The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[Kolkmania]

Simmons isnt even tenchincally a rookie, which makes what mitchell is doing way more impressive. Mitchell didnt get a year of learning nba traning on the sidelines like simmons. Came straight rom college dominating, and the jazz are making a run right now

Just imagine what Donovan Mitchell could have been if he was drafted as freshman, averaging 7/3/2 on mediocre efficiency, and could sit out his rookie year. Probably an All-NBA player, shame he opted for a sophomore year at Louisville and playing competitive basketball.

[michaelm]

Simmons isnt even tenchincally a rookie, which makes what mitchell is doing way more impressive. Mitchell didnt get a year of learning nba traning on the sidelines like simmons. Came straight rom college dominating, and the jazz are making a run right now

I would have no problem with Mitchell being ROTY over Simmons on current form, and him ultimately having a more impressive overall season than Simmons looks to be a possibility if he and the Jazz keep going as they have been recently.

What part of a player qualifying to be regarded as never having played an NBA game by never playing an NBA game don't you understand, however?.

[Tron Carter]

this season would be totally appropriate to have co-ROTYs ala Kidd & Hill imo.

[Dave_From_NB]

Tatum with 27 4 3, along with 4 steals and no turnovers, and it's not even the best stat line of the night. This is quite some rookie class.

[UNCBlue012]

Tatum doe...

[sunevisions]

I think Mitchell already ahead Simmons

This year ROTY is fun to watch.

[dautjazz]

MJ, Griffin, Iverson, Mitchell. The only rookies since 1980 to score 40 multiple times.

Pretty sure Griffin only had two 40+ games, so it will be interesting if Donovan gets another one.

I'm wondering how many 40+ games Iverson and Mj had.


Anyway, Mitchell is in some really elite company with his rookie season. Hopefully we're done hearing the complaints of why he is still considered a possibile ROTY by the "Simmons is a lock" crowd.

Mitchell is right there with Simmons, and if he continues to put up nights like this he will ahead I think. Check out PER100 possessions numbers:

Mitchell: 31pts 5.3rbs 5.5asts 2.4stls .6blks 4.1tovs TS% .557 PER: 17.7
Simmons: 23.1pts 10.6rbs 10asts 2.4stls 1.2blks 5.2tovs TS% .545 PER: 18.4

Mitchell is clearly the better scorer, even more efficient. Simmons has a much better FG%, but all he does is attack the basket, he has ZERO perimeter game, and can't hit a free throw. Simmons certainly has him beat on rebounding and assists, rebounding is no shocker, and assists is because of the role they play on the team, but Simmons is probably the better playmaker of the two as Mitchell hasn't played PG before (or atleast to my knowledge). I'll give Simmons the advantage for now because his game is more well rounded, atleast statistically, but the gap is closing in.

[Hedda Gambler]

It is bizarre that a guard who is the favorite to win ROTY has not made a single three 50 games into his NBA-carreer. Has this ever happened before?

[eminence]

Pretty sure Griffin only had two 40+ games, so it will be interesting if Donovan gets another one.

I'm wondering how many 40+ games Iverson and Mj had.

Iverson had 5, including a 50 point game. Jordan had 7.

Iverson's were all consecutive was the really cool bit, 5 straight 40+ games near the end of the season.

[HartfordWhalers]

It is bizarre that a guard who is the favorite to win ROTY has not made a single three 50 games into his NBA-carreer. Has this ever happened before?

Amar'e went 2 for 10 on 3's his rookie year, but got the first one in game 7.
Blake went 27 games, getting 1 in his 28th game.
Pau went 1 for 5 on 3's his rookie year, but got the first one in game 36.

But the winner is...
Emeka Okafor who won ROTY and is a career 0 for 2 on three pointers.

[Hedda Gambler]

It is bizarre that a guard who is the favorite to win ROTY has not made a single three 50 games into his NBA-carreer. Has this ever happened before?

Amar'e went 2 for 10 on 3's his rookie year, but got the first one in game 7.
Blake went 27 games, getting 1 in his 28th game.
Pau went 1 for 5 on 3's his rookie year, but got the first one in game 36.

But the winner is...
Emeka Okafor who won ROTY and is a career 0 for 2 on three pointers.

These guys are all bigs. What makes Simmons stand out is that he is playing as a guard.

[commentatorer]

It is bizarre that a guard who is the favorite to win ROTY has not made a single three 50 games into his NBA-carreer. Has this ever happened before?

Even in Michael Jordan's 4th year he attempted 53 and made only 7

I hope Simmons never makes a 3, because if he makes a 3 it will encourage him to attempt more, and the biggest problem in the NBA is players wasting their athleticism by settling for lazy treys.

[Hedda Gambler]

It is bizarre that a guard who is the favorite to win ROTY has not made a single three 50 games into his NBA-carreer. Has this ever happened before?

Even in Michael Jordan's 4th year he attempted 53 and made only 7

I hope Simmons never makes a 3, because if he makes a 3 it will encourage him to attempt more, and the biggest problem in the NBA is players wasting their athleticism by settling for lazy treys.

John Stockton made 2 threes in each of his first two seasons. Crazy how the league has evolved.

[HartfordWhalers]

It is bizarre that a guard who is the favorite to win ROTY has not made a single three 50 games into his NBA-carreer. Has this ever happened before?

