are the Knicks LEGIT contenders?!

[ShootersShoot]

It was only one game but the Knicks fans and players seemed to talk a lot in the pre season about how they are ready to contend/match it with the likes of Boston etc

Their biggest weakness from last season (lack of quality perimeter defending) was exposed tonight.

But I do think the Celtics were motivated tonight by the Yankees and esp all the talk pre season of The Knicks being the new glamour team in the East.

I don't see how lack of perimeter defending is a Knicks weakness, when you got the likes of Hart, OG and Bridges on the starting five. The Celtics just made the shots, contested or uncontested, plain and simple. It likely won't be like that every game, so not too worried about that. You live by the three, you die by the three.

Aside from Bridges, that trio you mentioned are not exactly high volume scorers.

Divo is starting to cook for Minnesota. You will miss his microwave scoring off the bench. But I get you had to trade him to get KAT

Why does it matter if those guys are volume scorers or not? None of them are expected to be the top 2 scorers for the knicks. I know they are going to miss him, but Donte scored 10 points on 27% shooting in the first game..

[toooskies]

The Knicks' offensive efficiency of past years was built on collecting all the offensive rebounds. Robinson, Hartenstein, and Hart could vacuum those up at an elite level. Last night the Knicks only had 5 offensive rebounds. (They also failed at securing defensive rebounds.)

Last night the Knicks got out-rebounded by 6 against a team missing its starting C. They played small and got crushed on the boards. Bridges had zero rebounds, steals, or blocks, and just two assists. (Clown on the shot all you want, he didn't do anything else out there either.)

[Larry_Russell]

Knicks biggest problem is that Brunson has never met a shot he didnt like. and the knicks have no one else that can distribute the ball and create.

And none of Kat, Bridges, Anunoby, Hart, Mitchell can go out and get themselves points. They need a distributor.
Last season Knicks were 29th in assists, and they lost guys who actually created and passed.

Look at the past few teams that have won the title.
Celtics have Tatum, Jrue, White, Brown
Denver has Jokic and murray
Bucks had Jrue, Middleton and Giannis


Knicks are a cobbled together attempt at trying to play like the celtics, and it falls well short. I think there is as high a chance of the Knicks finishing behind Philly, Milwaukee, Indiana and Orlando as finishing in front of them.

Listen here Mr. Big Shot, Mr. Celtic, it was game 1. Kolek will eventually be in the rotation, and the Knicks will make adjustments and eventually out KAT at the 4 and get a shot blocker next to KAT. I would agree if Mikal decided to stay autistic, but he decided in quarter 3 to use his brain and reform his shot back.

This is a new team, and a new team requires time to gel especially going against one of the greatest at team in history, so you can take that ring and shove it up your assss

Kolek is your saviour?
What rim protector are you putting at the 5 to allow KAT at the the 4 and also 100% cover for KAT like Gobert did?


Mikals shot is GONE. He should just go back to being a 4th or 5th option at best.

[Joshyjess]

Yesterday morning - The Knicks are LEGIT!!! They are going to go all the way, count on it!!!
This morning - the Knicks stink. They'll be lucky to make the playoffs!!!

Man, you got to love hot takes!!!! (not necessarily referring to this post, but many posts and threads throughout social media).

Personally, I think the Knicks are going to be one of the best teams in the league, and of course they have a great chance of winning it all. Most teams need time to gel when bringing in new players, so what happens these first few weeks or so shouldn't really be taken too seriously.

[JayMKE]

Knicks roster is weak at the top, your best players can't be Brunson & KAT and win a championship. Think about the best players on past championship teams, would there ever be a weaker team to win? They're not the Pistons or even the Celtics, they come up way short. Probably better not trading for KAT and just going all in on defensive specialists.

[King4Day]

Am I right to assume this thread was bumped because the knicks played one bad game, with 2 new high usage starters, no chemistry, against the defending champs, on opening night?
Guessing many are saying they aren't contenders anymore which is always true after a single game 6 months before the playoffs begin.

[Riverwalk2021]

They are definitely a contender to get swept by the Celtics in the POs.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, I can't remember a Thibodeau team giving up 115 points in 3 quarters, so I expect some changes will be made.

[WargamesX]

The Knicks will need about 20-30 games to gel and implement changes, and then Mitch Robinson will be back at around 40-50 games.

