Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers

[radrmd216]

If I was a Laker fan I'd much rather enjoy the last two years of Kobe Bryant's career in a Lakers uniform then some chance at winning the Finals again.

Eff the Celtics for being responsible & trading away Pierce. He should've retired there.

I've read your last few posts in this thread and I agree completely.

What were the chances the Lakers would win a championship anyway? At least Kobe can retire there and he still seems good enough on the offense end that he could break some records. Sure winning is better, but its still pretty cool for a player and a fan base to see see records broken.

Does anybody know any details of the TV contract the Lakers signed. Could there be any clauses where they only get a certain amount of money if Kobe is still on the roster? As others have said Kobe makes more for the lakers than the Lakers pay him so in terms of being a profitable business and being realistic about winning they made the right decision.

[MisterWestside]

How is that a loaded question? I can give you specific players the Lakers CAN pursue like Melo, Love, KD, Westbrook, Irving. You haven't offered up anyone prevented from coming here do to Kobe's contract.

I've pointed out that his contract is only 2 years and expires the year KD is available. And that LA can stretch Nash's contract, or that Pau is an expiring. What flexibility are they missing? the ability to sign Henry to a 8 mil contract? To keep all 3 of their PGs, lol? To waste money on a mid-level guy who screws up capspace for 3+ years??

If you want to attack the contract, you need to specify reasons why other than "flexibility" considering that LA still has tons of that.

Except, um, they don't.

Again: The deal makes sense in its own way, and it’s only a two-year extension. The Lakers will have an honest chance at unrestricted free agents that crop up after 2015-16, a group that could include Roy Hibbert, Brook Lopez, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and Kevin Love, a long-rumored Laker (and Knick) free-agent target. But Love can opt out of his deal after next season (KAAAHHNNNNN!!!!!!!), and the new CBA makes it so that players should enter free agency at the first possible moment in order to secure a max-level long-term deal right away — before injury, a new and more restrictive CBA, or some other variable can pop up. In that scenario, Love would hit the open market in the summer of 2015, with Bryant still clogging up the Lakers' books. Hibbert and Lopez can do the same if they decline their own player options. The Lakers will have a hard time signing any big free agents that summer, especially if they give out even one big-money multi-year deal in the interim (i.e., this summer) to Gasol or someone else.

The point that every sane poster here is trying to get you to see in your cloud of homerism is that the Lakers are in a period where they have to transition from the Kobe era. The best way to do that while keeping the team in contender mode is through the sound management of resources. You don't know who will sign where, and for how much. You want to give yourself the best chance of not being screwed over? Carry plenty of extra cash.

[kingkirk]

I don't really recall bringing that up.

I'm not solely addressing you, but others who have claimed this a good deal because of this reason.

Any chance?
It poses a great challenge to the Lakers FO. No doubt. Not sure you can say what you are saying in finite terms though. We will see though.

You're right. I can not say that with any guarantee. However, i'f i'm a betting man, this deal hurts your chance to put together a title team in the next 2 years more so than aiding it.

The Lakers are only about titles, no?

Overall, they have not shown a consistent pattern of ineptitude. So until then, I will support their moves.

This logic, put frankly, is flawed. Why can't you simply base every move and judge it on its own merits, good or bad?

I don't support them in every decision. Maybe you missed my name, but I am a huge Phil guy. I wish they brought him back. They didn't, and I still follow the team. I know crazy, right?

When did i say not to support your organisation? All i'm asking is from the selected few Laker fans trying to justify this as a positive to stop being ignorant and call a spade a spade.

As i said, it doesn't make you any less a fan, which obviously it didn't you given they didn't bring back Phil, you didn't agree with it yet here you're - a fully fledged Laker fan.

Decisions have to be made. Good or Bad. The Lakers are a team that gets stars, pays alot of money and wins. It makes sense to them, because they did it.

I have no idea what this means.

Is this an instant gratification thing? Tell you what. Let's pick this up in a year from now and see if the Lakers are in a better position or a worse one.

No, its a common sense and objective thing.

They clearly had their reasons. I would have waited until the summer, but I am also not involved in that process. As I have said, for me, the Lakers have always been about getting on top and for me that's enough to believe they have a plan.

They have their reasons, but i would like to know from you who supports their reasons why this makes sense from a basketball perspective. This is why we're engaged in this conversation. Why is this a sound decision? Because Kupchak has done some good in the past therefore any future move must be of the highest quality?

well, they are also not going to attempt to under pay Kobe or not at all and then sit on cap space and min players until Love and Westbrook are going to be FA's. That's just not in their nature.