Amar'e went 2 for 10 on 3's his rookie year, but got the first one in game 7.
Blake went 27 games, getting 1 in his 28th game.
Pau went 1 for 5 on 3's his rookie year, but got the first one in game 36.

But the winner is...
Emeka Okafor who won ROTY and is a career 0 for 2 on three pointers.

These guys are all bigs. What makes Simmons stand out is that he is playing as a guard.

Well Simmons is a big... who is playing as a guard.

He has not taken a 3 that wasn't a buzzer beater. 8 of the 10 are from 40+ feet, and the remaining two were still last second chucks where the team inbounded him the ball with three (and two) seconds left and he got as close as he could before shooting:This was his closest three point shot

When you look at Simmons overall shot chart, his scoring comes just where a bigs traditional has:shot chart

So for a guard Simmons is going to look a lot like a big. Conversely, as a big he does a lot of ball handling and passing.

[Bernman]

Sterling Brown is probably better than whatever rookie on your team that you hyped, but you just don't know it yet. Very good off the bench or decent starter in the future. Battier-type stealth needle mover. Great defensive awareness + effort, strong on boards for position, solid shooter off the catch and off ball cutter who mostly stays within this role. Another 2nd round Bucks' steal. Thinking of trading all our 1st round picks for 2nd rounders in the future.

[Hindenburg]

Simmons isnt even tenchincally a rookie, which makes what mitchell is doing way more impressive. Mitchell didnt get a year of learning nba traning on the sidelines like simmons. Came straight rom college dominating, and the jazz are making a run right now

I would have no problem with Mitchell being ROTY over Simmons on current form, and him ultimately having a more impressive overall season than Simmons looks to be a possibility if he and the Jazz keep going as they have been recently.

What part of a player qualifying to be regarded as never having played an NBA game by never playing an NBA game don't you understand, however?.

Simmons got a full year of NBA level coaching, training, conditioning, nutrition all while pocketing 7+ million which is huge. Simmons got a year of head start to get used to plays, team travel etc. Mitchell didn't have any of that last year. Which is why people are saying it isn't fair to qualify Simmons a rookie.

This whole "oh well he didn't play one game, so he's a rookie still" ignores so much.

[sixerswillrule]

Simmons isnt even tenchincally a rookie, which makes what mitchell is doing way more impressive. Mitchell didnt get a year of learning nba traning on the sidelines like simmons. Came straight rom college dominating, and the jazz are making a run right now

I would have no problem with Mitchell being ROTY over Simmons on current form, and him ultimately having a more impressive overall season than Simmons looks to be a possibility if he and the Jazz keep going as they have been recently.

What part of a player qualifying to be regarded as never having played an NBA game by never playing an NBA game don't you understand, however?.

Simmons got a full year of NBA level coaching, training, conditioning, nutrition all while pocketing 7+ million which is huge. Simmons got a year of head start to get used to plays, team travel etc. Mitchell didn't have any of that last year. Which is why people are saying it isn't fair to qualify Simmons a rookie.

This whole "oh well he didn't play one game, so he's a rookie still" ignores so much.

Just imagine what Donovan Mitchell could have been if he was drafted as freshman, averaging 7/3/2 on mediocre efficiency, and could sit out his rookie year. Probably an All-NBA player, shame he opted for a sophomore year at Louisville and playing competitive basketball.

[UncleBresk]

Simmons got a full year of NBA level coaching, training, conditioning, nutrition all while pocketing 7+ million which is huge. Simmons got a year of head start to get used to plays, team travel etc. Mitchell didn't have any of that last year. Which is why people are saying it isn't fair to qualify Simmons a rookie.

This whole "oh well he didn't play one game, so he's a rookie still" ignores so much.

Would you be saying this if Ben played for your favourite team?

How can you claim a full year of conditioning and training when the guy was injured for the vast majority of that time?

He did not travel with the team, he sat at home in a moon boot fantasising about playing basketball. If that is more valuable to his development than an extra year in college then why don't all the top prospects follow this practice?

I guess you consider Joel a veteran cos he's been in the league the same amount of time as Gary Harris, Kyle Anderson, TJ Warren and Marcus Smart.

[Cappy_Smurf]

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[michaelm]

Simmons isnt even tenchincally a rookie, which makes what mitchell is doing way more impressive. Mitchell didnt get a year of learning nba traning on the sidelines like simmons. Came straight rom college dominating, and the jazz are making a run right now

I would have no problem with Mitchell being ROTY over Simmons on current form, and him ultimately having a more impressive overall season than Simmons looks to be a possibility if he and the Jazz keep going as they have been recently.

What part of a player qualifying to be regarded as never having played an NBA game by never playing an NBA game don't you understand, however?.

Simmons got a full year of NBA level coaching, training, conditioning, nutrition all while pocketing 7+ million which is huge. Simmons got a year of head start to get used to plays, team travel etc. Mitchell didn't have any of that last year. Which is why people are saying it isn't fair to qualify Simmons a rookie.

This whole "oh well he didn't play one game, so he's a rookie still" ignores so much.

You can say his year with the team without playing may have advantaged him, and some will dispute you and in fact have done so, arguing not playing disadvantaged him, particularly given he apparently couldn’t practice.

What you can’t argue is that he isn’t a rookie, especially technically. He is a rookie because he didn’t play prior to this year, end of story.

Are you suggesting he broke his foot deliberately?.