I don’t see how the league can survive with this type of resentment for the people who essentially pay their salaries. It’s bizarre.

Like the NFL and many other sports fans that simply don’t care about these players as human beings. These players are majority black men before anything else and they have the right to raise awareness and be conscious of issues that impact them and their families. Just because RealGM wants them to shut up and dribble doesn’t mean they should

Is there no more middle grounds and grey areas today?

Ill be honest, I dont care about what any players says. I do follow them just for entertainment. This goes for all people in entertainment. This has nothing to do with political stances either, I dont care if the person is left or right, I dont pay attention to them. I watch their sports/movies or listen to their music and that's it. I dont pay attention to what they say outside of their job. I dont have any social media and therefore dont follow them. Not because I think they're less than a normal person, but because their opinion means as much to me as any random stranger I bump into.

With that said, like Ive stated on this thread multiple times. If they dont want to play because of Corona, totally understand. If they dont want to play because they feel like social/political activism is more important at this moment, go for it I understand. But getting angry at fans for looking at you as entertainers is dumb, that is literally your job.

Just think so many arguments now a days people act like there are only 2 extreme sides. No more middle ground in anything. You either fully support everything every player says or you're an idiot that says shut up and dribble. No there tends to be nuance and middle grounds in most discussions.

[boomershadow]

Is it weird that the guy leading the charge for not showing up is also one of the players that won't lose money for not showing up?

[trickshot]

People keep talking about restarting the season but no one has actually addressed the issue of what to do if a player test positive while the season is going on.

If Dwight Howard for the Lakers or Lou Williams for the Clippers test positive, what exactly would be the protocol in place in a playoff game?

Are the Lakers and Clippers just going to play without a key player for an entire series?

Is the NBA going to stop and delay the games between the two teams until everyone is tested and cleared to play?

Do they wait until Howard and Lou are cleared to play again?

We are already seeing college football players at Alabama and Houston testing positive and camps having to be delayed in order to deal with the problem.

How exactly do you get through an entire playoffs if things don't go as planned?

Any league that restarts already knows it's likely players will get infected. You're not keeping 500 guys virus free till there's a vaccine. It's just not happening with or without the season restarting. The show will go on. Maybe a mass infection on a team will shut it down not one or two isolated incidents. That's how the world will be this season and next and the sporting leagues knows they have to try to coexist or pack up

German league restarted and included protocols for if/when a player gets infected

[levon]

Is there no more middle grounds and grey areas today?

Ill be honest, I dont care about what any players says. I do follow them just for entertainment. This goes for all people in entertainment. This has nothing to do with political stances either, I dont care if the person is left or right, I dont pay attention to them. I watch their sports/movies or listen to their music and that's it. I dont pay attention to what they say outside of their job. I dont have any social media and therefore dont follow them. Not because I think they're less than a normal person, but because their opinion means as much to me as any random stranger I bump into.

With that said, like Ive stated on this thread multiple times. If they dont want to play because of Corona, totally understand. If they dont want to play because they feel like social/political activism is more important at this moment, go for it I understand. But getting angry at fans for looking at you as entertainers is dumb, that is literally your job.

Just think so many arguments now a days people act like there are only 2 extreme sides. No more middle ground in anything. You either fully support everything every player says or you're an idiot that says shut up and dribble. No there tends to be nuance and middle grounds in most discussions.

I think, ironically, you might be missing the middle ground here. NBA players aren't "mad" that they're viewed as entertainers. They're advocating for a world where you don't view them as just entertainers but people who can use their platforms to create change. Everybody who accumulates a certain amount of wealth and a certain following automatically becomes amplified, no matter what their original hustle was. NBA players shouldn't be the exception.

Sports and athletes have historically been catalysts for social change. Sports have united and divided nations. It's your prerogative to try to filter that part out and focus on what happens between the lines, and it's theirs to use their voice, as you said.

But I think this is the subtlety people are missing: by talking about fans this way, they're not expressing disdain or contempt towards fans. It's such a privileged position to sit there and think Lou Williams has it out for you. On the contrary: putting your image at risk among the people who generate revenue for you to express what you believe is an act of compassion, not of contempt. This is why it bothers us when people we love disagree with our viewpoints, and why we try to talk it out. You care more about the other person than maintaining some rosy perception of you.

