Kendrick Perkins controversial comments on Jokic. Update: JJ Redick goes off on Perk about racism

[Ryoga Hibiki]

But we aren't talking about just players. And you know that and you're taking my response out of context. You're also ignoring the very real reported issue of racism in hockey by Black players who have experienced it, so you might want to take some time to look into that as well before you use it. The NHL has a long, long, loooooong way to go.

But if you want to think racism against white people is a thing that actually exists, we should probably stop this conversation because it won't be fruitful.

Since the majority don't want to understand the nuance and just go straight to "Are you saying JOkic isn't deserving?!??!?!?!" (which he is!) when that isn't the actual conversation, these are good threads about bias in media:

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If people don't want to acknowledge bias in media and continued lack of diversity in media, front offices and so forth, that's okay. You all have that right. People might want to question about why they're so defensive about the idea, but that's the choice of people.

(and for the very angry poster who asked if I wanted to diversify all work forces: yes, yes I do. Wanna have a conversation about diversity in medical fields? ;]).

Bomani makes some points, the second guy wants to appear balanced but then comes out with generalities with no substance.
I think there a few things that must be clearly understood, here:
* is there any evidence looking at the trends of who voted for whom in the last few years? You can't throw statements that 80% of voters are white (it's actually 68%, but whatever) and then not look about how white and non white people voted
* what does diversity mean? if we believe race is an important factor, what split do we want to see in the media? I don't care what the % of african american players we have, the panel should instead represent the fans that are for sure predominantly white
* I am more interested to make sure that we have different point of views represented in the panel. there are the analytical guys, the ex players, ex coaches and unfortunately also the pure gossip guys. Can we check if one category is over represented, even if I am not sure based on what? And then we see how these people voted, because something tells me that are not just the stat nerds voting for Jokic

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and this passage is 100% BS

[AleksandarN]

how does this nonsense gets 32 pages on GB lmao

Because this is the GB.

[Tottery]

Decided to look up MVP winners from the last 50 years. This is such a non conversation. Perkins is unwatchable.

[cdubbz]

Aside from clicks, views, and exposure...I wish ESPN just gave fans good basketball content and analysis. Feel bad for all the really good sports media guys who get overlooked because ESPN wants to be a hot take show.

[Sedale Threatt]

One of the things that makes racism/bias so diabolical is how insidious it can be, particularly at the large-scale, institutional level. I don’t think Player Efficiency Rating and Real Adjusted Plus-Minus being formulated by white writers rises to that level.

[Billy Goat]

Decided to look up MVP winners from the last 50 years. This is such a non conversation. Perkins is unwatchable.

I mean Jokic is the clear cut MVP if the season ended today. American players (or the stars) get jealous when a euro wins. It’s not deeper than that. Perhaps taking the regular season more seriously will put more American players in the conversation.

[Raps in 4]

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and this passage is 100% BS

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Objective statistics are associated with being white?

[Raps in 4]

Also, Jokic is from Serbia. A poor, frequently vilified in the media, country in Eastern Europe. This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the fact that Jokic is statistically the best player in the NBA for the third season in a row.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

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and this passage is 100% BS

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Objective statistics are associated with being white?

I rememeber when ortg was first formulated by Dean Oliver, i think there's still a similar version in bref now.
It's a boxscore based stat that measures (allegedly) offensive efficiency to be looked in conjunction with his version of usage rating.
Well, at the time the highest seasons all time were from Fred Hoiberg and Steve Kerr, and I remember a guy somewhere, most likely rsbp, dismissing it as "white guy stat".

[ghillphx]

Only racist I see here is Perk. An uneducated dude with a microphone.

