Woj: Raptors trade Pascal Siakam to Pacers for Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora, Kira Lewis and 3 first round picks

[ConSarnit]

Idk man, I'm not sure this makes the most sense for Haliburton team, can he run n gun with them?

Yes. Siakam has always been very, very good in transition. And another synergy to watch out for is that Siakam is an elite finisher at the rim. Guess which team leads the league in points in the paint? Yep, it's the Pacers.

This might be the best fitting team Siakam has ever been on.

What is Siakam good at:

-transition (thrived with Lowry pushing the pace, Hali is a upgrade to Lowry)
-attacking the rim and posting up (Turner provides the spacing Siakam thrived on playing with Gasol/Ibaka)
-switchable multi-faceted defender
-good secondary offensive option who is over-tasked when forced to be #1

This Pacers team is setup to completely maximize Siakam's strengths and minimize his weaknesses (won't have to protect the rim and won't be forced to be a primary creator). if you were building a team around Siakam's skill-set the Pacers are the team you would build.

[Nuntius]

Idk man, I'm not sure this makes the most sense for Haliburton team, can he run n gun with them?

Yes. Siakam has always been very, very good in transition. And another synergy to watch out for is that Siakam is an elite finisher at the rim. Guess which team leads the league in points in the paint? Yep, it's the Pacers.

This might be the best fitting team Siakam has ever been on.

What is Siakam good at:

-transition (thrived with Lowry pushing the pace, Hali is a upgrade to Lowry)
-attacking the rim and posting up (Turner provides the spacing Siakam thrived on playing with Gasol/Ibaka)
-switchable multi-faceted defender
-good secondary offensive option who is over-tasked when forced to be #1

This Pacers team is setup to completely maximize Siakam's strengths and minimize his weaknesses (won't have to protect the rim and won't be forced to be a primary creator). if you were building a team around Siakam's skill-set the Pacers are the team you would build.

Exactly. And Siakam wants it too. It's why Woj came out and said that Indiana was Siakam's preferred destination. Sam Amick has an article about it and in that article he said that Siakam, even when he was in Toronto, would tell people that short of his dream scenario of playing next to Kevin Durant in the frontcourt, Turner was the other perfect fit that would work wonders for his game. My guess is that this is why Toronto had reported interest in Turner. Because they knew that Siakam believed that the two were ideal front-court partners.

Obviously, the biggest draw that Indiana has for any player is Haliburton. That is a given. But it is also true that Siakam fits with Turner very, very well. Sure, it won't be a good rebounding duo but who cares? We aren't going to be a good rebounding team anyway.

[Thaddy]

solid for both clubs. Pacers get an upgrade at the 4 to try and make a deep playoff run that has alluded them for close to a decade. Raptors get a role player and three first round picks. BTW, weird how Masai, considered one of the best in the league, would accept a package centered around two 2024 first round draft picks. Didn't the experts say the 2024 draft class is weak? Weird that a guy who knows much more than them would be trying to acquire more picks in it.

Masai was a former scout so maybe he sees something. At the same time he traded Torontos 2024 pick last year so it could just be the hand he was dealt.

Scouts don't always make great GMs. Masai has been pretty directionless ever since the Kawhi trade. It was fine to keep seeing if they could make it work without him for a couple of years, but by last years deadline, it was clear it wasn't going to happen. You trade those guys while the both had a year and a half under contract, not when they have half a season left and are expiring.

Instead, last year he trades a first round pick for Poeltl? Certainly not a bad player or even a bad trade in terms of value, but it was a trade by a GM who was in some serious denial about what path the franchise was on.

Poeltl is a former top 10 pick. I doubt the player picked between 6-10 will be better than him. The draft is often a gamble, there's no sure science.

They did that trade to give their former core of Fred, OG, and Siakam a chance. The core looked good on paper but couldn't put it together.

[DusterBuster]

Masai was a former scout so maybe he sees something. At the same time he traded Torontos 2024 pick last year so it could just be the hand he was dealt.

Scouts don't always make great GMs. Masai has been pretty directionless ever since the Kawhi trade. It was fine to keep seeing if they could make it work without him for a couple of years, but by last years deadline, it was clear it wasn't going to happen. You trade those guys while the both had a year and a half under contract, not when they have half a season left and are expiring.

Instead, last year he trades a first round pick for Poeltl? Certainly not a bad player or even a bad trade in terms of value, but it was a trade by a GM who was in some serious denial about what path the franchise was on.

Poeltl is a former top 10 pick. I doubt the player picked between 6-10 will be better than him. The draft is often a gamble, there's no sure science.

