The Sebastian Express wrote:JDR720 wrote:The Sebastian Express wrote:I know not a lot of people want to hear this on this board but you can actually see this in effect with the new discourse around the scratches and cuts on Jokic. And how there's now this idea that he doesn't get enough trips to the line despite the way he's all cut up.
But all players get cut up. Terribly so. As another person who is extremely, extremely, and I do mean extremely blindingly white - it's a lot easier to see cuts on white skin than it is on darker skin. But we never hear a real discourse around how cut up Joel Embiid, LeBron, etc may be as well.
This extends into other areas of athletes. I'm mean let's not be disingenuous and sit here and act like American media doesn't salivate at the possibility of a next great white hope athlete, especially in basketball. This is a real thing that happens. Maybe less so these days but it does linger, it does help shape the narrative.
This isn't to discount Jokic's accomplishments by any means, a remarkable talent. We can still recognize his greatness while acknowledging how the media might be more eager to praise him and what he's done and shower him with awards based on his appearance. That isn't an indictment of Jokic, it's an indictment of a media that's still heavily white covering American professional sports which are decidedly not.
The issue with that argument is those white media people still voted for black players the vast majority of the time. And many of those voters are black too, including most of the best known ones. Stephen A has a vote. Mike Wilbon has a vote. Chris Broussard has a vote. David Aldridge has a vote. Greg Anthony has a vote. Chris Herring has a vote. Jalen Rose has a vote. David Aldridge has a vote. Even Kendrick Perkins has a vote.
The NBA media voters are basically a cast of ESPN, SI and The Athletic media people.
Here is the list I found:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview
Your argument about the past MVPs over the last decade doesn't have a great deal of weight. Besides Jokic, out of the last ten years which white player was even on a level to be considered for an MVP vote? It's an inconclusive argument within the context of performance.
The argument is akin to saying "In a field of consisting of five different flavors of jolly ranchers as rated by competing candies, the lollipops also voted for the jolly ranchers rather than lollipops."
A silly example, yes, but to the point.
Thank you for the link. I don't think it had your intended effect.
I counted all the voters. There was only one voter who I didn't feel comfortable trying to determine their ethnicity, so I left him out. I believe I counted up everyone right, but:
Of the people (minus the one gentleman) in the link, if I didn't skip over anyone, there's 116 eligible voters for MVP.
62% are white.
Black players of 2021 make up 73% of the league.
Of the 58 votes (minus the one gentleman) who are on record about who they voted for:
38 are white.
20 are People of Color.
39 of those votes were for Jokic.
26 were white media members, which is 68% of the white vote.
13 were from PoC media members, which is 65% of the PoC vote.
I'd like to see the shift in those numbers for the full account of votes, but this link didn't have who everyone voted for, since it seemed to be primarily going off information provided by those voters on twitter/articles/interviews.
But the real number is the first one listed, which again:
62% of the voting body in the link provided is white.
73% of the players in the league are Black.
Just because the NBA is better about some stuff than the NFl, NHL, MLB doesn't mean it doesn't have room to improve. Getting more diversity in front offices, in local reporting, these are just important first steps. Some of you may not like how eyeatoma is bringing their message across, but the message isn't wrong.
I'll bring up a story Greg Oden told after his playing days were over about his time in Portland, which may not seem relevant but to me it is. He said it was difficult for him to be in Portland because he was a young Black man in a city, a state, which is incredibly white. It's isolating. It's depressing. You don't see many, if any, people who look like you on a daily basis. It's hard to do and hard to feel comfortable and connect.
I brought this up because I want you all to think about how many teams are in heavily white cities. But made up of mostly Black players. But they're covered by majority, if not completely, local white reporters (for example I'm not sure if Portland currently has anyone covering the team from any of the state's major to minor publications who is Black. I think they all might be white at this time). Now take this to a wider scope and remember those numbers above. 62% of the voting body is white. On a national scale, how many media members reflecting and talking about the NBA on 'debate' shows, on the radio, are white compared to media members of color? How many local reporters being brought on to those shows are white reporters compared to reporters of color?
How do our own lived experiences, perceptions and prejudices influence how we write and report about players who look vastly different than us? Who grew up different than us? Who deal with incidents in life that we will never encounter and imagine? And how do we create and spread those narratives on a local and national scale?
Because while he is at the center of this thread and topic, again this isn't truly about Jokic. He's a great player. It's in truth about the media and in some way also fans. How the league is covered, who it is covered by, and what certain media members and fans want to come to pass.
Something little to think about that maybe doesn't mean a lot to some people, but maybe it'll get you asking some questions about how the game is covered:
How many Black athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?
How many white athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?
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