Who said anything about underpaying Kobe?

A 2 year 30 million deal is underpaying for a guy who will be 36 when this deal starts?

I am certain they have factored all this into their decision.

One would hope so, and if they have, i don't get it.

If the Lakers cap space meant Lebron was coming to town, I would agree with you that it would be scary.They are not getting him.
If other teams are happy about this.. great! So why do other teams/fans care?

Because other teams fans are also NBA fans, believe it or not. We're discussing the NBA landscape and this is a perplexing issue.

The Lakers. That's their decision to make.

Cool, and if they paid 10 million more than what the market potentially is for him, who cares right? Must be a good decision if the FO is making it.

Man, sounds like you got it all figured out. You are right. Damn the Lakers for doing this! What do I do know?

I apologise for expecting an actual conversation with a solid back and forth. Instead, all i receive is ignorance, condescension and PR one liners.

[EddieJonesFan]

It's rare when a poster could come off as more intelligent by simply NOT responding. This is one of those occasions.

Care to explain why, or do you think people will just take your assertion at face value?

does he really need to explain himself here? ok, i'll break down the logic for you. lakers had a plan. lakers realized plan wasn't going to work. lakers changed plan (most likely 2015 FA acquisition targets) to more accurately reflect reality. just because u have a plan, doesn't mean you go down swinging with it even when you realize it's not going to work. that's idiocy.

I was criticizing how stupid their plan was to begin with, Kobe's extension either shows incompetence in them executing their plan over the next two off-seasons, or it shows that they're waving the white flag in competing for championships any time soon. Either way, they shouldn't have done this extension without knowing where exactly they'll be by the end of the season. Maybe the ship has sailed on this, but the rational response to realizing that their cap plan isn't going to work, is to tank and make their '14 1st round pick as good as it can be, not just keep their plan and then continue to pin all their hopes on a speculative free agent class.

[EArl]

Most people agree (even Lakers fans) that this isn't a great deal. Honestly I would rather pay Kobe for two years than pay melo.

The Lakers wil be fine. and we will see how Kobe plays this year and we can argue if the deal was worth it by seasons end.

[kingkirk]

Of course it makes it harder to win a championship the next two seasons.

I guess one charitable explanation could be that it makes it easier to win championships AFTER the next two seasons. It still maintains sufficient cap space to sign Kevin Love in 2015 and, with Kobe's contract coming off the books, to sign Kevin Durant in 2016. And perhaps by overpaying Kobe at the end of his career it sends an extra signal to the likes of Durant that the Lakers are loyal to their superstars.

I have no idea if the Lakers have any chance to actually get Durant (I do think they have an excellent shot at Love), but this deal only makes sense if you are looking 2-3 years down the road. Maybe the Lakers simply looked at this year's free agency class and said it wasn't worth trying to invest in it.

Or, on the other hand, maybe they have no idea what they are doing and just threw a lot of money at Kobe!

Everything you have posted here makes sense, but my position is that they could have done both.

They could have planned for the future whilst still putting together a 50 win team over the next 2 seasons.

I'm not sure if they can now and it seems as if they're cool with whatever happens in the next 2 season because they're gearing themselves for 2015 and beyond.

That's fine, but i thought they could have done both.

[kingkirk]

LA title hopes hinge on pairing Kobe with stars, point blank, everything else is irrelevant in Lakerland. they're ability to do this hasn't been hampered at all, which is the point many of us have been trying to explain.

Correct.

How do you achieve this when Bryant makes 40% of the cap? You won't be trading them in like years gone past. That's not possible anymore. There are zero assets.

The way it was happening was via cap space, which just got chewed up.

This is my point. If Kobe comes back to LA for 2 years on 24 million, you have room to make signings of other key free agents to bolster a team around him.

Giving him 48 million now when he hasn't played this season and we don't actually know what player he will be when he returns makes no sense.

Carmelo said that what will drive free agents to LA to play with Kobe will be his health and if he can still perform at an elite level. If he can, maybe they're prepared to leave money on the table to walk, but if they do, now that he is eating up 24 million of the 62 million cap by himself, the flexibility withers away.

[An Unbiased Fan]

How is that a loaded question? I can give you specific players the Lakers CAN pursue like Melo, Love, KD, Westbrook, Irving. You haven't offered up anyone prevented from coming here do to Kobe's contract.