[Edvan88]

I can't believe I read through all the posts. Many ridiculous comments here siding with Perkins. Seems like the main argument against Jokic from the posters is that the vote responsible for voting for MVP is predominantly white (68%) (and they assume white votes will have a bias towards white players), which does not reflect the % of black players in the NBA. So my questions are:
1. Who are these voters representing actually? Are there representing players? the fans? the American population? the world population? Why should the ethnicity of the voters mirror the players instead of the fans or population?
2. If we care so much about ethnicity representation, why are we not talking about NBA being predominantly black? Why isn't the league representative of the American/world population? Shouldn't there be more white/asians/euro/hispanic etc etc?

[jc23]

how does this nonsense gets 32 pages on GB lmao

Because this is the GB.

same reason the media loves race based stories.

[NirvanaFC]

If you ever wondered why so many Americans believe in conspiracy theories, this thread is a good example

[Ryoga Hibiki]

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I think someone in the NBA corporate office was quite pissed for being dragged into this toxic discussion

[Tor_Raps]

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[Peregrine01]

I didn't say everyone who agrees with redick are right wing extremists. I'm saying right wing extremists are using it as a disingenuous talking point like they do with everything else.

What is the disingenuous argument they are making?

I’m legitimately asking.

They don't care whether or not jokic is actually deserving of the MVP. Many don't even know who he is. All they care about is they heard someone trying to make sports about race, and are coming to the defense of the white guy. And the format of first take has exacerbated this. We'd get a much better take from someone like Chris Herring on the Lowe Post for example than Perk yelling on screen.

It’s awful that tribalism seems to be worse than ever in the US. IMO the first step is to acknowledge it in all its forms.

You have Perk here clearly suggesting that 3 white MVPs won them because they were favored by white media using spurious logic based on false information to wit. A voice like this needs to be reacted to with the same opprobrium that we reserve for anyone who does this, regardless of color. But we dont do this. The fact that there are blatant double standards here exacerbate the issue.

[VFX]

What is the disingenuous argument they are making?

I’m legitimately asking.

They don't care whether or not jokic is actually deserving of the MVP. Many don't even know who he is. All they care about is they heard someone trying to make sports about race, and are coming to the defense of the white guy. And the format of first take has exacerbated this. We'd get a much better take from someone like Chris Herring on the Lowe Post for example than Perk yelling on screen.

It’s awful that tribalism seems to be worse than ever in the US. IMO the first step is to acknowledge it in all its forms.

You have Perk here clearly suggesting that 3 white MVPs won them because they were favored by white media using spurious logic based on false information to wit. A voice like this needs to be reacted to with the same opprobrium that we reserve for anyone who does this, regardless of color. But we dont do this. The fact that there are blatant double standards here exacerbate the issue.

You have it wrong. White people calling out his racist remarks are racist for noticing. Implicit bias towards white players because of the discrepancy in the system was the real issue that went unnoticed because Jokic has a case for 3 MVPs. It’s an issue that should be addressed this season and not the previous 13 seasons. It couldn’t possibly be because race issues are a hot button topic right now.

Am I doing it right?

[Mickey8]

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The most deserving NBA MVP winner of all time last season. That team would have been the worst team in the league by far without Jokic.

[CraftylikeaFox]

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This should end the thread. Nothing else needs to be argued. Look at this graphic, look at Jokic's stats, and there should be no argument from anyone.

[HotRocks34]

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I think someone in the NBA corporate office was quite pissed for being dragged into this toxic discussion

This is good to see.

As, I think it was Clyde in this thread, said this kind of discussion will be co-opted by all kinds of people. Including very-far-right types who will use it as 'proof' of reverse discrimination, etc.

That's why it's important to always tread lightly around matters of race. That doesn't mean it can't, or shouldn't be, talked about, but if you just casually throw it out there as Perkins seemed to do, then all kinds of unintended shockwaves can ripple from that.

As regards matters of who votes (as the ESPN clip alludes to), the voting used to be done by players until around 1981. I think the league decided to change that to media, instead, after Kareem won 5 MVP's in 7 years (including one year when I believe his team had a losing record).

So bias or lopsided voting can happen in a variety of ways. Players can have bias, media can have bias, etc.