2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 4: Who is the MVP?)

[lethalizer]

Shai was -5000 to win the award before last night, Jokic's 61 point game moved his line to -4000.

Jokic is at +1000.

[BruttoNostra]

Shai was -5000 to win the award before last night, Jokic's 61 point game moved his line to -4000.

Jokic is at +1000.

Yea, it's over. And even if Jokic has an all-time great season, SGA deserves it as well.
Jokic should prioritize now his own health and, if possible, a higher playoff seed - right now they can finish anywhere between 2 and 8, it's crazy.

[-Luke-]

If someone had told me say ten years ago that a player would average 29.3/12.8/10.2 on 57/41/80 shooting (66% TS) and elite advances stats - and another guy would win MVP and even deserves to do so, I think I would have kept my distance from this guy because he's possibly insane and dangerous.

[SpurNani]

If someone had told me say ten years ago that a player would average 29.3/12.8/10.2 on 57/41/80 shooting (66% TS) and elite advances stats - and another guy would win MVP and even deserves to do so, I think I would have kept my distance from this guy because he's possibly insane and dangerous.

If someone told me 13 years ago that a 27 year old LeBron would play into his 40s and never win another MVP again, I'd have done the same thing.

Just because you are the best player in the game, it doesn't mean you are MVP. Just because you put up the best stats doesn't make you MVP. Or else Luka would have one, Kobe and Harden would have another. It's like Jokic fans have trouble grasping that. Yes, he's great. He's all time. He's not MVP this year. Best player, sure, he can have that moniker all day.

Despite his all time great season, if they find a way to give him MVP this year it would be a travesty. It would fly against all reasoning and years of criteria for the award. They should just rename the award after him if they find a way to give it to him.

[Jack Dempsey]

I remember Elton Brand and Steve Francis winning Co RoYs in 2000 and I'm believe Jason Kidd and Grant Hill in 1995 too but I'm not sure.

Maybe that would be the perfect solution for this year's MVP race? A Co MVP award. There's just no way you can give it to just one of them. SGA plays amazing and his team is having the best record in the league while Jokic is having a historical season and is keeping Denver relevant all by himself. And I know it shouldn't matter in this year's race but he already got robbed two years ago.

[Jack Dempsey]

If someone had told me say ten years ago that a player would average 29.3/12.8/10.2 on 57/41/80 shooting (66% TS) and elite advances stats - and another guy would win MVP and even deserves to do so, I think I would have kept my distance from this guy because he's possibly insane and dangerous.

If someone told me 13 years ago that a 27 year old LeBron would play into his 40s and never win another MVP again, I'd have done the same thing.

Just because you are the best player in the game, it doesn't mean you are MVP. Just because you put up the best stats doesn't make you MVP. Or else Luka would have one, Kobe and Harden would have another. It's like Jokic fans have trouble grasping that. Yes, he's great. He's all time. He's not MVP this year. Best player, sure, he can have that moniker all day.

Despite his all time great season, if they find a way to give him MVP this year it would be a travesty. It would fly against all reasoning and years of criteria for the award. They should just rename the award after him if they find a way to give it to him.

Actually, I think there's little doubt that he's clearly the Most VALUABLE Player in the league this season. OKC without Shai would be a solid playoff team. Denver without Jokic would be in the Cooper Flagg mix.

[playa-hater]

If anyone had the least bit of common sense, they would be able to see that the entire team in denver runs the game through the joker and he means far more to that team than SGA does for OKC. Jokic got robbed an MVP already to Embiid. The far better supporting cast that SGA has over Jokic is so freaking obvious. Denver would be the Wizards without Jokic. And you don't need to look at advanced stats To know that is a fact.

[-Luke-]

I remember Elton Brand and Steve Francis winning Co RoYs in 2000 and I'm believe Jason Kidd and Grant Hill in 1995 too but I'm not sure.

Maybe that would be the perfect solution for this year's MVP race? A Co MVP award. There's just no way you can give it to just one of them. SGA plays amazing and his team is having the best record in the league while Jokic is having a historical season and is keeping Denver relevant all by himself. And I know it shouldn't matter in this year's race but he already got robbed two years ago.

Yeah, Kidd and Hill shared the award and also Geoff Petrie and Dave Cowens in 1971 and - as we all remember - Mel Hutchins and a certain Bill Tosheff in 1952. But in all those cases only the first place votes counted and it was a realistic scenario. With the five players MVP ballot it would be the biggest coincidence in the history of coincidences. Both player would need to have the same amount of points and the same amount of first place votes, second place votes and so on.

