MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] - voting reopened

[THE J0KER]

Is there some conspiracy against the Giannis MVP case?
Spencer Dinwiddie, Luka Doncic Named NBA's Players Of The Week

Luka Doncic choice on the West this week was homer pick, but with all respect to Spencer Dinwiddie career-best week, how on Earth his 25.3 points, 3.5 rebounds and 6.8 assists (Brooklyn Nets 3-1) can be even compared with Giannis 29.5 points, 12.5 rebounds and 6.0 assists, as the Milwaukee Bucks went 4-0??

[Archx]

This is respect. It should be an interesting game.

Watch on YouTube

Already last season he said he is his biggest fan and i guess he still is lol. Nice to see Doc being honest about it

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Is there some conspiracy against the Giannis MVP case?
Spencer Dinwiddie, Luka Doncic Named NBA's Players Of The Week

Luka Doncic choice on the West this week was homer pick, but with all respect to Spencer Dinwiddie career-best week, how on Earth his 25.3 points, 3.5 rebounds and 6.8 assists (Brooklyn Nets 3-1) can be even compared with Giannis 29.5 points, 12.5 rebounds and 6.0 assists, as the Milwaukee Bucks went 4-0??

Those are actually below Giannis season average this year, so I guess he's being held to such a ridiculously high standard and Dinwiddie played so far above his norm with Kyrie out. That's the only thing I can come up with.

[THE J0KER]

Is there some conspiracy against the Giannis MVP case?
Spencer Dinwiddie, Luka Doncic Named NBA's Players Of The Week

Luka Doncic choice on the West this week was homer pick, but with all respect to Spencer Dinwiddie career-best week, how on Earth his 25.3 points, 3.5 rebounds and 6.8 assists (Brooklyn Nets 3-1) can be even compared with Giannis 29.5 points, 12.5 rebounds and 6.0 assists, as the Milwaukee Bucks went 4-0??

Those are actually below Giannis season average this year, so I guess he's being held to such a ridiculously high standard and Dinwiddie played so far above his norm with Kyrie out. That's the only thing I can come up with.

That is legit criteria if someone (over)performed close to Giannis, but 25-4-7 is not close to 30-13-6, especially considering that Bucks have perfect 4-0 record that week.

[HotRocks34]

I'm going with Giannis.

As long as the Bucks stay relatively healthy, I think they'll have the best record in the league and Giannis will rack up stats on the way to defending his MVP award.

[MindState]

LeBron/Davis are disqualified from the MVP race.

If KD/Steph were disqualified for 3 years because of being on the same team, those two should be also. Two top 5 players on the same team means no MVP for either.

Sucks, but it is what it is. Thats the way it works.

Ive got Giannis and Doncic as #1 and #2 right now, followed by Jokic at #3.

[Dupp]

Is there some conspiracy against the Giannis MVP case?
Spencer Dinwiddie, Luka Doncic Named NBA's Players Of The Week

Luka Doncic choice on the West this week was homer pick, but with all respect to Spencer Dinwiddie career-best week, how on Earth his 25.3 points, 3.5 rebounds and 6.8 assists (Brooklyn Nets 3-1) can be even compared with Giannis 29.5 points, 12.5 rebounds and 6.0 assists, as the Milwaukee Bucks went 4-0??

Yeah that’s dumb. I guess giannis held to too high standard and giving extra credit to dimwitt for taking over and doing a better job than Kyrie.

[picko]

LeBron/Davis are disqualified from the MVP race.

If KD/Steph were disqualified for 3 years because of being on the same team, those two should be also. Two top 5 players on the same team means no MVP for either.

Sucks, but it is what it is. Thats the way it works.

Ive got Giannis and Doncic as #1 and #2 right now, followed by Jokic at #3.

KD / Curry were also on one of the most stacked teams in NBA history. KD couldn't win because he not only had Curry but Klay and Dray. Quite a difference from the two man show in LA where their third best player is Danny Green.

And those putting together early MVP rankings recognise this. LeBron is firmly in the thick of things. As he should be.

[SK21209]

LeBron, Doncic and Harden are awesome but I don't see how its not Giannis. He's probably the best all-around player of those 3 (except maybe LeBron) and also has his team in first with his #2 guy out. As of today I'd probably go:

1. Giannis
2. Doncic
3. LeBron
4. Harden

[Dupp]

LeBron/Davis are disqualified from the MVP race.

If KD/Steph were disqualified for 3 years because of being on the same team, those two should be also. Two top 5 players on the same team means no MVP for either.

Sucks, but it is what it is. Thats the way it works.

Ive got Giannis and Doncic as #1 and #2 right now, followed by Jokic at #3.

Nah. Lakers 3-12 players are about a billion times worse than what warriors had.