I'm not suggesting Lou Will loves us all. All I'm saying is players are trying to work out the world they want. Evidently they don't all agree, because they're all different human beings. To suggest that they're "mad" is already putting yourself on the defensive, and is again coming from a place of privilege. I promise you that you and an NBA player are not truly at odds.

[dohboy_24]

Read on Twitter

Have the majority of them not already been tested? If not, what is the benefit beyond testing all of them just prior to the re-start of games?

What is the logic behind testing them continually and what is the proposed testing protocol (before/after games? daily? weekly?) for doing so?

[TheNewEra]

I don’t see how the league can survive with this type of resentment for the people who essentially pay their salaries. It’s bizarre.

Like the NFL and many other sports fans that simply don’t care about these players as human beings. These players are majority black men before anything else and they have the right to raise awareness and be conscious of issues that impact them and their families. Just because RealGM wants them to shut up and dribble doesn’t mean they should

Who in this thread wants them to just shut up and dribble? The NBA resuming provides them a perfect opportunity to get out their message. It will allow them to raise awareness. I have no idea why this is being presented as a zero sum scenario where if the NBA resumes then they have to stop raising awareness.

People are blasting any player that’s hesitant to return because they want their comfort back.

You don’t have an idea because you won’t acknowledge that the sports leagues will be a distraction and the players just want to make sure it’s not a absolute end to the movement. Players have tried to use their platform before and were told “use their own time and shut up and play”. The players don’t want the message stepped up because people are still being killed by police as of yesterday for unfair reasons

A platform can only do so much when people can simply turn it off

[trickshot]

Read on Twitter

Have the majority of them not already been tested? If not, what is the benefit beyond testing all of them just prior to the re-start of games?

What is the logic behind testing them continually and what is the proposed testing protocol (before/after games? daily? weekly?) for doing so?

The tweet is saying there's an acceptance that a player or two will get infected and the question being tabled instead is what the protocols to deal with should be

As for protocol the bubble testing hasn't commenced. They will conduct a round of mass tests before players enter. The positive ones will be quarantined and won't be brought in

[TheNewEra]

I don’t see how the league can survive with this type of resentment for the people who essentially pay their salaries. It’s bizarre.

Like the NFL and many other sports fans that simply don’t care about these players as human beings. These players are majority black men before anything else and they have the right to raise awareness and be conscious of issues that impact them and their families. Just because RealGM wants them to shut up and dribble doesn’t mean they should

Is there no more middle grounds and grey areas today?

Ill be honest, I dont care about what any players says. I do follow them just for entertainment. This goes for all people in entertainment. This has nothing to do with political stances either, I dont care if the person is left or right, I dont pay attention to them. I watch their sports/movies or listen to their music and that's it. I dont pay attention to what they say outside of their job. I dont have any social media and therefore dont follow them. Not because I think they're less than a normal person, but because their opinion means as much to me as any random stranger I bump into.

With that said, like Ive stated on this thread multiple times. If they dont want to play because of Corona, totally understand. If they dont want to play because they feel like social/political activism is more important at this moment, go for it I understand. But getting angry at fans for looking at you as entertainers is dumb, that is literally your job.

Just think so many arguments now a days people act like there are only 2 extreme sides. No more middle ground in anything. You either fully support everything every player says or you're an idiot that says shut up and dribble. No there tends to be nuance and middle grounds in most discussions.

There is a middle ground and even Kyrie mentioned a middle ground. They just want to be careful with the situation because as a people this has been a historical moment that the entire world has taken notice to the injustice of people that look like them.

They don’t want the Kaepernick situation to happen to this movement when their entertainment gives people an escape from the chaos of reality. People are still being beaten or killed and we don’t want America or the world to lose focus and be comfortable

[levon]

People are blasting any player that’s hesitant to return because they want their comfort back.

