76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[MrBigShot]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...you get the point.

We all know this is BS. Once he gets traded, he's playing very soon for that team. I'll make a wager with anyone on the other side he plays within a week once he gets traded

If his mental health issues are with being in and playing for Philly like reported then why would you be surprised if he played once the situation is resolved and he’s gone ?

Not liking a place and finding it to be a stressful environment is not the same thing as a diagnosable mental health concern. Diagnosable mental health concerns don't just go away the moment you leave an environment.

Dunno why it's so difficult for people to understand this concept; you can really tell who is and isn't very knowledgable about mental health in this thread. A mental health condition severe enough to prevent you from going to work indefinitely would affect numerous aspects of your life (appetite, fatigue, personal relationships, interest in hobbies ect...) and take significant time working with medical professionals to treat. If Simmons were traded tomorrow and immediately suited up to play, that would more or less prove that this whole thing was a ploy by him and Rich Paul.

This is legitimately one of the most shameful things i've ever seen in sports.

[TheNewEra]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...you get the point.

We all know this is BS. Once he gets traded, he's playing very soon for that team. I'll make a wager with anyone on the other side he plays within a week once he gets traded

If his mental health issues are with being in and playing for Philly like reported then why would you be surprised if he played once the situation is resolved and he’s gone ?

What are his 'mental health' issues with Philly? That there were comments made publicly after the Hawks series?

Is there anything else?

It could be that plus a number of things we just don’t no about until Ben Simmons or his representatives say something more.

[rickxdel]

Rich Paul's main concern is so obviously making sure Ben gets paid while sitting out as they strong-arm Philly for a trade. In the most recent report from the Athletic Paul keeps reiterating how the top priority is Ben's mental health while taking every opportunity to justify Ben continuing to be paid. Paul is even shamelessly challenging the Sixers org to call Ben out on his BS. Paul knows how sensitive people are about mental health nowadays and he's weaponizing it, smdh.

I wanted to point out a false equivalency he made to the John Wall situation, which he tried to compare to Ben's situation as a justification for Ben to keep getting paid:

Paul drew a contrast between the situation with Simmons and that of Houston Rockets guard John Wall, another of his clients, who is being paid by Houston while sitting out the season, even though he is healthy enough to play. “John is able to play, but Houston is OK using the (Collective Bargaining Agreement) to pay him not to play,” Paul said. “So which way is it? John is perfectly healthy and ready to play, and it’s OK in the CBA. We are being professional with both instances, but how can it go both ways? John and the Rockets have been professional about their situation, and we are also expecting the same with the 76ers.”

• In John Wall and Rockets situation there's a mutual agreement in place for Wall to not play despite being healthy, and still collect his money. Both parties are fine with the arrangement.
• In the BS situation Ben is physically ready to play but is claiming mental health issues as the reason he is not ready to play
• Ben is fine with not playing and collecting his pay, Sixers are not fine with it because they haven't received enough information to justify this
• The Sixers want to verify his claims and to be kept up to date on his progress

At the very least Ben Simmons should provide some type of confirmation from medical professionals who are not biased, stating he is mentally unfit to play basketball. The reports are he's been difficult and uncooperative with Philly in confirming this. My best judgement tells me he's likely milking the 'mental health' excuse for his personal gain, knowing the taboo around calling people out for this stuff even when theyre bs-ing the claims.

[TheNewEra]

If his mental health issues are with being in and playing for Philly like reported then why would you be surprised if he played once the situation is resolved and he’s gone ?

Not liking a place and finding it to be a stressful environment is not the same thing as a diagnosable mental health concern. Diagnosable mental health concerns don't just go away the moment you leave an environment.

Dunno why it's so difficult for people to understand this concept; you can really tell who is and isn't very knowledgable about mental health in this thread. A mental health condition severe enough to prevent you from going to work indefinitely would affect numerous aspects of your life and take time to treat.

Everything being released has said Simmons wants out of this situation both personally and professionally it’s on his mind to get out. He doesn’t need a severe case of anything to validate how he feels and why in the world would someone want to wait until the breaking point before taking action ?

