2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 4)

[LoveMyRaps]

Franz is 2.5.

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Why are you always posting nonsense and false information to hype up your guy ? I don't get it... It's pretty weird.

The final score on the Raptor score is the War, and Franz is at 2.5. If you want to exclude that info to try and make your guy look better, that's fine.

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The discussion was never about my guy. Never brought him up once. You're calling out Yoyoboy for posting the wrong RAPTOR value, when he was right all along. Yoyoboy listed the total RAPTOR for every rookie - Franz is sitting at 1.3 but you decided to use the WAR value instead. Whatever helps you sleep at night man.

You're insecurity reeks.

[basketballRob]

Why are you always posting nonsense and false information to hype up your guy ? I don't get it... It's pretty weird.

The final score on the Raptor score is the War, and Franz is at 2.5. If you want to exclude that info to try and make your guy look better, that's fine.

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The discussion was never about my guy. Never brought him up once. You're calling out Yoyoboy for posting the wrong RAPTOR value, when he was right all along. Yoyoboy listed the total RAPTOR for every rookie - Franz is sitting at 1.3 but you decided to use the WAR value instead. Whatever helps you sleep at night man.

You're insecurity reeks.

The War is the final Raptor score and Mobley is at 2.0 which would've been 3rd and he opted not to use that. The War is the final total on the Raptor, I didn't just decide to use it.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-our-raptor-metric-works/

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[SOUL]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/orlando-magic-franz-wagner-onlyfranz-evan-mobley-scottie-barnes-nba/

Good read as to why Franz should win ROY.

roy with the worst record

keep dreaming

What? ROY has never been a record based award. Now, if the advanced stats showed one player was way more helpful to winning than the other player and they had similar stats, of course, but if one rookie is above the pack or just has that good of a resume, their record doesn't matter. I don't think Franz will win because there is equal competition, not because of records.

[JonFromVA]

The final score on the Raptor score is the War, and Franz is at 2.5. If you want to exclude that info to try and make your guy look better, that's fine.

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The discussion was never about my guy. Never brought him up once. You're calling out Yoyoboy for posting the wrong RAPTOR value, when he was right all along. Yoyoboy listed the total RAPTOR for every rookie - Franz is sitting at 1.3 but you decided to use the WAR value instead. Whatever helps you sleep at night man.

You're insecurity reeks.

The War is the final Raptor score and Mobley is at 2.0 which would've been 3rd and he opted not to use that. The War is the final total on the Raptor, I didn't just decide to use it.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-our-raptor-metric-works/

I do believe they're the same thing, except WAR takes minutes played in to account.

If you want to accuse him of cherry picking stats, you need more evidence. If you want to question why he picked one over the other, well, that would have been politer.

When 99.9% of the board can't even begin tell you why one player even rated higher in one of these stats than the other, it's honestly nothing more than a curiosity.

[SOUL]

Dude who the **** cares. Every time I go to this thread you're arguing some small little thing Rob. You're creating strawman arguments for stats as well. "If Franz had better teammates his stats would be better too" is not actually true because we don't know if his usage would stay the same or not. He may get doubled less but if he gets 4-5 less attempts a game, his stats may in fact go down. 13 FGA is a decent number for a rookie but Franz is at least showing he's able to be efficient with it which is nice, but seriously all the other stuff just makes people want to root against him just like the Raps fans were doing early on when Barnes was popping off, you're doing the exact same stuff.

[SOUL]

Anyway, Herbert Jones is intriguing to me. I dropped him in fantasy like an idiot but he seems like such a solid guy for the role that he plays. Most teams value those sort of guys very highly, it's just if the team can't get Zion healthy or if they don't know what they'll do with Ingram, it makes it a bit of a shame that he can't shine (in that particular role) on a team that can truly use him right away in important games (a la Courtney Lee as a rookie for the Magic). But at least he's providing some good stuff for Pels fans.

[basketballRob]

Dude who the **** cares. Every time I go to this thread you're arguing some small little thing Rob. You're creating strawman arguments for stats as well. "If Franz had better teammates his stats would be better too" is not actually true because we don't know if his usage would stay the same or not. He may get doubled less but if he gets 4-5 less attempts a game, his stats may in fact go down. 13 FGA is a decent number for a rookie but Franz is at least showing he's able to be efficient with it which is nice, but seriously all the other stuff just makes people want to root against him just like the Raps fans were doing early on when Barnes was popping off, you're doing the exact same stuff.

I just always looked at the War because it was the final stat on the Raptor. Maybe I've been looking at it wrong. I'm not trying to make any player look good or bad.



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[SOUL]

I just always looked at the War because it was the final stat on the Raptor. Maybe I've been looking at it wrong. I'm not trying to make any player look good or bad.

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Yeah but several of the scores were lower than what was calculated, even Mobley I think so maybe it's a diff sort of calculations. I'm just saying constantly adding caveats to things (rest, double team stuff, talent around them) just to prop up your fav rookie is something that would annoy a lot of people when any fanbase does it. Maybe Barnes puts up better stats with less talent. We truly don't know unless he's in that role.

Magic fans know we got a good one in Wagner. If he continues great play he will be in the ROY discussion whether other people think it's warranted or not, but these nitpicky arguments over who is #1 or #3 right now is a useless exercise to me. The MVP race, sure, but ROY stuff is so turbulent and can change week to week.