You don’t have an idea because you won’t acknowledge that the sports leagues will be a distraction and the players just want to make sure it’s not a absolute end to the movement. Players have tried to use their platform before and were told “use their own time and shut up and play”. The players don’t want the message stepped up because people are still being killed by police as of yesterday for unfair reasons

A platform can only do so much when people can simply turn it off

More wrinkles to the "play basketball to create change" argument: how much media is even going to be allowed in this thing? How is it going to be any different from players going live from their living rooms, except the fact that they'll be cooped up working on their basketball regimen instead? Who is going to prioritize the storytelling? Are players going to scream BLM after making a shot? It's inevitably going to devolve into some half-hearted corporate charade. There isn't any real change unless the money gets involved, which is why I understand the "divest from play" argument. I also understand the "play so that we don't get bent over by the league next CBA" argument too. Maybe players will go to Orlando and donate the salary they work there to a cause? I don't know, and it's not even my place to speculate.

[BladeDaywalker]

People keep talking about restarting the season but no one has actually addressed the issue of what to do if a player test positive while the season is going on.

If Dwight Howard for the Lakers or Lou Williams for the Clippers test positive, what exactly would be the protocol in place in a playoff game?

Are the Lakers and Clippers just going to play without a key player for an entire series?

Is the NBA going to stop and delay the games between the two teams until everyone is tested and cleared to play?

Do they wait until Howard and Lou are cleared to play again?

We are already seeing college football players at Alabama and Houston testing positive and camps having to be delayed in order to deal with the problem.

How exactly do you get through an entire playoffs if things don't go as planned?

Any league that restarts already knows it's likely players will get infected. You're not keeping 500 guys virus free till there's a vaccine. It's just not happening with or without the season restarting. The show will go on. Maybe a mass infection on a team will shut it down not one or two isolated incidents. That's how the world will be this season and next and the sporting leagues knows they have to try to coexist or pack up

German league restarted and included protocols for if/when a player gets infected

But, that is exactly my point.

The NBA hasn't said anything on what it will do if a player test positive and has to be quarantined from the rest of the team.

If a key player for a team tested positive, what exactly will the team do without him for an entire series?

Are they able to replace him with another player of the same caliber or do they just try to win with a worse replacement player that is on the roster?

It is one thing if a player got injured and had to be replaced. Everyone accept that and understand the risk.

It is another thing if you lose a key player as a result of a pandemic and have to replace him especially when the league itself know that an infection could happen.

[Duke4life831]

Is there no more middle grounds and grey areas today?

Ill be honest, I dont care about what any players says. I do follow them just for entertainment. This goes for all people in entertainment. This has nothing to do with political stances either, I dont care if the person is left or right, I dont pay attention to them. I watch their sports/movies or listen to their music and that's it. I dont pay attention to what they say outside of their job. I dont have any social media and therefore dont follow them. Not because I think they're less than a normal person, but because their opinion means as much to me as any random stranger I bump into.

With that said, like Ive stated on this thread multiple times. If they dont want to play because of Corona, totally understand. If they dont want to play because they feel like social/political activism is more important at this moment, go for it I understand. But getting angry at fans for looking at you as entertainers is dumb, that is literally your job.

Just think so many arguments now a days people act like there are only 2 extreme sides. No more middle ground in anything. You either fully support everything every player says or you're an idiot that says shut up and dribble. No there tends to be nuance and middle grounds in most discussions.

I think, ironically, you might be missing the middle ground here. NBA players aren't "mad" that they're viewed as entertainers. They're advocating for a world where you don't view them as just entertainers but people who can use their platforms to create change. Everybody who accumulates a certain amount of wealth and a certain following automatically becomes amplified, no matter what their original hustle was. NBA players shouldn't be the exception.

Sports and athletes have historically been catalysts for social change. Sports have united and divided nations. It's your prerogative to try to filter that part out and focus on what happens between the lines, and it's theirs to use their voice, as you said.

But I think this is the subtlety people are missing: by talking about fans this way, they're not expressing disdain or contempt towards fans. It's such a privileged position to sit there and think Lou Williams has it out for you. On the contrary: putting your image at risk among the people who generate revenue for you to express what you believe is an act of compassion, not of contempt. This is why it bothers us when people we love disagree with our viewpoints, and why we try to talk it out. You care more about the other person than maintaining some rosy perception of you.

