2016-17 Rookie Watch thread

[skones]

All the way up to 33% on the season...

History will prove the Murray backers correct.

And King Murray is shooting 35% on the season

If you take a step back from basic statistics and actually watch both players you will see that Murray's star-potential is astronomically higher than is Hield's, particularly when you factor in that Murray is 19 and Hield is 22. Murray had a bad start which has dragged his shooting numbers down. Since then, despite playing on a very deep Nuggets team, he has shown flashes of genuine brilliance on the offensive end. Hield has had a couple of decent games, but he has never looked like a future star.

I would love to see Hield become a consistent, productive player, but if I were a Pels fan I'd be furious. Murray could easily turn into the type of player that would be a perfect compliment to Davis, whereas Hield's ceiling looks to be a decent shooter off the bench.

Not sure you can sit there and make an argument for Murray by saying that his three point percentage is dragged down by his start when you're arguing Murray v Hield.

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[GimmeDat]

Hield and Murray have been so similar this season that it's been a bit painful to see everyone taking sides and arguing about who should've been drafted above who.

I give the slight edge to Murray because he's younger and his %'s are slightly better on the season, but they're both going to be very good players.

[Alex DeLarge]

And King Murray is shooting 35% on the season

If you take a step back from basic statistics and actually watch both players you will see that Murray's star-potential is astronomically higher than is Hield's, particularly when you factor in that Murray is 19 and Hield is 22. Murray had a bad start which has dragged his shooting numbers down. Since then, despite playing on a very deep Nuggets team, he has shown flashes of genuine brilliance on the offensive end. Hield has had a couple of decent games, but he has never looked like a future star.

I would love to see Hield become a consistent, productive player, but if I were a Pels fan I'd be furious. Murray could easily turn into the type of player that would be a perfect compliment to Davis, whereas Hield's ceiling looks to be a decent shooter off the bench.

Not sure you can sit there and make an argument for Murray by saying that his three point percentage is dragged down by his start when you're arguing Murray v Hield.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using RealGM mobile app

I'm not relying on stats as the basis for my Murray fandom. I'm basing it on the flashes of brilliance he has demonstrated.

As I've said, Hield might be good in the future - and I hope that he is - but the ceiling doesn't look to be anywhere near as high.

[UcanUwill]

Alex Abrines looked good on Christmas day. Is his shot finally starting to fall?

[UcanUwill]

Young Domas Sabonis today after two quarters against Celtics:

14min, 7-7 FG, 3-3 3pt, total 17 points (Westbrook "just" 16 pts.)

Malcolm Brogdon finished 7-7, 3-3 3pt, for a total of 17 pts. Also pitched in 7 assists. Already calls for him to move into the starting lineup, after being drafted in the 2nd rd.

But Sabonis has been one of the better rookies this season too. His outside shooting this early has been surprising, ala Brogdog himself.

I was very skeptical about both Sabonis and Brogdon. Had no doubt Sabonis would stuck in the league, but seriously thought Brogdon will be playing overseas in 2 years.

Brogdon obviously proved me wrong. Still not a big fan of Sabonis game tho. Why he doesn't post up anymore? Dude shot 7 free throws all year. Needs to be more physical.

[SkyHookFTW]

Embiid, 25 pts, 8 boards, 2 blocks.

[bwgood77]

Not only the points, but he had 13 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks and 2 assists. Some of his steals and passes are the most interesting. Late in this clip he has a steal and scoop pass to Knight on a break away that is nice..

Watch on YouTube

[Kabookalu]

Not only the points, but he had 13 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks and 2 assists. Some of his steals and passes are the most interesting. Late in this clip he has a steal and scoop pass to Knight on a break away that is nice..

Watch on YouTube

I still think Bender can end up being a top 3 player in this draft.

[bwgood77]

Not only the points, but he had 13 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks and 2 assists. Some of his steals and passes are the most interesting. Late in this clip he has a steal and scoop pass to Knight on a break away that is nice..

Watch on YouTube

I still think Bender can end up being a top 3 player in this draft.