They did that trade to give their former core of Fred, OG, and Siakam a chance. The core looked good on paper but couldn't put it together.

That core was at best a .500 team, even with Poeltl. They looked, again - at best - ok on paper.

[Dominator83]

He's already IMO a top 6 asset in the league. Guys I would take over him hands down:
Jokic
Embiid
Doncic
Giannis
Wemby

That's probably it. Debatable on preference maybe :
Tatum
SGA
Ant man

But I probably still prefer Hali over those 3.

Yep. I fully agree with your list. The hope is that he improves even more and breaks into that Jokic/Embiid/Giannis tier.

No one minus an Indiana fan would take Hali over Shai.

Based on what? I'm not a Pacers fan and I like Hali better. They're close though hence why I put debatable on preference. Hali is the most elite shooting/passing and never turning the ball over guy since Nash. SGA is a better pure scorer but playmaking it's Hali all day. Look at what he's been doing this year and his supporting cast isn't as good as SGAs (that gap might close some now with Siakam)

I'm equally salty about both players equally BTW. We drafted Wendell Carter over one, Patrick Willams over the other. So in terms of saltiness that's a wash

[Thaddy]

Scouts don't always make great GMs. Masai has been pretty directionless ever since the Kawhi trade. It was fine to keep seeing if they could make it work without him for a couple of years, but by last years deadline, it was clear it wasn't going to happen. You trade those guys while the both had a year and a half under contract, not when they have half a season left and are expiring.

Instead, last year he trades a first round pick for Poeltl? Certainly not a bad player or even a bad trade in terms of value, but it was a trade by a GM who was in some serious denial about what path the franchise was on.

Poeltl is a former top 10 pick. I doubt the player picked between 6-10 will be better than him. The draft is often a gamble, there's no sure science.

They did that trade to give their former core of Fred, OG, and Siakam a chance. The core looked good on paper but couldn't put it together.

That core was at best a .500 team, even with Poeltl. They looked at best, ok on paper.

They had a lot of depth issues but the starting five did well. The issue with that team was the starting five wanted too much money leaving next to nothing for key bench pieces.

[shi-woo]

The Pacers are in desperate need of a Trevor Ariza/Shane Battier type of wing so badly now. I like the core guys of Hali/Pascal/Turner and I even like some of the role players on the team in TJ/Nesmithh/Smith. But now they need to figure out what to do with Heild/Mathurin. It's a question they haven't figured out yet, and have constantly been flopping guys in and out of those slots the past two seasons.

I haven't watched BM enough to really have an opinion on him, so I'm hoping some other fans can weigh in. He seems to already be able to carry a scoring load off the bench, but can he get to the point were he is a solid starter at the 2 or 3? And what does that look like?

Indy is putting themselves in an interesting position to be in the playoffs the next few years with a solid team. We'll have to see how it plays out and how the front office builds off of this

[Michael Jordan]

Its hard to judge the Raptors return right now, but it definitely seems like they fumbled the bag with a top 35 player.

Last years deadline was a complete nightmare for them:
-Fred walked for nothing
-2024 first given away for a role player (likely a top 10 pick)
-Lost the play-in
-Now Siakam was traded for a bunch of role players and future role players instead of a solid prospect.

[phanman]

Raptors - A-

Pacers - C+

I don't love the fit for Siakam here. I'd want him to be my center (or perhaps centre), not sure I love the fit next to Turner. Idk man, I'm not sure this makes the most sense for Haliburton team, can he run n gun with them?

He ranks 11th in points in transition and I remembering hearing a pod (Zach Lowe?) he actually leads the league in layups/dunks within. He converts those opportunities at a 67.2%FG clip and is able to get to the FT Line 27.3% FT frequency. I didn't even know this but the Raptors lead the league in transition points and the Pacers are second with a second fastest pace. It should be a natural fit to run with Haliburton as it was one of his biggest strengths in his developmental years.

I think the move was a home run for the Pacers. They only gave up one piece of their actual rotation in Bruce and received a better version of him in Pascal. The 3 FRPs is a sticker shock but they are all picks that won't linger and hand cap any future moves. They still have their 2028/2030 FRPs + a ton of salary + young guys to make another move if needed.

Bobby Marks did a great job of detailing why the was an urgency for the Pacers to make a mid season move. Yes, they theoretically would of had cap space to sign him this offseason but that would have involved renouncing a ton of guys including both Brown and Hield to clear the required room. Now they have his bird rights + all the young assets to continue to make moves.