[Texas Chuck]

he would immediately be the highest paid player on the team and immediately deemed the franchise player based on his salary alone. .

Is John Wall Houston's franchise player?
Is Derrick Favors, the Thunders?
Kevin Love, the Cavs?
KP, the Mavs?
John Collins, the Hawks?
Gordon Hayward the Hornets?
Gary Harris, the Magic?


I think you get the idea. Depending on where he goes he absolutely could be seen as the franchise player, but if he went to Portland he wouldn't be. Minnesota he wouldn't be. Boston he wouldn't be. All teams with reported interest.

Was Scottie Pippen not valuable because of Mike?

[Cavsfansince84]

Rumor has it that Morey won't be content until Simmons truly is mentally destroyed and is traded for a second rd pick and a bag of chips. Its personal with him now.

[Myth]

Not liking a place and finding it to be a stressful environment is not the same thing as a diagnosable mental health concern. Diagnosable mental health concerns don't just go away the moment you leave an environment.

Dunno why it's so difficult for people to understand this concept; you can really tell who is and isn't very knowledgable about mental health in this thread. A mental health condition severe enough to prevent you from going to work indefinitely would affect numerous aspects of your life and take time to treat.

Everything being released has said Simmons wants out of this situation both personally and professionally it’s on his mind to get out. He doesn’t need a severe case of anything to validate how he feels and why in the world would someone want to wait until the breaking point before taking action ?

That is a different discussion from needing a mental health leave as they requested. I think everybody generally agrees it makes sense to try to trade him. In the mean time, he is under contract and is refusing to abide by his contract. He then requested a mental health leave to avoid fines for not fulfilling his contract, and when you do that, you need to provide documentation to justify the mental health leave. This is pretty standard stuff here.

[ReddoverKobe]

Rumor has it that Morey won't be content until Simmons truly is mentally destroyed and is traded for a second rd pick and a bag of chips. Its personal with him now.

This is of course not true. But man have the 76ers mess this up. It's kind of hilarious to be honest.

[CIN-C-STAR]

The Simmons-Klutch argument seems to boil down to this: Not getting everything Simmons wants is the impetus of his mental health problems, therefore the 76ers have to give Ben everything he wants or his mental health problems are their fault...
WTH?!? That's like something a kid would come up with
By this definition anyone could play the mental health card to get anything they want.
Sorry but that's not how mental health works. If your mental health is so fragile that you have to get your way on everything regardless of how others involved feel, the problem is your mental health not that you're not getting what you want.
Ben should definitely just retire at this point and work on his mental health. It's a lot of money but you can't put a price on health and happiness.
He can always try for a comeback in 4 years if he's better by then and misses the game.

[rickxdel]

Not liking a place and finding it to be a stressful environment is not the same thing as a diagnosable mental health concern. Diagnosable mental health concerns don't just go away the moment you leave an environment.

Dunno why it's so difficult for people to understand this concept; you can really tell who is and isn't very knowledgable about mental health in this thread. A mental health condition severe enough to prevent you from going to work indefinitely would affect numerous aspects of your life and take time to treat.

Everything being released has said Simmons wants out of this situation both personally and professionally it’s on his mind to get out. He doesn’t need a severe case of anything to validate how he feels and why in the world would someone want to wait until the breaking point before taking action ?

No he doesn't need anything to justify how he feels, but he needs evidence and cooperation provided to the Sixers if he's going to claim he's mentally unfit to play while still receiving his pay

If it turns out there is no diagnosable mental health condition that justifies him not playing, and there is no physical injury either then guess what? It doesn't matter how badly Ben feels about wanting out of Philly, he is contractually obliged to play and participate in team activities and if he doesn't fining him is completely justified.

[Nuntius]

It’s comical how some on here defend him like oh maybe he does have a mental illness. Guess what so do a lot of other Americans and they can go sit at home for months while still collecting a paycheck waiting to go another job.

And that's pretty much the reason why I'm "defending" him. Because the reality is that every worker should have the protection of a strong union that protects their rights.

If everyone did what BS is doing - society wouldn't function. Everyone would just claim mental illness so they wouldn't have to work and get paid. We both know he's full of it

Society would actually function much better if worker's rights were respected and everyday people weren't trashed on their job on the daily.