[Blazing_royale]

I didn't think the loss of iHart/DDV/Randle changed the outlook of Knicks that much. Knicks last year was more intense, scrappy, had an edge to them. When i watched them now, they seem to lack any prescense in the game and look a lot small. I know Mitchell is injured and it's just the first Knicks game but last year and this years Knicks team is day and night. Looks like they traded defense for offense.

[cgf]

Knicks lack depth. Thibs is going to play the starters 42-44 mpg and run them into the ground. Everyone will be hurt for the playoffs.

Where have we seen this movie before?

How is the Knicks depth worse than Boston, Milwaukee, or Philly’s? The team has 3 bench guys capable of starting without the team falling off…McBride, Hart, & Achiuwa.

Plus Payne who did well for Philly last season and Sims who stepped in during injuries and looked solid. Yes our depth could use work but I don’t see a significant disadvantage until we get to the younger teams (Indy / Orlando).

Posting and toasting pointed it out, Knick’s lack shooting off the bench. Boston has a few guys coming off the bench that will shoot 40% on 5/6 attempts a game. Seems like a decent gap. Isn’t Hart more of a starter now also? He started tonight, half the games last season with Mitchell’s concerns.

That's certainly true, Deuce is a great shooter and Payne/Kolek can drain their 3s, but our bench forwards/bigs aren't shooters unless Dadiet shocks everyone by being a rotation player this season despite still being a baby. And that's probably a big part of why your bench guys have such good metrics against other bench units.

But the flipside of that shooting focus on the Celtics bench is that Pritchard / Hauser aren't as good defensively as McBride / Hart, so if they had to start in case of injuries, they'd be a bigger liability/target for opposing teams. Which may not be as much of a concern for Boston, since KP is their only fragile starter.

...but is much more important to a team that has Mitch, KAT, and OG, as its likely starting frontcourt when at full health. We're currently missing 1 likely starter (Robinson) and I would worry about our bench unit if we lost another...but I wouldn't worry about our starting 5 if McBride had to step in for OG/Mikal/Hart.


I'm not sure what our healthy starting lineup will be, that's likely tbd based on how these next couple months go. I'm assuming that when Robinson is fit again we'll start him next to KAT in the Gobert role...despite all of the changes Thibs has made since his failure in Minnesota, he still puts more emphasis on rim-protection & offensive rebounding than many coaches, and I feel like Hart's energy makes more of an impact coming off the bench.

I'm also assuming that our defense won't be as effective against the top teams with KAT as our main rim protector...but if I'm wrong about that and Thibs can teach KAT to protect the rim against top teams without fouling, then we could see Hart stay in the starting lineup even at full strength.

Making our best bench players; Robinson, McBride, Achiuwa, Payne, and the kids/future-trade. Boston's shooting advantage off the bench would be even pronounced with Hart starting instead of Mitch, but our defensive advantage off the bench would also get bigger.

[Capn'O]

Right now we don't have Mitch _or_ Precious who was the other guy who was supposed to be more of a rover in the paint. It's gonna take a minute for this to ramp up because the defense is going to take a different style either way and the offense will need to be more efficient on first possessions. Fewer second chance opportunities. IMO, the offense is going to look great sooner rather than later but the question is whether Thibs can build a great defense with this group of personnel.

[cgf]

Knicks biggest problem is that Brunson has never met a shot he didnt like. and the knicks have no one else that can distribute the ball and create.

And none of Kat, Bridges, Anunoby, Hart, Mitchell can go out and get themselves points. They need a distributor.
Last season Knicks were 29th in assists, and they lost guys who actually created and passed.

Look at the past few teams that have won the title.
Celtics have Tatum, Jrue, White, Brown
Denver has Jokic and murray
Bucks had Jrue, Middleton and Giannis


Knicks are a cobbled together attempt at trying to play like the celtics, and it falls well short. I think there is as high a chance of the Knicks finishing behind Philly, Milwaukee, Indiana and Orlando as finishing in front of them.

Listen here Mr. Big Shot, Mr. Celtic, it was game 1. Kolek will eventually be in the rotation, and the Knicks will make adjustments and eventually out KAT at the 4 and get a shot blocker next to KAT. I would agree if Mikal decided to stay autistic, but he decided in quarter 3 to use his brain and reform his shot back.