Pascal at center would be a nightmare, he's really transitioned into more a SF than a big nowadays. He operates primarily on the perimeter/mid-range and with OG/Barnes rarely guarded opposing bigs. Plus he's become a poor a rebounder with the added offensive responsibilities on a team that struggled in that department since the departure of Gasol/Ibaka.

[ConSarnit]

Poeltl is a former top 10 pick. I doubt the player picked between 6-10 will be better than him. The draft is often a gamble, there's no sure science.

They did that trade to give their former core of Fred, OG, and Siakam a chance. The core looked good on paper but couldn't put it together.

That core was at best a .500 team, even with Poeltl. They looked at best, ok on paper.

They had a lot of depth issues but the starting five did well. The issue with that team was the starting five wanted too much money leaving next to nothing for key bench pieces.

That team was fools gold to end the season last year. Finished 15-11 after the Poeltl trade at a point in the season when teams completely packed it in.

8 wins against the bottom 7 teams in the league (DET, WAS, ORL, CHA)

Wins against "good" teams:

MIN: no Ant or Towns
MIA: no Butler
Pels: no Zion
Bucks: no Giannis, Middleton or Lopez

Yeah, the bench sucks but the starters were not that good. We won because of Nurse jank-ball (crazy offensive rebounding for 2nd chance points and forcing steals to get points in transition), not because we fixed any foundational issues.

The Poeltl trade was panned by many as a bad trade at the time and it remains a bad, short-sighted move. Look at the long term effects of that trade:

-push for the 9th seed leads to FVV walking for nothing
-cost us 6-7 draft slots last year (Dick selection is looking bad)
-high possibility of giving up top 10 pick this year WHILE missing the playoffs
-Poeltl trade was very much a "win-now" trade but on our current path we will likely not see a playoff game for the first 3 seasons of having said "win-now" player

There has been ZERO pay-off from the Poeltl trade and MULTIPLE negative downstream effects to our team. It's been an all-out terrible trade for us, even more so now that we have no need for a "win-now" center.

[xBulletproof]

100% Nesmith starts at the 3, the team got much better with that move(along with Jalen smith moved to the 4), and with Siakam has even more upside.

The question is between Nembhard and Mathurin at the 2, right? Nembhard proved to be much better starting with Hali and Mathurin was better off the bench, so I guess no question how they should follow through, at least for this season.

Indy should definitely use Hield for trading for a Thybulle type of player(deni is out of the question probably). DFS could be the perfect fit, honestly.

Haliburton/TJ
Nembhard/Mathurin/Sheppard
Nesmith/DFS
Siakam/Topin/Jalen/Walker
Turner/Jackson

That's a solid rotation with a lot interesting possibilities. From super Defensive units with Nesmith and DFS at 2 and 3, or going small and having Mathurin attack the rim and get those FT as he showed he could with Hali-Mathurin-Nesmith-DFS-Turner.

The main weakness should still be rebounding, but I guess they could try lineups of Hali-Mathurin-DFS-Siakam-Turner, but at least Jackson has been a beast rebounding in limited minutes

I think the Nembhard-Mathurin thing is pretty easy decision for Rick. He wants 2 ball handlers on the floor at all times, Mathurin is not that. He also has been letting defense dictate starting lineups for weeks. Both of those go to Nembhard easily.

Jackson and Smith are neck and neck in rebounding per minute/posssession/36, whichever. It's part of the reason why Smith has been playing PF. Jackson cannot, because he just cannot shoot at all. So the only option for rebounding at PF has been Smith.

But yeah, the more I look at it the more I'm excited about the opportunities to mix and match new types of lineups we haven't been able to do

[Thaddy]

That core was at best a .500 team, even with Poeltl. They looked at best, ok on paper.

They had a lot of depth issues but the starting five did well. The issue with that team was the starting five wanted too much money leaving next to nothing for key bench pieces.

That team was fools gold to end the season last year. Finished 15-11 after the Poeltl trade at a point in the season when teams completely packed it in.

8 wins against the bottom 7 teams in the league (DET, WAS, ORL, CHA)

Wins against "good" teams:

MIN: no Ant or Towns
MIA: no Butler
Pels: no Zion
Bucks: no Giannis, Middleton or Lopez

Yeah, the bench sucks but the starters were not that good. We won because of Nurse jank-ball (crazy offensive rebounding for 2nd chance points and forcing steals to get points in transition), not because we fixed any foundational issues.

