If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

AaronB · Post #681 » by **AaronB** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:41 pm

Vox Populi wrote:Tier 1 - Franz, Cade, Mobley, Green
Tier 2 - Giddey, Sengun, Barnes, Kuminga, Suggs

Tier 1: Franz, Giddy and Sengun
Tier 2: Mobley, Barnes
Tier "wait and see due to injury": Cade, Suggs

turnaroundJ · Post #682 » by **turnaroundJ** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:22 pm

Same for me but I'd add Green to Tier 2. When was the last time the top 3 draft picks ended up as the 3 best players in a draft anyway? Probably never, maybe 2016 but Sabonis and Siakam came from that draft as well.

AaronB · Post #683 » by **AaronB** » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:36 pm

turnaroundJ wrote:Same for me but I'd add Green to Tier 2. When was the last time the top 3 draft picks ended up as the 3 best players in a draft anyway? Probably never, maybe 2016 but Sabonis and Siakam came from that draft as well.

Yep, forgot to put Green in tier 2.

I said much earlier in this thread that I thought Sengun would be better than Green.

It looks like I was underestimating him even back then.

LBJKB24MJ23 · Post #684 » by **LBJKB24MJ23** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:43 pm

AaronB wrote:
Vox Populi wrote:Tier 1 - Franz, Cade, Mobley, Green
Tier 2 - Giddey, Sengun, Barnes, Kuminga, Suggs

Tier 1: Franz, Giddy and Sengun
Tier 2: Mobley, Barnes
Tier "wait and see due to injury": Cade, Suggs

Suggs' best could be in the Marcus Smart role now - focus on defense and anything from him offensively is bonus. Franz and Banchero has taken over the go-to guys - and if Isaacs comes back better and as the 3rd option.

I think its safe to say Suggs is not in the same tier as the other guys.

tooler · Post #685 » by **tooler** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:28 pm

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
AaronB wrote:
Vox Populi wrote:Tier 1 - Franz, Cade, Mobley, Green
Tier 2 - Giddey, Sengun, Barnes, Kuminga, Suggs

Tier 1: Franz, Giddy and Sengun
Tier 2: Mobley, Barnes
Tier "wait and see due to injury": Cade, Suggs

Suggs' best could be in the Marcus Smart role now - focus on defense and anything from him offensively is bonus. Franz and Banchero has taken over the go-to guys - and if Isaacs comes back better and as the 3rd option.

I think its safe to say Suggs is not in the same tier as the other guys.

A likeable Marcus Smart is my dream for Suggs. Step one is to stop playing football on a basketball court.

Vampirate · Post #686 » by **Vampirate** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:43 pm

The New Year has started to make this discussion pretty interesting.

First of all, Franz has easily been the best player over the season overall.

However, as of late, Giddey has risen his efficiency from the ashes.

Since the New year hit, Barnes has been not only scoring more efficiently on his shots, but has been getting to the FT line more consistently at a much higher rate than before. This is including last year. His FT stats have actually been improving.

It will be interesting to see where all 3 players will land at the end of the year.

As for the rest, Green has a ton of potential clearly, but hasn't seemed to put it all together yet. He's getting to the FT line at a higher rate than last year. Overall his numbers resemble Demar in the 13/14 season.

Cade I can't even grade yet due to the injury.

Mobley is very difficult to judge, he helps his team a lot for what his team needs of him clearly, and the Cavs are the best team of the bunch, however he clearly has the best quality of teammates. He has definitely improved in some areas (overall efficiency), but taken a step back in others. I wonder if Cav fans think he can reach being a 2nd option in his prime.

Sengun looks to be a good scoring Center in the league with some passing skills. it's possible he'll get into Sabonis territory later.

Most of the other picks either don't have a large enough role to judge, are more of a specialist, or maybe injured.

OrlMagic05 · Post #687 » by **OrlMagic05** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:05 pm

tooler wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
AaronB wrote:
Tier 1: Franz, Giddy and Sengun
Tier 2: Mobley, Barnes
Tier "wait and see due to injury": Cade, Suggs

Suggs' best could be in the Marcus Smart role now - focus on defense and anything from him offensively is bonus. Franz and Banchero has taken over the go-to guys - and if Isaacs comes back better and as the 3rd option.

I think its safe to say Suggs is not in the same tier as the other guys.

A likeable Marcus Smart is my dream for Suggs. Step one is to stop playing football on a basketball court.[/quote]

This is it! Sugg plays football which is why he is always injured. I have never seen a guy play as rough as him lol

Jadoogar · Post #688 » by **Jadoogar** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:08 pm

Tier 1 - Mobley, Franz
Tier 2 - Barnes, Sengun, Giddey
Tier 3 - Green, Kuminga, Cade (1 year loss of development is going to hurt)

Could jump up - Herb Jones, Zaire Williams (he's got potential), Bones Hyland, Jalen Suggs

orlando_joe · Post #689 » by **orlando_joe** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:00 pm

tooler wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
AaronB wrote:
Tier 1: Franz, Giddy and Sengun
Tier 2: Mobley, Barnes
Tier "wait and see due to injury": Cade, Suggs

Suggs' best could be in the Marcus Smart role now - focus on defense and anything from him offensively is bonus. Franz and Banchero has taken over the go-to guys - and if Isaacs comes back better and as the 3rd option.