I've pointed out that his contract is only 2 years and expires the year KD is available. And that LA can stretch Nash's contract, or that Pau is an expiring. What flexibility are they missing? the ability to sign Henry to a 8 mil contract? To keep all 3 of their PGs, lol? To waste money on a mid-level guy who screws up capspace for 3+ years??

If you want to attack the contract, you need to specify reasons why other than "flexibility" considering that LA still has tons of that.

Except, um, they don't.

Again: The deal makes sense in its own way, and it’s only a two-year extension. The Lakers will have an honest chance at unrestricted free agents that crop up after 2015-16, a group that could include Roy Hibbert, Brook Lopez, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and Kevin Love, a long-rumored Laker (and Knick) free-agent target. But Love can opt out of his deal after next season (KAAAHHNNNNN!!!!!!!), and the new CBA makes it so that players should enter free agency at the first possible moment in order to secure a max-level long-term deal right away — before injury, a new and more restrictive CBA, or some other variable can pop up. In that scenario, Love would hit the open market in the summer of 2015, with Bryant still clogging up the Lakers' books. Hibbert and Lopez can do the same if they decline their own player options. The Lakers will have a hard time signing any big free agents that summer, especially if they give out even one big-money multi-year deal in the interim (i.e., this summer) to Gasol or someone else.

The point that every sane poster here is trying to get you to see in your cloud of homerism is that the Lakers are in a period where they have to transition from the Kobe era. The best way to do that while keeping the team in contender mode is through the sound management of resources. You don't know who will sign where, and for how much. You want to give yourself the best chance of not being screwed over? Carry plenty of extra cash.

Zach Lowe??? The same guy who said this deal ruined LA's "plans for 2 max contract players", lol? He has no clue what's going on, and LA is absolutely fine in regards to going after Love in 2015.

Again, Love's max is around 18m, and he DOES like the does of coming here. Are people seriously questioning Mitch's cap skills.

I was criticizing how stupid their plan was to begin with, Kobe's extension either shows incompetence in them executing their plan over the next two off-seasons, or it shows that they're waving the white flag in competing for championships any time soon. Either way, they shouldn't have done this extension without knowing where exactly they'll be by the end of the season. Maybe the ship has sailed on this, but the rational response to realizing that their cap plan isn't going to work, is to tank and make their '14 1st round pick as good as it can be, not just keep their plan and then continue to pin all their hopes on a speculative free agent class.

Interesting...so you think the answer is to tank for a draft pick. You can have the worse record in the NBA and your odds of getting the #1 pick is still only 25%.

Meanwhile...Melo has already shown potential interest. Love is interested, Westbrook is a UCLA guy(wouldn't he love playing with Love), and KD could pull a KG and hit the big market. The odds of becoming a title contender in the next years is MUCh greater through FA than tanking.

[ShowTimeERA]

LA title hopes hinge on pairing Kobe with stars, point blank, everything else is irrelevant in Lakerland. they're ability to do this hasn't been hampered at all, which is the point many of us have been trying to explain.

Correct.

How do you achieve this when Bryant makes 40% of the cap? You won't be trading them in like years gone past. That's not possible anymore. There are zero assets.

The way it was happening was via cap space, which just got chewed up.

This is my point. If Kobe comes back to LA for 2 years on 24 million, you have room to make signings of other key free agents to bolster a team around him.

Giving him 48 million now when he hasn't played this season and we don't actually know what player he will be when he returns makes no sense.

Carmelo said that what will drive free agents to LA to play with Kobe will be his health and if he can still perform at an elite level. If he can, maybe they're prepared to leave money on the table to walk, but if they do, now that he is eating up 24 million of the 62 million cap by himself, the flexibility withers away.

The first issue is comparing LA to other teams. Having extra capspace in the summer of 2014 to build a championship team is a recipe for disaster for most teams. If Lebron isn't coming out West, then LA must jump forward to plan B which is the summer of 15. LA wasting its capspace filling out the roster as you suggest leads them to mediocracy when your best player is 36 coming off a career threatening injury.

Who can you realistically surround Kobe with this upcoming summer in order to make LA a championship contender?

It seems as if the plan is to get A combination of Love, Westbrook or Durant. Or possibly all 3 if Kobe chooses to retire in 2 years.

Now if LA extends Pau, then we can question their motives. Until then all Mitch and co. have done is keep the city of LA satisfied, Kobe in good spirits, keep the Laker brand and name afloat, and most importantly keep cap flexibility for the years that superstars will actually be available.