The Poeltl trade was panned by many as a bad trade at the time and it remains a bad, short-sighted move. Look at the long term effects of that trade:

-push for the 9th seed leads to FVV walking for nothing
-cost us 6-7 draft slots last year (Dick selection is looking bad)
-high possibility of giving up top 10 pick this year WHILE missing the playoffs
-Poeltl trade was very much a "win-now" trade but on our current path we will likely not see a playoff game for the first 3 seasons of having said "win-now" player

There has been ZERO pay-off from the Poeltl trade and MULTIPLE negative downstream effects to our team. It's been an all-out terrible trade for us, even more so now that we have no need for a "win-now" center.

The starters were run down and Fred was visibly tired, his legs were gone and his shooting was one of the worst in the league considering his volume. A strong bench plays a pivotal role in regular season success.

[ratul]

Bad trade for the raps and put themselves in that position

[CobraCommander]

Yep. I fully agree with your list. The hope is that he improves even more and breaks into that Jokic/Embiid/Giannis tier.

No one minus an Indiana fan would take Hali over Shai.

Based on what? I'm not a Pacers fan and I like Hali better. They're close though hence why I put debatable on preference. Hali is the most elite shooting/passing and never turning the ball over guy since Nash. SGA is a better pure scorer but playmaking it's Hali all day. Look at what he's been doing this year and his supporting cast isn't as good as SGAs (that gap might close some now with Siakam)

I'm equally salty about both players equally BTW. We drafted Wendell Carter over one, Patrick Willams over the other. So in terms of saltiness that's a wash

Anyone taking a 23 year old Haliburton over a 25 year old SGA is crazy -

One is already top 4 player in the league and the other would have to surpass the other and like 6 other guys to get in that conversation.

I love Haliburton but SGA is already pushing for an mvp and there is no guarantee Haliburton gonna ever be that good - also...they both so young, that SGA is still getting better.

[Raptors_Dynasty]

Masai just shed tears discussing letting Pascal go in his presser. Was a tough watch - tear-jerker for sure

[Sixers in 4]

Raptors are all over the place what a disaster for them.

The OG trade wasn't for picks but for a future RFA and Barrett. They then move Siakam for picks and a negative value contract in Brown (20M over the next two years for 5-10M production) makes sense in a vacuum but not after the OG trade.

Whatever you think of the trades and I like the Siakam deal what its clear the Rapots lack most is direction

[xBulletproof]

Raptors are all over the place what a disaster for them.

The OG trade wasn't for picks but for a future RFA and Barrett. They then move Siakam for picks and a negative value contract in Brown (20M over the next two years for 5-10M production) makes sense in a vacuum but not after the OG trade.

Whatever you think of the trades and I like the Siakam deal what its clear the Rapots lack most is direction

Brown has a team option at the end of the year. It was a 1+1 deal.

[Fairview4Life]

Raptors are all over the place what a disaster for them.

The OG trade wasn't for picks but for a future RFA and Barrett. They then move Siakam for picks and a negative value contract in Brown (20M over the next two years for 5-10M production) makes sense in a vacuum but not after the OG trade.

Whatever you think of the trades and I like the Siakam deal what its clear the Rapots lack most is direction

What are you talking about? The direction is to build around Barnes. They were able to get young players from the Knicks to put with him for OG but got picks and Brown, who isn't a negative value contract, for Siakam. The direction is clear. Picking a direction doesn't mean you need to go all picks or all players.

[God Squad]

Raptors are all over the place what a disaster for them.

The OG trade wasn't for picks but for a future RFA and Barrett. They then move Siakam for picks and a negative value contract in Brown (20M over the next two years for 5-10M production) makes sense in a vacuum but not after the OG trade.

Whatever you think of the trades and I like the Siakam deal what its clear the Rapots lack most is direction

Brown has a team option at the end of the year. It was a 1+1 deal.

I actually like Browns contract and think he's one of our most tradeable assets, along with Schroder.

[stuporman]

For Indy I don't like the idea of giving Siakam that $50milper max contract he's wanting but that they didn't give up Mathurin, Toppin, Wallace, Neismith or McConnell in the process which keeps them with enough present and future depth to compete in the fluctuating east.

The picks are not going to be high ones but the thing that I wonder about is since they won't be able to trade their own picks until 2028 now and if this mix doesn't work they probably won't have the draft assets to make an upgrade move using picks so only using players. Star deals usually require some picks, too.

They have to hope this mix works because it will be alot tougher for them to adjust down the road, especially if he gets that contract he wants. Although, they might be a dark horse ECF team if playoff match ups work in their favor but they need to get a better on defense if they want to up that ceiling.

Masai doing ok in getting some good players and some picks for guys who were on their way out, let's see how he uses them all before we can say these moves are a net gain or loss for them.