I'm certainly not putting a cap on his potential. His bbiq for a just turned 19 year old his crazy good. That clip pretty much shows it. People may not know just how great his court vision, ball handling, running the floor, and perimeter defense can be. His main weakness I felt was rebounding, but he was gobbling them up tonight. I hope he keeps getting minutes. I mean to get those blocks and steals and rebounds in 27 minutes is impressive.

[TheTrooper]

Not only the points, but he had 13 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks and 2 assists. Some of his steals and passes are the most interesting. Late in this clip he has a steal and scoop pass to Knight on a break away that is nice..

Watch on YouTube

This game is basically what I see Bender becoming. Not a huge scorer,but filling out every box in the stat sheet nicely.
Also I see him as a top 10 defender in the league in 3-4 years time.

[peZt]

Not only the points, but he had 13 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks and 2 assists. Some of his steals and passes are the most interesting. Late in this clip he has a steal and scoop pass to Knight on a break away that is nice..

Watch on YouTube

The Suns are really wasting this guys talent. Not only is he barely playing but when he is they mostly have him camp around the 3 point line when he isn't even that good of a shooter.. Guy was known for his ballhandling and passing ability ffs, let him handle the ball sometimes.

[Jon1798]

If you take a step back from basic statistics and actually watch both players you will see that Murray's star-potential is astronomically higher than is Hield's, particularly when you factor in that Murray is 19 and Hield is 22. Murray had a bad start which has dragged his shooting numbers down. Since then, despite playing on a very deep Nuggets team, he has shown flashes of genuine brilliance on the offensive end. Hield has had a couple of decent games, but he has never looked like a future star.

I would love to see Hield become a consistent, productive player, but if I were a Pels fan I'd be furious. Murray could easily turn into the type of player that would be a perfect compliment to Davis, whereas Hield's ceiling looks to be a decent shooter off the bench.

Not sure you can sit there and make an argument for Murray by saying that his three point percentage is dragged down by his start when you're arguing Murray v Hield.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using RealGM mobile app

I'm not relying on stats as the basis for my Murray fandom. I'm basing it on the flashes of brilliance he has demonstrated.

As I've said, Hield might be good in the future - and I hope that he is - but the ceiling doesn't look to be anywhere near as high.

You are all over the board on this. Buddy isn't so great because he started bad......Murray is so much better cause he started bad......look at the stats......don't look at the stats......well......you just have to see them to believe it.

Here is their player comparison so far. Stats are almost identical at this point:
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/KoZvg

Biggest difference is Buddy was playing very sporadic minutes early on. 3 minutes here, 5 minutes there. He never really had a chance to put anything together.

Since December, Buddy has been a starter, playing against NBA starters. His per 36 numbers in December have been:

16.3 points, 4.2 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 42.5% FG, 47.5% 3PT, 80% FT

Not bad for his second full month as an NBA player. Not bad for a guy who supposedly somehow has a ceiling of a decent shooter off the bench???

[HotelVitale]

I'm not relying on stats as the basis for my Murray fandom. I'm basing it on the flashes of brilliance he has demonstrated. As I've said, Hield might be good in the future - and I hope that he is - but the ceiling doesn't look to be anywhere near as high.

I've seen good games from both (DEN vs Bulls and NOLA vs Clippers) and I don't quite see what you're talking about.
If you didn't know who either guy was and just watched those games I don't think anyone has the advantage; Murray's got more control with his handle and driving game but Hield's bigger and seems quicker at this stage. Both are best when they're hitting tough shots and being aggressive, neither has been very consistent.

I think many people would take Murray over Hield--just like most would've on draft night--because of Hield's age, late blooming, and total reliance on scoring. But take age away and I'd have a real tough time telling you which one I would rather have as a prospect.

[HotelVitale]

The Suns are really wasting this guys talent. Not only is he barely playing but when he is they mostly have him camp around the 3 point line when he isn't even that good of a shooter.. Guy was known for his ballhandling and passing ability ffs, let him handle the ball sometimes.