[MisterWestside]

Zach Lowe??? The same guy who said this deal ruined LA's "plans for 2 max contract players", lol? He has no clue what's going on, and LA is absolutely fine in regards to going after Love in 2015.

Again, Love's max is around 18m, and he DOES like the does of coming here. Are people seriously questioning Mitch's cap skills.

Nice for you to know what Love wants to do before even HE knows what he's doing. Do you also know tomorrow's winning lottery numbers?

Not surprising that the main point of my post flew right over your head.

[LLcoleJ]

I apologise for expecting an actual conversation with a solid back and forth. Instead, all i receive is ignorance, condescension and PR one liners.

I am actually trying to have a conversation. I see where you are coming form and I have said I get it. I can respect your line of thinking or anyone who thinks the Lakers are done. That's fine, again. However, to have a conversation you need to respect the other guys POV too. And you don't. spare me the ignorance and condescension talk , you are not respecting my POV at all.

So in the last post you said something to the effect that if you are a betting man... well let's bet. I say that within 2.5 seasons from now that the Lakers will be relevant again. Are you in?

[kingkirk]

I am actually trying to have a conversation. I see where you are coming form and I have said I get it. I can respect your line of thinking or anyone who thinks the Lakers are done. That's fine, again. However, to have a conversation you need to respect the other guys POV too. And you don't. spare me the ignorance and condescension talk , you are not respecting my POV at all.

Are you?

The majority of your posts back to me were one liners. I'm trying my best to get an objective answer out you and that's what you dish yet I'm the one who doesn't respect your opinion?

Please.

So in the last post you said something to the effect that if you are a betting man... well let's bet. I say that within 2.5 seasons from now that the Lakers will be relevant again. Are you in?

See, I have to question whether you were reading my posts. I didn't say they were done. I didn't say they weren't going to win anything in the near future.

To the contrary. My whole point on this is that they could have resigned Kobe to a less expensive deal and giving him a better product to play out his final years with whilst msintaining their options for 2015 and beyond.

Instead, whilst 2015+ still looks good, the next 2 seasons just got that much harder for Mitch to give the fans the best possible team.

As for your bet? Why would I make such a silly bet that goes against my entire thought process on this?

You made this proposal by assuming my position rather than actually reading it. I won't hold it against you,

[boateng]

47 pages though

[TheBargnaniRule]

I gotta say I've done a full 180 on this matter. I actually now think that the Lakers were right to give Kobe the extension they did. If anything they should have given him more.

The guy makes so much money for the Lakers that it's outrageous for them to ask Kobe to take a pay-cut. It's lucky that Kobe doesn't have a big ego and handled the diss with class. It doesn't matter what percentage of the cap Kobe takes up, since it's not like they were going to sign anyone anyway. Might as well give it all to Kobe. Kobe should be earning $40 mill plus per year in his final seasons.

People keep talking about flexibility like it means anything. I'd argue that having too many options is a bad thing as it makes it hard to make decisions. With this extension, and thus having less flexibility, it will be much easier for the Lakers to make decisions going forward since they won't have to think as much.

[LLcoleJ]

Are you?

The majority of your posts back to me were one liners. I'm trying my best to get an objective answer out you and that's what you dish yet I'm the one who doesn't respect your opinion?

Please.

They were 1 liners because it's not a conversation if you and I are dissecting each sentence back and forth and repeating the same thing over and over.

Your position is it's impossible at this point for the lakers to be above .500 for the next 2 years of Kobe's extension. THey done screwed up.

Mine. I believe the Lakers will still continue to try to make moves to get back to competing.

Does this about sum it up? If so, we can agree to disagree. Since regardless of who is right it's impossible to tell what will happen in the NBA in any given season.

See, I have to question whether you were reading my posts. I didn't say they were done. I didn't say they weren't going to win anything in the near future.

This is what you are saying.

This move basically means the Lakers will be hovering around .500 for the next 2 seasons

You may be right. I just disagree that this puts a nail in the coffin. What else am I missing form your position?

To the contrary. My whole point on this is that they could have resigned Kobe to a less expensive deal and giving him a better product to play out his final years with whilst msintaining their options for 2015 and beyond.

I think we both have agreed that we would have waited until the summer. However, I then said, I don't make those decisions but I Trust in the org. that has been so good for so long.

Correct? Are we still on the same page?

Instead, whilst 2015+ still looks good, the next 2 seasons just got that much harder for Mitch to give the fans the best possible team.