[Yoshun]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...you get the point.

We all know this is BS. Once he gets traded, he's playing very soon for that team. I'll make a wager with anyone on the other side he plays within a week once he gets traded

If his mental health issues are with being in and playing for Philly like reported then why would you be surprised if he played once the situation is resolved and he’s gone ?

Not liking a place and finding it to be a stressful environment is not the same thing as a diagnosable mental health concern. Diagnosable mental health concerns don't just go away the moment you leave an environment.

Your environment has a significant impact on your mental health, whether you have a "diagnosable mental illness" or not. A person with a diagnosable mental illness may experience a significant increase in symptoms if they are in an environment that is highly stressful or otherwise not conducive to good mental health. Leaving that environment may not cure their mental illness or make it go away, but it can result in a significant reduction in symptoms allowing them to function closer to their normal.

[Nuntius]

No way they accept mental health reports second hand from Rich Paul and make decisions based on that. If Ben Simmons wants to supply documentation about his mental health concerns to justify not being fined, I'm sure that is fine by the 76ers since that is what they were asking for. Ben Simmons and Rich Paul don't get to withhold mental health information and request changes based on Simmons' mental health at the same time. It just doesn't work that way.

How about the mental health specialist that they themselves recommended? Do they accept reports from him? Because Simmons has met with a mental health specialist that the 76ers themselves recommended -> https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264668/Ben-Simmons-Meets-With-76ers-Recommended-Mental-Health-Specialist

So, yeah, not sure what you're trying to say here.

1. Ben Simmons only met with a 76ers appointed mental health professional one time so far, for one hour this past Monday November 8th.

2. This meeting just happened to occur right after the team started fining him again due to a lack of communication and clarity on his progress over the past two weeks despite the team's attempts to reach out

3. Rich Paul himself said that one meeting with the Philly therapist was not enough to make any sort of recommendation, direct quote: "He’s not there yet. How can a doctor, who has only met with Ben once, say, ‘Ben is mentally ready to play?’ So do we keep digging on him, or help him?” so what is your point about 'How about a mental health specialist they themselves recommended?" In order for Sixers to accept that specialist's opinion #4 must happen

4. Sixers want Ben to continue working with the therapist they provided and provide documentation of progress, not much to ask for someone who isn't performing the duties his job requires yet still wants to receive full pay. We shall see if Ben actually complies this time

Seems to me Ben clearly wants out of Philly, doesn't want to play for them while still getting paid. Wants to have his cake and eat it too.

He 100% wants out of Philly. I don't think that anyone is saying otherwise. Whether he wants to still get paid remains while not playing remains to be seen. His agent implied otherwise in that article but I generally do not trust Rich Paul so what he says doesn't matter all that much to me.

It is still important to note that the 76ers have elected to ignore the NBPA-affiliated therapist that Simmons was seeing and have instead insisted on Simmons seeing the therapist of their choosing. They pulled the same **** with Markelle Fultz and it wasn't pretty for them. We'll see if they want to continue down that path.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Not liking a place and finding it to be a stressful environment is not the same thing as a diagnosable mental health concern. Diagnosable mental health concerns don't just go away the moment you leave an environment.

Dunno why it's so difficult for people to understand this concept; you can really tell who is and isn't very knowledgable about mental health in this thread. A mental health condition severe enough to prevent you from going to work indefinitely would affect numerous aspects of your life and take time to treat.

Everything being released has said Simmons wants out of this situation both personally and professionally it’s on his mind to get out. He doesn’t need a severe case of anything to validate how he feels and why in the world would someone want to wait until the breaking point before taking action ?

this is on Ben, what he wants to prioritize
- his mental wellbeing, then he can stay home and ignore the Sixers' requests and pay the consequencea for it. He would also show that he's serious about it
- his paychecks, then he must find a common ground. He either plays or he provides clear evidence he can't while also working to get back to playing

the attitude of the general public towards him would completely change in both of those cases. But he can't expect of both manage things his own way cutting off the team and keep collecting paychecks.