Not sure that's the best read of the situation. Bender looked a little slow and mechanical last season and then seemed overwhelmed during most of preseason/SL. I think he might just be a classic project, guy that takes a few years to get his speed and reaction time up to a pro level.

For example, he wasn't quite 'known' for his passing/ballhandling last season--supporters vaguely hoped that he could develop those skills since he seemed to have the rudiments of them. But he almost never did them in games, let alone showing anything like mastery of them (like many prospects do). And, in any case, it's a lot harder to squeeze passes and drives past NBA defenders than against Israeli league second or third units. Overall, I think it's very possible that Bender really isn't ready for bigger NBA minutes, and that there's no reason to force him into them when he's got a long career ahead of him. Obviously speculation, but that seems to make more sense to me based on the minutes we've seen him play. Happy to hear Suns' fans thoughts though.

[GimmeDat]

I don't think Bender's a guy you're going to run offense through at any stage, he just seems like a guy that will make the simple play at a high level of execution. He's a high BBIQ player that'll succeeding in a high movement team offense. There's a big difference between that and a Draymond-esque PF passer/playmaker, if that's what's being suggested.

I think his role's being handled well, he's getting a good opportunity without being thrown out too far in to the deep end. He's super young and he's playing very well in the minutes he's getting. Just keep drip feeding him his opportunities and watch him slowly grow, I say.

It also works well because on the flip-side is Chriss, who is productive but struggling with his foul rate big time. By starting him it gives him that open-endedness to working on that.

They're handling both well, imo, and both players and progressing very well.

[bwgood77]

The Suns are really wasting this guys talent. Not only is he barely playing but when he is they mostly have him camp around the 3 point line when he isn't even that good of a shooter.. Guy was known for his ballhandling and passing ability ffs, let him handle the ball sometimes.

Not sure that's the best read of the situation. Bender looked a little slow and mechanical last season and then seemed overwhelmed during most of preseason/SL. I think he might just be a classic project, guy that takes a few years to get his speed and reaction time up to a pro level.

For example, he wasn't quite 'known' for his passing/ballhandling last season--supporters vaguely hoped that he could develop those skills since he seemed to have the rudiments of them. But he almost never did them in games, let alone showing anything like mastery of them (like many prospects do). And, in any case, it's a lot harder to squeeze passes and drives past NBA defenders than against Israeli league second or third units. Overall, I think it's very possible that Bender really isn't ready for bigger NBA minutes, and that there's no reason to force him into them when he's got a long career ahead of him. Obviously speculation, but that seems to make more sense to me based on the minutes we've seen him play. Happy to hear Suns' fans thoughts though.

As I was a big Bender fan going into the draft, the thing that stood out the most to me based on footage was his passing and play making skills. He played PG growing up and seems to have very good court vision and very good instincts. I think he has quite a few strengths such as running the floor, perimeter defense, blocking shots, and making steals, and he even did well rebounding and didn't foul too much in this last game. Last season he may not have been known for his passing and ballhandling but he didn't get much of an opportunity, nor has he this season so far.

[bwgood77]

I don't think Bender's a guy you're going to run offense through at any stage, he just seems like a guy that will make the simple play at a high level of execution. He's a high BBIQ player that'll succeeding in a high movement team offense. There's a big difference between that and a Draymond-esque PF passer/playmaker, if that's what's being suggested.

I think his role's being handled well, he's getting a good opportunity without being thrown out too far in to the deep end. He's super young and he's playing very well in the minutes he's getting. Just keep drip feeding him his opportunities and watch him slowly grow, I say.

It also works well because on the flip-side is Chriss, who is productive but struggling with his foul rate big time. By starting him it gives him that open-endedness to working on that.

They're handling both well, imo, and both players and progressing very well.

While I agree with most of your post, I think they could absolutely run the offense through Bender in the future based on what I've seen so far. I think he is the best passer on the team right now (except for probably Ulis)...or player with the best court vision. He makes passes on pure instinct quickly, whereas the Suns point guards who play big minutes, need to stop, assess everything too much to be very effective as passing point guards.

Ideally it would be best to get a pass first PG like Ball to run things or Ntilinka, but Bender could be used at times to run the offense through in the future.