Absolutely. Mitch has admitted as much. He also said they make decisions not based on anything other than winning. Basketball and Business decisions are one in the same.

Again, we agree that it will be a challenge but disagree wether or not Mitch can pull it off. I am ok with that.

As for your bet? Why would I make such a silly bet that goes against my entire thought process on this?

Why would it be silly? We both disagree on a subject and neither of us are going to have the answers to the subject in the near future. But we would ultimately have the answer for this. That's the great things about bets. But if you are not interested, that's fine too.

You made this proposal by assuming my position rather than actually reading it. I won't hold it against you,

Well prove to me that you have understood my position. Because I have listed and outlined your position.

[MisterWestside]

People keep talking about flexibility like it means anything. I'd argue that having too many options is a bad thing as it makes it hard to make decisions. With this extension, and thus having less flexibility, it will be much easier for the Lakers to make decisions going forward since they won't have to think as much.

Of course. Nothing like having team needs that you can't even think about filling because you lack resources.

Keep it simple, stupid...all the way to mediocrity.

[kingkirk]

They were 1 liners because it's not a conversation if you and I are dissecting each sentence back and forth and repeating the same thing over and over.

Well, this is awkward given we’re doing it again...

Your position is it's impossible at this point for the lakers to be above .500 for the next 2 years of Kobe's extension. THey done screwed up.

Mine. I believe the Lakers will still continue to try to make moves to get back to competing. .

No. My position isn’t that its impossible. My position is that they could have waited to know what kind of Bryant was coming back at 35 off an Achilles injury whilst offering him a lesser deal that would still pay him a damn heap that allows them to still be in play for 2015 whilst also giving them greater flexibility in the now.

Its simple maths. If Kobe earns 15 million next season instead of 24, isn’t that more flexible for the Lakers and improves their chances of winning next season as well as 2015+?

That was my position. Its not what you thought it was.

This is what you are saying.

This move basically means the Lakers will be hovering around .500 for the next 2 seasons

You may be right. I just disagree that this puts a nail in the coffin. What else am I missing form your position?

Correct, i don’t believe the Lakers can be a 50 win type team with Kobe being 36 and being paid 24 million. I think they will battle around .500 and will look to replicate what they did last season in terms of W/L.

They have reduced their flexibility thus reducing the likelihood of them winning a heap of games.

I don’t think that’s me putting the nail in the coffin, certainly not long term anyway.

I think we both have agreed that we would have waited until the summer. However, I then said, I don't make those decisions but I Trust in the org. that has been so good for so long.

You did say that, in which i replied ‘why can’t you question them despite of their record’. You never replied to that. It doesn’t hurt to ask questions, even of those that have the runs on the board. Asking ‘why’ isn’t a bad thing.

Absolutely. Mitch has admitted as much. He also said they make decisions not based on anything other than winning. Basketball and Business decisions are one in the same.

Again, we agree that it will be a challenge but disagree wether or not Mitch can pull it off. I am ok with that.

So Mitch admitted to what i said, that its reduces the teams flexibility? Good to know.

I never said he can’t pull it off, i said he has made his life that much more difficult in order to do so, especially given he is only bidding against himself at this point.

Why would it be silly? We both disagree on a subject and neither of us are going to have the answers to the subject in the near future. But we would ultimately have the answer for this. That's the great things about bets. But if you are not interested, that's fine too.

Why would i take a bet that the Lakers will be relevant again in 2.5 half seasons when that is common knowledge and an opinion i hold and have already addressed countless times in this threads and any others that reference the Lakers cap position in 2015.

Well prove to me that you have understood my position. Because I have listed and outlined your position.

Well, you didn’t accurately list mine. You seem to think i have some agenda against LA, that i’m just some other chump that hates your team. That isn’t the case.

Your position is that you’re fine with this deal because if Mitch is cool with it, Phil XI is as well. You also think this moves doesn’t hamper the Lakers position now or beyond and you expect the Lakers to continue to retool next season on the basis that they will keep building towards sound basketball and business decisions in unison. You trust the organisation to make the right call on this and you will back them in given their history.

To me, that is your position.

[semi-sentient]

I can't believe people are putting forth this much effort to argue for or against Kobe's contract. It's done. Deal with it.

[bledredwine]

This actually surprised me, but good for Kobe and the organization in remaining loyal.


Kobe - $$$$$

[DirtyDez]

Things like this happen when owners play GM.