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[Nuntius]

No way they accept mental health reports second hand from Rich Paul and make decisions based on that. If Ben Simmons wants to supply documentation about his mental health concerns to justify not being fined, I'm sure that is fine by the 76ers since that is what they were asking for. Ben Simmons and Rich Paul don't get to withhold mental health information and request changes based on Simmons' mental health at the same time. It just doesn't work that way.

How about the mental health specialist that they themselves recommended? Do they accept reports from him? Because Simmons has met with a mental health specialist that the 76ers themselves recommended -> https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264668/Ben-Simmons-Meets-With-76ers-Recommended-Mental-Health-Specialist

So, yeah, not sure what you're trying to say here.

There was other reports that he sought an outside mental health specialist. The link you provided indicates that Ben Simmons is repeatedly not cooperating, so yeah, not sure what you're trying to say here. So whether he has an outside mental health professional and they aren't supplying evidence that he requires time away from the team for mental health reasons or he is simply not cooperating with the provider the team connected him to, either way this further justifies that he is claiming mental health issues but not supplying enough info or meeting criteria to justify his leave. You don't get to claim mental health issues and require accommodations without a professional backing it up.

He has been receiving mental health help from an NBPA-affiliated therapist ever since this summer, yes. The specialist that the 76ers indicated is a new development which seems to indicate that the Sixers aren't willing to trust the NBPA-affiliated therapist. Which is not weird to see at all. The Sixers also didn't trust independent therapists when Markelle Fultz used one and got a diagnosis that the Sixers disagreed with. The Sixers were proved wrong in Fultz's case since the Orlando medical team confirmed that his injury was serious when he was traded to them (remember, the Sixers kept clearing an obviously-injured Fultz). My guess is that they'll be proved wrong once again.

[TheNewEra]

Dunno why it's so difficult for people to understand this concept; you can really tell who is and isn't very knowledgable about mental health in this thread. A mental health condition severe enough to prevent you from going to work indefinitely would affect numerous aspects of your life and take time to treat.

Everything being released has said Simmons wants out of this situation both personally and professionally it’s on his mind to get out. He doesn’t need a severe case of anything to validate how he feels and why in the world would someone want to wait until the breaking point before taking action ?

That is a different discussion from needing a mental health leave as they requested. I think everybody generally agrees it makes sense to try to trade him. In the mean time, he is under contract and is refusing to abide by his contract. He then requested a mental health leave to avoid fines for not fulfilling his contract, and when you do that, you need to provide documentation to justify the mental health leave. This is pretty standard stuff here.

i do believe Simmons should be prepared for the fines since the situation has become petty on both sides but I don’t believe it’s out of bounds for him and his agency to stop these fines.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

He 100% wants out of Philly. I don't think that anyone is saying otherwise. Whether he wants to still get paid remains while not playing remains to be seen.

just wow

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[TheNewEra]

If his mental health issues are with being in and playing for Philly like reported then why would you be surprised if he played once the situation is resolved and he’s gone ?

Not liking a place and finding it to be a stressful environment is not the same thing as a diagnosable mental health concern. Diagnosable mental health concerns don't just go away the moment you leave an environment.

Thank you.

It shouldn’t be some debate on if he was faking if he moves teams and feels better when it’s the whole point he has pushed this entire time

Your environment has a significant impact on your mental health, whether you have a "diagnosable mental illness" or not. A person with a diagnosable mental illness may experience a significant increase in symptoms if they are in an environment that is highly stressful or otherwise not conducive to good mental health. Leaving that environment may not cure their mental illness or make it go away, but it can result in a significant reduction in symptoms allowing them to function closer to their normal.

[Nuntius]

the attitude of the general public towards him would completely change in both of those cases. But he can't expect of both manage things his own way cutting off the team and keep collecting paychecks.

Tell that to Markelle Fultz and Royce White. The fact is that the stigma against mental health is still quite strong in society and most people (and businesses and organizations and so on) are biased against people who struggle with mental health issues.

[Nuntius]

He 100% wants out of Philly. I don't think that anyone is saying otherwise. Whether he wants to still get paid remains while not playing remains to be seen.

just wow

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