[GimmeDat]

I don't think Bender's a guy you're going to run offense through at any stage, he just seems like a guy that will make the simple play at a high level of execution. He's a high BBIQ player that'll succeeding in a high movement team offense. There's a big difference between that and a Draymond-esque PF passer/playmaker, if that's what's being suggested.

I think his role's being handled well, he's getting a good opportunity without being thrown out too far in to the deep end. He's super young and he's playing very well in the minutes he's getting. Just keep drip feeding him his opportunities and watch him slowly grow, I say.

It also works well because on the flip-side is Chriss, who is productive but struggling with his foul rate big time. By starting him it gives him that open-endedness to working on that.

They're handling both well, imo, and both players and progressing very well.

While I agree with most of your post, I think they could absolutely run the offense through Bender in the future based on what I've seen so far. I think he is the best passer on the team right now (except for probably Ulis)...or player with the best court vision. He makes passes on pure instinct quickly, whereas the Suns point guards who play big minutes, need to stop, assess everything too much to be very effective as passing point guards.

Ideally it would be best to get a pass first PG like Ball to run things or Ntilinka, but Bender could be used at times to run the offense through in the future.

Interesting to hear.. my assessment is going purely on pre-draft scouting and highlight videos of his season so far, so you obviously have more to go on than me.

He's a real swiss army knife player that is multi-skilled and can fit around other talent seamlessly. It was a great pick.

Do you think you view him or Chriss higher at this point?

[bwgood77]

I don't think Bender's a guy you're going to run offense through at any stage, he just seems like a guy that will make the simple play at a high level of execution. He's a high BBIQ player that'll succeeding in a high movement team offense. There's a big difference between that and a Draymond-esque PF passer/playmaker, if that's what's being suggested.

I think his role's being handled well, he's getting a good opportunity without being thrown out too far in to the deep end. He's super young and he's playing very well in the minutes he's getting. Just keep drip feeding him his opportunities and watch him slowly grow, I say.

It also works well because on the flip-side is Chriss, who is productive but struggling with his foul rate big time. By starting him it gives him that open-endedness to working on that.

They're handling both well, imo, and both players and progressing very well.

While I agree with most of your post, I think they could absolutely run the offense through Bender in the future based on what I've seen so far. I think he is the best passer on the team right now (except for probably Ulis)...or player with the best court vision. He makes passes on pure instinct quickly, whereas the Suns point guards who play big minutes, need to stop, assess everything too much to be very effective as passing point guards.

Ideally it would be best to get a pass first PG like Ball to run things or Ntilinka, but Bender could be used at times to run the offense through in the future.

Interesting to hear.. my assessment is going purely on pre-draft scouting and highlight videos of his season so far, so you obviously have more to go on than me.

He's a real swiss army knife player that is multi-skilled and can fit around other talent seamlessly. It was a great pick.

Do you think you view him or Chriss higher at this point?

Bender by quite a margin for me. You might find it interesting to see Suns fans assessment of who they view as the most indispensable players here viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1502026

[HotelVitale]

As I was a big Bender fan going into the draft, the thing that stood out the most to me based on footage was his passing and play making skills. He played PG growing up and seems to have very good court vision and very good instincts. I think he has quite a few strengths such as running the floor, perimeter defense, blocking shots, and making steals, and he even did well rebounding and didn't foul too much in this last game. Last season he may not have been known for his passing and ballhandling but he didn't get much of an opportunity, nor has he this season so far.

That footage is literally like 6 plays though, IIRC, most of which were fairly routine NBA passes (though not for 7 footers!). He seemed to me more like a guy that could read the floor but would need some time to fit that in with his different scoring tools--which should eventually be spot-ups, fake and drive, pull-ups, etc. But I also felt he was not close to NBA speed at most things, and was thus an interesting prospect that you had to look at and say 'he's really big and can definitely do a bunch of basketball things, wonder what he'll actually look like as a player in a few years?' Just saying, I'm not sure he NEEDS to play right now, so long as he's working hard the rest of the time getting himself closer to being his best self somewhere down the line.