[basketballRob]

I just always looked at the War because it was the final stat on the Raptor. Maybe I've been looking at it wrong. I'm not trying to make any player look good or bad.

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Yeah but several of the scores were lower than what was calculated, even Mobley I think so maybe it's a diff sort of calculations. I'm just saying constantly adding caveats to things (rest, double team stuff, talent around them) just to prop up your fav rookie is something that would annoy a lot of people when any fanbase does it. Maybe Barnes puts up better stats with less talent. We truly don't know unless he's in that role.

Magic fans know we got a good one in Wagner. If he continues great play he will be in the ROY discussion whether other people think it's warranted or not, but these nitpicky arguments over who is #1 or #3 right now is a useless exercise to me. The MVP race, sure, but ROY stuff is so turbulent and can change week to week.

Exactly, we wouldn't know what each player would do in different circumstances. Just because Cade or Franz are on worse teams you can't discard their stats. I think if Cade was on a better team he would look better.

The only player I'm pretty sure would greatly improve each team is Mobley.


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[PhilBlackson]

In all likelihood Mobley wins this so everyone else really shouldn't trip lol

[whitehops]

here's some highlights of cade against the bucks yesterday, just to highlight the attention defenses are giving him and how he's making plays despite the attention:

Watch on YouTube

these plays are all out of the pick and roll or cade iso'ing up:

0:36 - takes a DHO on the wing and hits a spinning floater over grayson allen with four bucks in the paint defending


0:52 - attacks off the dribble, draws four bucks into the paint and hits bey for a wide open three


1:11 - attacks portis off the dribble and draws four bucks into the paint (see a theme here?), kicks out to JJ for a 3


1:37 - soft trap on the PnR (happened throughout the game) so he threads the needle and hits diallo on the slip


2:35 - poor angle by cousins in the PnR and cade takes advantage, getting a layup in the packed paint


these are just some examples of what has become a common theme in pistons games. teams are happy letting guys like saddiq bey and diallo go off because they're throwing the farm at cade but he's still making plays. heck in this game too he hit a couple buckets down the stretch iso'ing up giannis and jrue holiday.

not a lot of people watch pistons games and it's hard to exceed expectations when you're the #1 pick but cade is definitely showing why he was the #1 pick.

[LoveMyRaps]

Scottie with 11 points, 9 rebounds, 8 assists, 1 steal, 1 block tonight.
Those are the types of numbers I expect him to put up the rest of the season. With Siakam & OG healthy now, he'll be getting a lot less scoring opportunities now.
Nurse finally started playing him as a PG and he's been super impressive. Makes such smart reads and terrific passes.

[Spicy P]

Scottie misses out on his first career triple double because his teammates can’t make point blank layups. Oh well. He’ll have plenty of them in the future.

[basketballRob]

Scottie with 11 points, 9 rebounds, 8 assists, 1 steal, 1 block tonight.
Those are the types of numbers I expect him to put up the rest of the season. With Siakam & OG healthy now, he'll be getting a lot less scoring opportunities now.
Nurse finally started playing him as a PG and he's been super impressive. Makes such smart reads and terrific passes.

I watched the game and it looked like his knee was bothering him. When he was running down the court it looked like a hitch in his step.

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[Tripod]

Barnes FGA have been on the decline with him now being the 5th option. It's an example that playing with better players, doesn't mean your stats get better.

17, 12, 14, 13, 12, 9, 7(tonight)

That's his FGA the last 7 games in order. Plain to see. But he is still shooting over 49% in those games so is still efficient. Him playing more PG on offense has led to this too. But tonight he had his highest assist total in a game with 8. So no complaints.

[Gasolina]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/orlando-magic-franz-wagner-onlyfranz-evan-mobley-scottie-barnes-nba/

Good read as to why Franz should win ROY.

roy with the worst record

keep dreaming

Record has never mattered for RotY.

[PhilBlackson]

here's some highlights of cade against the bucks yesterday, just to highlight the attention defenses are giving him and how he's making plays despite the attention:

Watch on YouTube

these plays are all out of the pick and roll or cade iso'ing up:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

these are just some examples of what has become a common theme in pistons games. teams are happy letting guys like saddiq bey and diallo go off because they're throwing the farm at cade but he's still making plays. heck in this game too he hit a couple buckets down the stretch iso'ing up giannis and jrue holiday.

not a lot of people watch pistons games and it's hard to exceed expectations when you're the #1 pick but cade is definitely showing why he was the #1 pick.

Cade seems incredibly smart both on & off court. Have little to no doubt he'll be an all-star, just matter of how much higher than that we'll he go. I'm sure he'll look better and better once he starts getting some better teammates. Personally I wouldn't be so quick to ship out Grant and I'd let him & whoever his running mate will become from this next draft make some improvement next season, start shifting the culture a bit then weigh if you want to move on or not BUT every team needs good, youngish vets that rooks etc respect and can look up to.

[Duffman100]

Scottie with 11 points, 9 rebounds, 8 assists, 1 steal, 1 block tonight.
Those are the types of numbers I expect him to put up the rest of the season. With Siakam & OG healthy now, he'll be getting a lot less scoring opportunities now.
Nurse finally started playing him as a PG and he's been super impressive. Makes such smart reads and terrific passes.

I watched the game and it looked like his knee was bothering him. When he was running down the court it looked like a hitch in his step.

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I agree, but also hard to tell. Barnes' gait is always a little weird.

[everdiso]

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[kwajo]

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More athletic than Marc