This is a new team, and a new team requires time to gel especially going against one of the greatest at team in history, so you can take that ring and shove it up your assss

Kolek is your saviour?
What rim protector are you putting at the 5 to allow KAT at the the 4 and also 100% cover for KAT like Gobert did?


Mikals shot is GONE. He should just go back to being a 4th or 5th option at best.

When Mitchell Robinson got hurt last season the Knicks had a top 10 unit, less than a month later when the OG trade went down that defense had dropped to a bottom 10 unit. That kinda sounds like exactly the kind of elite rim protector that KAT has thrived next to the past few years

[cgf]

Right now we don't have Mitch _or_ Precious who was the other guy who was supposed to be more of a rover in the paint. It's gonna take a minute for this to ramp up because the defense is going to take a different style either way and the offense will need to be more efficient on first possessions. Fewer second chance opportunities. IMO, the offense is going to look great sooner rather than later but the question is whether Thibs can build a great defense with this group of personnel.

The offense should eventually be a beaut...but I do miss the yin/yang we had with 1st quarter Julius being such a monster that Jalen could feel his way into games before needing to take over.

[Capn'O]

Right now we don't have Mitch _or_ Precious who was the other guy who was supposed to be more of a rover in the paint. It's gonna take a minute for this to ramp up because the defense is going to take a different style either way and the offense will need to be more efficient on first possessions. Fewer second chance opportunities. IMO, the offense is going to look great sooner rather than later but the question is whether Thibs can build a great defense with this group of personnel.

The offense should eventually be a beaut...but I do miss the yin/yang we had with 1st quarter Julius being such a monster that Jalen could feel his way into games before needing to take over.

Right. We saw that with Ant last night. He basically paced himself for the 4th with Jules carrying the load in the first 3.

He's a flawed player but I think a lot of people really underestimate him.

[dakomish23]

[cgf]

Right now we don't have Mitch _or_ Precious who was the other guy who was supposed to be more of a rover in the paint. It's gonna take a minute for this to ramp up because the defense is going to take a different style either way and the offense will need to be more efficient on first possessions. Fewer second chance opportunities. IMO, the offense is going to look great sooner rather than later but the question is whether Thibs can build a great defense with this group of personnel.

The offense should eventually be a beaut...but I do miss the yin/yang we had with 1st quarter Julius being such a monster that Jalen could feel his way into games before needing to take over.

Right. We saw that with Ant last night. He basically paced himself for the 4th with Jules carrying the load in the first 3.

He's a flawed player but I think a lot of people really underestimate him.

Yeah. It's a shame Julius has those brainfarts and doesn't have the finesse of a Zion, or he could be a legit 1st option, but he's a very good #2 despite how bad his lowlights look, and hopefully people seeing him do it in the western conference gets more folks to recognize that.

[Scalabrine]

I didn't think the loss of iHart/DDV/Randle changed the outlook of Knicks that much. Knicks last year was more intense, scrappy, had an edge to them. When i watched them now, they seem to lack any prescense in the game and look a lot small. I know Mitchell is injured and it's just the first Knicks game but last year and this years Knicks team is day and night. Looks like they traded defense for offense.

You mean the one game they have played? Lets try not to overreact this much. The Heatles took 20 games to find a rhythm and they just played the defending champs on ring night who brought all their guys back. They also tied the record for most threes made and were just hitting everything. Lets give this new team some time and not just make sweeping assumptions based on 1 fricken game.

[cgf]

I didn't think the loss of iHart/DDV/Randle changed the outlook of Knicks that much. Knicks last year was more intense, scrappy, had an edge to them. When i watched them now, they seem to lack any prescense in the game and look a lot small. I know Mitchell is injured and it's just the first Knicks game but last year and this years Knicks team is day and night. Looks like they traded defense for offense.

You mean the one game they have played? Lets try not to overreact this much. The Heatles took 20 games to find a rhythm and they just played the defending champs on ring night who brought all their guys back. They also tied the record for most threes made and were just hitting everything. Lets give this new team some time and not just make sweeping assumptions based on 1 fricken game.

Nah, one game is all we need. Towns & Bridges can’t shoot anymore…luckily McBride is an allstar.

[Karate Diop]

Have to give them some more time, but it's fair to point out a distinct lack of toughness and backbone. Yeah they're the Manhattan Knicks but they've got too many guys thinking they're Hollywood now.