Besides, Neither Steph nor kd even deserved the mvp any of the seasons they played together... so that argument doesn’t really work.

Lebron won 2 playing with wade.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Is there some conspiracy against the Giannis MVP case?
Spencer Dinwiddie, Luka Doncic Named NBA's Players Of The Week

Luka Doncic choice on the West this week was homer pick, but with all respect to Spencer Dinwiddie career-best week, how on Earth his 25.3 points, 3.5 rebounds and 6.8 assists (Brooklyn Nets 3-1) can be even compared with Giannis 29.5 points, 12.5 rebounds and 6.0 assists, as the Milwaukee Bucks went 4-0??

Those are actually below Giannis season average this year, so I guess he's being held to such a ridiculously high standard and Dinwiddie played so far above his norm with Kyrie out. That's the only thing I can come up with.

That is legit criteria if someone (over)performed close to Giannis, but 25-4-7 is not close to 30-13-6, especially considering that Bucks have perfect 4-0 record that week.

I don't disagree, I just think that's the reasoning for them selecting Dinwiddie, since he carried the team to wins without Kyrie.

[greekbuck34]

Is there some conspiracy against the Giannis MVP case?
Spencer Dinwiddie, Luka Doncic Named NBA's Players Of The Week

Luka Doncic choice on the West this week was homer pick, but with all respect to Spencer Dinwiddie career-best week, how on Earth his 25.3 points, 3.5 rebounds and 6.8 assists (Brooklyn Nets 3-1) can be even compared with Giannis 29.5 points, 12.5 rebounds and 6.0 assists, as the Milwaukee Bucks went 4-0??

Giannis will just take the player of the month award. The player of the week awards are mainly getting used to showcase something unusual and doesn't count that much.

Last season Giannis was player of the month 4/5 times(he lost one from Embiid in January) but only 6/23 times player of the week.
In fact he was player of March despite not even being player of the week once that month.

On his MVP season Harden only won 5/23 player of the week awards.

[jokeboy86]

The vote did not “often” go elsewhere. It’s literally always a top 2 seed besides Westbrook.

You do realize that you changed your sentence from "top seed" to "top 2 seed" and acted as if I was wrong? That's just so weird that someone could change the premise and act as if they were right all along.

I bring you neutral a formula based on past winners and you still don't want to listen and think you're right. What's the point?

Once again, it generally goes to a top seed because that's where the best player generally is. Lebron won it and his team was the 4th best. Why not a guy on the best 3 teams? Because Lebron was better. Kobe won it on the 3rd best team in the league, despite the Celtics having 9 more wins. Steve Nash won it despite the Suns having 54 wins, because no one thought they could do it without Amare.

Ok I see the confusion. When I was saying “a top” I wasn’t meaning literally “the” top seed. Was just a loose term for one of the top or best seeds in the conference, which is always top two.

As for your formula I didn’t really look at it before. So does that accurately predict past winners? I see it’s based off past winners but would be I Interested to see how previous years ranks turned out using the same formula.


Having said that I dunno how deep into advanced stats and stuff all the voters go. A lot of narrative goes into the vote, team record and then level of play and I assume a lot of voters look at pretty basic stats and advanced stats.

Luka is doing something kinda similar to Westbrook so the uniqueness of it isn’t there for the voters. He does have the narrative of being so young and him and the team really exceeding expectations so that could play a huge part.

I don’t think they’ll get a top 4 seed which imo will hurt his chances. But that’s just my prediction. We will see. He’s gonna get a lot of votes though.

He'll get a lot of votes but its like others have said if Mavs aren't 1 or 2 in the conference or Luka doesn't average a triple double then he's not winning. And even with averaging a triple double I think Westbrook has diminished it because obviously voters weren't impressed these last two seasons. The hate for Durant and sympathy for Westbrook had a lot to do with him winning but the main reason Westbrook won is because he averaged a triple-double which hadn't been done in 55 years. The season triple-double had always been this iconic stat(considering Oscar had been the only man to do it.) and its similar to the triple crown in baseball. A lot of older voters were impressed by that. Other than that the MVP always goes to someone on one of the top 2 seeds in the conference. Jordan put up 3,000 points in a season and Magic still ran away with the MVP in 87.

[Hephaestus]

When Lebron won it in 2012 it was a shortened lockout season, that was no normal season. Another exception

Kobe won it in 2008 because the Celtics had the big three, so no one single player could be credited for the teams' success like Kobe could, plus kobe had never won one before and the media felt bad that this could have been his last chance at an MVP.

Luka won't have any of that going for him against guys like Giannis, Harden, Lebron. They will all most likely have more wins, Harden and Especially Giannis will get the credit for the wins. Luka isn't winning MVP this season, trying to argue it seems nonsensical to me. He'll be an all-star and most likely all NBA but he isn't winning MVP.