I don't know if there are still 100 voters. But 50 would have to vote for Jokic first and Shai second and the other 50 the other way around.

[MMyhre]

Jokic fans gonna post his GOATly stats after the Wolves sweep them in the playoffs like they won the series.

[MMyhre]

If anyone had the least bit of common sense, they would be able to see that the entire team in denver runs the game through the joker and he means far more to that team than SGA does for OKC. Jokic got robbed an MVP already to Embiid. The far better supporting cast that SGA has over Jokic is so freaking obvious. Denver would be the Wizards without Jokic. And you don't need to look at advanced stats To know that is a fact.

Nah, this one is locked for SGA and rightfully so.

[lethalizer]

If anyone had the least bit of common sense, they would be able to see that the entire team in denver runs the game through the joker and he means far more to that team than SGA does for OKC. Jokic got robbed an MVP already to Embiid. The far better supporting cast that SGA has over Jokic is so freaking obvious. Denver would be the Wizards without Jokic. And you don't need to look at advanced stats To know that is a fact.

these are just some patronizing buzzwords put together.

"least bit of common sense"

"no need to look for stats to know it is a FACT".

etc.

Yeah man, only you know about basketball. Others have no idea how the game is played, they just lack common sense and just can't see some basic facts, even though they are just plain easy to see.

[Exp0sed]

one of a kind mvp race

it's insane that jokic is that good that makes it a close race

it's very easy to overlook how injury riddled this thunder team has been this season.

i don't remember the last time two players posted such strong impact metrics and jaw dropping play go neck to neck all the way from start to finish the season.

if you're unbiased this is really about what you value. -5 team go to +5 or a +5 team go to +15 because of a guy that checked on the court.

Nuggets have been affected by injuries just as much as the Thunder

Jokic has missed about 10 games himself, AG sat out about half the games, Murray has missed a bunch and so have others

SGA barely missed any games, Chet has obviously missed alot and J-Dub some

Thing is when Nuggets miss starters (like yesterday) they start guys like Pickett, WB and give actual rotation mins to guys like Hunter Tyson, those guys would never see a single minute in OKC's rotation

When thunder missed Chet, they had Iharte playing like a top 40 player, when they missed J-Dub they started the other Williams who had a couple of triple doubles in his few starts..Nuggets ate trotting out Pickett, DAJ, Tyson etc. so the effect of injuries for them is much more subtantial because of this huge drop-off. Thunder are much deeper.



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[_NoMas]

Two all time great season. SGA deserves it being the runaway 1 seed in the west. Jokic undoubtedly the best in the world

[Bloodbather]

I am kinda interested in how the MVP race would go if the supporting casts converged and the Nuggets/Thunder were both at around ~60 wins (let's say the Thunder won 2 more games). I suspect SGA would be favored, but wouldn't be a total lock like he is now

The record difference is the sole reason SGA will win MVP. Jokic is having the better individual season. People need to stop this nonsense.

Jokic is having an all time great season but so is SGA. He's putting up prime Jordan type numbers. Impact stats are very close. SGA has a better supporting cast but his team is very heliocentric on offense and get lost without him just like the Nuggets without Jokic; this is reflected in the advanced stats.

I think what moves the needle in favor of SGA is that he's played significantly more games. Also voter fatigue, which is a fair criteria when the cases are this close, imo.

[Me Like Lakers]

If someone had told me say ten years ago that a player would average 29.3/12.8/10.2 on 57/41/80 shooting (66% TS) and elite advances stats - and another guy would win MVP and even deserves to do so, I think I would have kept my distance from this guy because he's possibly insane and dangerous.

If someone told me 13 years ago that a 27 year old LeBron would play into his 40s and never win another MVP again, I'd have done the same thing.

Just because you are the best player in the game, it doesn't mean you are MVP. Just because you put up the best stats doesn't make you MVP. Or else Luka would have one, Kobe and Harden would have another. It's like Jokic fans have trouble grasping that. Yes, he's great. He's all time. He's not MVP this year. Best player, sure, he can have that moniker all day.

Despite his all time great season, if they find a way to give him MVP this year it would be a travesty. It would fly against all reasoning and years of criteria for the award. They should just rename the award after him if they find a way to give it to him.