I'm not suggesting Lou Will loves us all. All I'm saying is players are trying to work out the world they want. Evidently they don't all agree, because they're all different human beings. To suggest that they're "mad" is already putting yourself on the defensive, and is again coming from a place of privilege. I promise you that you and an NBA player are not truly at odds.

Thats my point though. Just because I dont care what they have to say, isn't me saying therefore you should "shut up and dribble". I personally just dont care. But Im also not one sitting here saying they shouldn't voice these things. If they want too, go right ahead. Just because I dont care about their views on crap doesnt mean others dont, so go do all the stuff you want, I just dont personally care. Again we are stuck in this crappy place now a days of, you're either completely with us or you're against us mindset.

My point overall is, you're an entertainer, that is literally your job. Dont get angry that a good chunk of people view you just as an entertainer and dont care what your personal views on things are. Also not everyone in that group that doesnt care, aren't the idiot Laura Ingrahams telling you to shut up and dribble either. There is a good chunk of people, that enjoy the entertainment you put on, then once that is over check out and go back to their lives. You want to go do all this activism? Cool man I am 100% for anyone doing sticking up for what they believe in, no matter their occupation or lack of occupation. Doesnt mean Im going to sit around and listen to it though, but that also doesn't mean since Im not going to sit around and listen to it, that I want it shut down. There is a middle ground.

[zimpy27]

Chopping off your nose to spite your face is the expression here.

This could lose the players hundreds of millions of dollars, money they could use strategically to keep pressure on social reform.

People need to use the money they make and the platform they have to keep the fire going for years, social reform isn't about chucking everything in the fire at once and making the biggest possible flame, you want to keep the flame going and keep the pressure on changes to happen. It takes time and intelligent thinking.

[Johnny Bball]

When should we resume? We probably wont have widespread vaccines until atleast the end of the 2020-21 season (traditional schedule). How many seasons are you ok with losing, how many seasons do you think great players are ok with losing?

End of the calendar year for a vaccine like everyone is guessing would seem right. Or find a way to lockdown support staff like pretty much everyone thought they would.

What do you mean like everyone is guessing? The estimates by experts at end of April was 12-18 months as the goal. The more advanced vaccine trials are in stage 2 still, and only a few have betted on themselves to actually start production on their vaccine. I am optimistic and really hoping these vaccines see the light, but it would be an incredible turnaround if they did as vaccines usually take several years.

Would you like to lay money on it?

There’s already multiple vaccines. It’s only the trials that are pending. And at least one of those that’s Canadian will be done by end of calendar year. In less ethical places with less restrictions, the trials are going to take as long.

And they are ready shortened the testing from the ethical standpoint oretty much everywhere from several years, in light of the need. They used the sars vaccine work that never finished to get ahead.

[levon]

Is there no more middle grounds and grey areas today?

Ill be honest, I dont care about what any players says. I do follow them just for entertainment. This goes for all people in entertainment. This has nothing to do with political stances either, I dont care if the person is left or right, I dont pay attention to them. I watch their sports/movies or listen to their music and that's it. I dont pay attention to what they say outside of their job. I dont have any social media and therefore dont follow them. Not because I think they're less than a normal person, but because their opinion means as much to me as any random stranger I bump into.

With that said, like Ive stated on this thread multiple times. If they dont want to play because of Corona, totally understand. If they dont want to play because they feel like social/political activism is more important at this moment, go for it I understand. But getting angry at fans for looking at you as entertainers is dumb, that is literally your job.

Just think so many arguments now a days people act like there are only 2 extreme sides. No more middle ground in anything. You either fully support everything every player says or you're an idiot that says shut up and dribble. No there tends to be nuance and middle grounds in most discussions.

I think, ironically, you might be missing the middle ground here. NBA players aren't "mad" that they're viewed as entertainers. They're advocating for a world where you don't view them as just entertainers but people who can use their platforms to create change. Everybody who accumulates a certain amount of wealth and a certain following automatically becomes amplified, no matter what their original hustle was. NBA players shouldn't be the exception.