The odds of him winning are still significative enough for him to be up there. No one is saying that HE WILL win it, only 20% of the season has been played.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

Here's your argument : "Exception, exception, exception, exception... This other guy CAN'T win if another [b]team has more wins!!!"[/b]

That's a gross oversimplification of what I said and yes I stand by it. Seeing that the overwhelming majority of MVP winners have literally come from a top-seeded team, the last two coming from the 1 seeded team in the league, it's safe and smart to assume, that's going to be the case again. Sorry i'm not a luka fanboy like you

You sound like a hater tho

[Vsauce12]

The odds of him winning are still significative enough for him to be up there. No one is saying that HE WILL win it, only 20% of the season has been played.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

Here's your argument : "Exception, exception, exception, exception... This other guy CAN'T win if another [b]team has more wins!!!"[/b]

That's a gross oversimplification of what I said and yes I stand by it. Seeing that the overwhelming majority of MVP winners have literally come from a top-seeded team, the last two coming from the 1 seeded team in the league, it's safe and smart to assume, that's going to be the case again. Sorry i'm not a luka fanboy like you

You sound like a hater tho

To a fanatic, anyone who doesn’t suck off their God is a hater, give me a break

[leolozon]

The vote did not “often” go elsewhere. It’s literally always a top 2 seed besides Westbrook.

You do realize that you changed your sentence from "top seed" to "top 2 seed" and acted as if I was wrong? That's just so weird that someone could change the premise and act as if they were right all along.

I bring you neutral a formula based on past winners and you still don't want to listen and think you're right. What's the point?

Once again, it generally goes to a top seed because that's where the best player generally is. Lebron won it and his team was the 4th best. Why not a guy on the best 3 teams? Because Lebron was better. Kobe won it on the 3rd best team in the league, despite the Celtics having 9 more wins. Steve Nash won it despite the Suns having 54 wins, because no one thought they could do it without Amare.

Ok I see the confusion. When I was saying “a top” I wasn’t meaning literally “the” top seed. Was just a loose term for one of the top or best seeds in the conference, which is always top two.

As for your formula I didn’t really look at it before. So does that accurately predict past winners? I see it’s based off past winners but would be I Interested to see how previous years ranks turned out using the same formula.

Having said that I dunno how deep into advanced stats and stuff all the voters go. A lot of narrative goes into the vote, team record and then level of play and I assume a lot of voters look at pretty basic stats and advanced stats.

Luka is doing something kinda similar to Westbrook so the uniqueness of it isn’t there for the voters. He does have the narrative of being so young and him and the team really exceeding expectations so that could play a huge part.

I don’t think they’ll get a top 4 seed which imo will hurt his chances. But that’s just my prediction. We will see. He’s gonna get a lot of votes though.

Yeah, I read top seed. Indeed, it generally goes to a top 2 seed. But it isn’t a rule. Giannis is leading right now and he will probably win it, I agree. But I think Luka is 2 and I think it makes no sense to completely disregard him. It’s just 20% of a season, so it’s probably just a waste of time to discuss it right now, but anyway.

Voters have shown that they can go outside the top 2 seed if something special is going. And I think we have an exception as of right now.

1- Luka in the first 16 games is performing better than Westbrook during his MVP season, as he’s actually incredibly efficient. He’s also leading the best offense in the league, while OKC was the 15th best offense. It’s not even comparable. Yeah, the triple double gave Westbrook the MVP. But if Luka keeps playing like that, there will be people bringing up that point.

2- The Mavs weren’t supposed to make the playoffs, so they will be a bigger surprise IF they get to near 55 wins, than the Bucks, the Rockets or the Lakers, 3 teams that people were expecting to be up there. I think it could influence people, just like it did with Nash in 2006.

3- He has a narrative for sure.

4- With load management, I think it’s a possibility that voters could be feeling that some teams aren’t trying to win as much and maybe they won’t give as much importance to wins as they would have before.

I can see people arguing about advanced stats. Old school vs new school. Wins are team stat, should it be the #1 most important thing when voting for an individual award? Probably not as the MVP often doesn’t go to a player on the team with the most wins. What’s the limit? Top 2 seed? Why not top 3 seed?

[LikeABosh]

50/14/6 no turnovers

Giannis negating the ground Luka made up yesterday lol

[B00Yah]

Definitely not Embiid.

MVPs don't put up an egg against a guy that can't jump, lol.

Soft AF fake tough guy.

[Coach Carter]

50/14/6 no turnovers

Giannis negating the ground Luka made up yesterday lol

Also no empty stats here, with khris out, also hill, close game, he had to put up those numbers

[Benedict_Boozer]

50/14/6 no turnovers

Giannis negating the ground Luka made up yesterday lol

Close this thread ~ guy is just a monster. Give the man his MVP.