Actually, I think there's little doubt that he's clearly the Most VALUABLE Player in the league this season. OKC without Shai would be a solid playoff team. Denver without Jokic would be in the Cooper Flagg mix.

Being a non-native English speaker, that's something I cannot understand at all. I'm mean, by definition of the world for me, the highest value would be someone that affects their team win-loss the most (a "little" subjective, but still).

I could maybe understand considering the best overall player as the MVP because of said subjectiveness (the most value comes from the best player), but I cannot understand at all using narratives to decide it.

[Astaluego]

In my opinion, the award has to go to Jokic, he is clearly the best basketball player whenever he is on the court, to reward the team's performance there are other trophies, .. I understand the narrative that the team's performance has to be taken into account, but the difference between Jokic and the rest is astronomical and there is no way to close the gap. These things are always better appreciated in perspective, but I firmly believe that Jokic is the best basketball player in history, at least the highest peak and at least since television is in color.

[SpurNani]

If someone had told me say ten years ago that a player would average 29.3/12.8/10.2 on 57/41/80 shooting (66% TS) and elite advances stats - and another guy would win MVP and even deserves to do so, I think I would have kept my distance from this guy because he's possibly insane and dangerous.

If someone told me 13 years ago that a 27 year old LeBron would play into his 40s and never win another MVP again, I'd have done the same thing.

Just because you are the best player in the game, it doesn't mean you are MVP. Just because you put up the best stats doesn't make you MVP. Or else Luka would have one, Kobe and Harden would have another. It's like Jokic fans have trouble grasping that. Yes, he's great. He's all time. He's not MVP this year. Best player, sure, he can have that moniker all day.

Despite his all time great season, if they find a way to give him MVP this year it would be a travesty. It would fly against all reasoning and years of criteria for the award. They should just rename the award after him if they find a way to give it to him.

Actually, I think there's little doubt that he's clearly the Most VALUABLE Player in the league this season. OKC without Shai would be a solid playoff team. Denver without Jokic would be in the Cooper Flagg mix.

And this is why nobody takes you Jokic stans seriously. The same Denver team that without Jokic just beat the two hottest teams in the West in GS and Hou?

The hyperbole is through the roof with you guys. All because Jokic won't win MVP.

[SpurNani]

In my opinion, the award has to go to Jokic, he is clearly the best basketball player whenever he is on the court, to reward the team's performance there are other trophies, .. I understand the narrative that the team's performance has to be taken into account, but the difference between Jokic and the rest is astronomical and there is no way to close the gap. These things are always better appreciated in perspective, but I firmly believe that Jokic is the best basketball player in history, at least the highest peak and at least since television is in color.

Best basketball player in the history of color television has never beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs. Crazy to think about.

[Packbuckman]

If someone had told me say ten years ago that a player would average 29.3/12.8/10.2 on 57/41/80 shooting (66% TS) and elite advances stats - and another guy would win MVP and even deserves to do so, I think I would have kept my distance from this guy because he's possibly insane and dangerous.

If someone told me 13 years ago that a 27 year old LeBron would play into his 40s and never win another MVP again, I'd have done the same thing.

Just because you are the best player in the game, it doesn't mean you are MVP. Just because you put up the best stats doesn't make you MVP. Or else Luka would have one, Kobe and Harden would have another. It's like Jokic fans have trouble grasping that. Yes, he's great. He's all time. He's not MVP this year. Best player, sure, he can have that moniker all day.

Despite his all time great season, if they find a way to give him MVP this year it would be a travesty. It would fly against all reasoning and years of criteria for the award. They should just rename the award after him if they find a way to give it to him.

Actually, I think there's little doubt that he's clearly the Most VALUABLE Player in the league this season. OKC without Shai would be a solid playoff team. Denver without Jokic would be in the Cooper Flagg mix.

Because they wouldn’t have any size you put a competent center on that team that team makes the playoffs. Jokic is great but their Defense sucks with him on the court just give Denver a solid rim protector that is not close to a lottery team.

[SpurNani]

And everybody that wants to give Jokic a sympathy award because "ohhh, his teammates! Poor Joker! He deserves so much better!"

Newsflash: He already won his sympathy MVP when his team was the 6th seed. He almost single handedly raised that team to the playoffs that year and was rewarded. Jokic is having his best year this year but this year's Nuggets team is looked at a huge disappointment.

They are not seen as real championship contenders and have lost their championship aura. That matters. That reflects on Jokic, who as great as he is, only seems interested to play one side of the ball.