Sports and athletes have historically been catalysts for social change. Sports have united and divided nations. It's your prerogative to try to filter that part out and focus on what happens between the lines, and it's theirs to use their voice, as you said.

But I think this is the subtlety people are missing: by talking about fans this way, they're not expressing disdain or contempt towards fans. It's such a privileged position to sit there and think Lou Williams has it out for you. On the contrary: putting your image at risk among the people who generate revenue for you to express what you believe is an act of compassion, not of contempt. This is why it bothers us when people we love disagree with our viewpoints, and why we try to talk it out. You care more about the other person than maintaining some rosy perception of you.

I'm not suggesting Lou Will loves us all. All I'm saying is players are trying to work out the world they want. Evidently they don't all agree, because they're all different human beings. To suggest that they're "mad" is already putting yourself on the defensive, and is again coming from a place of privilege. I promise you that you and an NBA player are not truly at odds.

Thats my point though. Just because I dont care what they have to say, isn't me saying therefore you should "shut up and dribble". I personally just dont care. But Im also not one sitting here saying they shouldn't voice these things. If they want too, go right ahead. Just because I dont care about their views on crap doesnt mean others dont, so go do all the stuff you want, I just dont personally care. Again we are stuck in this crappy place now a days of, you're either completely with us or you're against us mindset.

My point overall is, you're an entertainer, that is literally your job. Dont get angry that a good chunk of people view you just as an entertainer and dont care what your personal views on things are. Also not everyone in that group that doesnt care, aren't the idiot Laura Ingrahams telling you to shut up and dribble either. There is a good chunk of people, that enjoy the entertainment you put on, then once that is over check out and go back to their lives. You want to go do all this activism? Cool man I am 100% for anyone doing sticking up for what they believe in, no matter their occupation or lack of occupation. Doesnt mean Im going to sit around and listen to though, but that also doesn't mean since Im not going to sit around and listen to it, that I want it shut down. There is a middle ground.

Sure, and I get that, and I get why you're on the defensive: because you think you're among the middle-ground people. I still think you missed the crux of my message because you're still framing players as mad, when I really don't think that's the case:

But I think this is the subtlety people are missing: by talking about fans this way, they're not expressing disdain or contempt towards fans. It's such a privileged position to sit there and think Lou Williams has it out for you. On the contrary: putting your image at risk among the people who generate revenue for you to express what you believe is an act of compassion, not of contempt.

[trickshot]

People keep talking about restarting the season but no one has actually addressed the issue of what to do if a player test positive while the season is going on.

If Dwight Howard for the Lakers or Lou Williams for the Clippers test positive, what exactly would be the protocol in place in a playoff game?

Are the Lakers and Clippers just going to play without a key player for an entire series?

Is the NBA going to stop and delay the games between the two teams until everyone is tested and cleared to play?

Do they wait until Howard and Lou are cleared to play again?

We are already seeing college football players at Alabama and Houston testing positive and camps having to be delayed in order to deal with the problem.

How exactly do you get through an entire playoffs if things don't go as planned?

Any league that restarts already knows it's likely players will get infected. You're not keeping 500 guys virus free till there's a vaccine. It's just not happening with or without the season restarting. The show will go on. Maybe a mass infection on a team will shut it down not one or two isolated incidents. That's how the world will be this season and next and the sporting leagues knows they have to try to coexist or pack up

German league restarted and included protocols for if/when a player gets infected

But, that is exactly my point.

The NBA hasn't said anything on what it will do if a player test positive and has to be quarantined from the rest of the team.

If a key player for a team tested positive, what exactly will the team do without him for an entire series?

Are they able to replace him with another player of the same caliber or do they just try to win with a worse replacement player that is on the roster?

It is one thing if a player got injured and had to be replaced. Everyone accept that and understand the risk.

It is another thing if you lose a key player as a result of a pandemic and have to replace him especially when the league itself know that an infection could happen.

Think they'll play on. That scenario would be unfortunate but the risk can't be eliminated. Can't imagine they havent accounted for the possibility. All they can do is hope it's not a star and the person didn't infect half the team. Even prior to restarting the NBA already knows some of its players will be covid positive, especially with them attending protests