I think its safe to say Suggs is not in the same tier as the other guys.

A likeable Marcus Smart is my dream for Suggs. Step one is to stop playing football on a basketball court.

but the attempt for td pass to franz that franz missed last second layup was so sweet..lol

toooskies · Post #690 » by **toooskies** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:59 pm

Vampirate wrote: I wonder if Cav fans think he can reach being a 2nd option in his prime.

The question is whether he can get strong while staying quick. He's not a first-step iso guy from the perimeter and he's not strong enough to post up guys that play PF or C. How he'll develop physically will determine whether he's a long-term scorer. Otherwise, his shot isn't consistent enough that you want him shooting midrange fadeaways.

But he's a great processor of the game and so he'll thrive as a connector, finisher, short roller. Definitely second all-star range at worst, especially if he can improve his screens. They're better than last year.

Tripod · Post #691 » by **Tripod** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:24 pm

This draft was deep with not 1 guy way ahead of others. It's quite likely that each year, a different guy is viewed as a the best. Nothing wrong with that. You have multiple teams that would not trade their guy for anyone else. Lots of teams happy with what they have.

Enjoy the influx of talent from that draft class.

j-ragg · Post #692 » by **j-ragg** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:34 am

Cade
Franz
Mobley
Sengun
Barnes

QingJames · Post #693 » by **QingJames** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:55 pm

j-ragg wrote:Cade
Franz
Mobley
Sengun
Barnes

In that order?

Cade has done nothing to justify being taken over Franz, Mobley, Barnes or Sengun in a re-draft.

Vox Populi · Post #694 » by **Vox Populi** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:12 pm

QingJames wrote:
j-ragg wrote:Cade
Franz
Mobley
Sengun
Barnes

In that order?

Cade has done nothing to justify being taken over Franz, Mobley, Barnes or Sengun in a re-draft.

Don't you think it's too early to only consider what they have done and ignore possible potential? One year after the 1996 draft, people could have said Kobe Bryant has done nothing to justify being taken over Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Antoine Walker, Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Marcus Camby in a re-draft.

QingJames · Post #695 » by **QingJames** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:02 pm

Vox Populi wrote:
QingJames wrote:
j-ragg wrote:Cade
Franz
Mobley
Sengun
Barnes

In that order?

Cade has done nothing to justify being taken over Franz, Mobley, Barnes or Sengun in a re-draft.

Don't you think it's too early to only consider what they have done and ignore possible potential? One year after the 1996 draft, people could have said Kobe Bryant has done nothing to justify being taken over Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Antoine Walker, Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Marcus Camby in a re-draft.

That's fair, but it's not as though Cade is this uber-athletic raw talent. We pretty much know what he is, what his issues are, and what his strengths are. He's a secondary playmaker with a slow first step who has had very dubious shooting and turnover numbers on the NBA stage. It's not just about injuries - from what we've seen of his on-court play, he looks to have a significantly lower ceiling than Mobley, Franz and Barnes.

UcanUwill · Post #696 » by **UcanUwill** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:09 pm

Vox Populi wrote:
QingJames wrote:
j-ragg wrote:Cade
Franz
Mobley
Sengun
Barnes

In that order?

Cade has done nothing to justify being taken over Franz, Mobley, Barnes or Sengun in a re-draft.

Don't you think it's too early to only consider what they have done and ignore possible potential? One year after the 1996 draft, people could have said Kobe Bryant has done nothing to justify being taken over Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Antoine Walker, Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Marcus Camby in a re-draft.

I agree, but I dont agree with your earlier take on Green still being in top 1 tier. Yeah, he was number 2 pick and there is much to it, but he has been kind of exactly what his skeptics thought he would be. Sill very young, I am just not putting him in tier 1 anymore, even thought it has been early to judge.

Time for Change · Post #697 » by **Time for Change** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:57 pm

Man, last year I thought the 2021 draft was stacked and on pace to produce half a dozen all-stars, a DPOY and a scoring champ (over their careers, not this season). Now it’s looking like a weaker draft class with bunch of role players and maybe one fringe all-star.

JonFromVA · Post #698 » by **JonFromVA** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:35 pm

Time for Change wrote:Man, last year I thought the 2021 draft was stacked and on pace to produce half a dozen all-stars, a DPOY and a scoring champ (over their careers, not this season). Now it’s looking like a weaker draft class with bunch of role players and maybe one fringe all-star.

Hmm... considering the ROY averaged 15/7/3 it was a safe bet this class was going to need time..

It's fun to hype rooks, but we don't really understand their trajectory.

And as for that potential DPOY guy, let me tell you as someone who watches him game in and game out, he's constantly doing amazing things on the defensive end - not just for his age, but period. But there's still limitation on Evan until/unless he gets even bigger/stronger and hopefully becomes more resistant to the day in day out bumps & bruises that take a toll. None of that changed in 12 months.

rocketsfan100 · Post #699 » by **rocketsfan100** » Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:08 am

Green has slipped . Franz has gained on Mobley

aroc23 · Post #700 » by **aroc23** » Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:23 am

Barnes had his struggles early, but over the last 10 he has been averaging (per game):

18 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists and 3 blocks/steals on 47% shooting (still needs to get his efficiency up).

He still has moments, usually in the 4th quarter, where he looks like Giannis-lite. He has not been as consistent as Franz and Mobley, but when he is at his best his all-around game is insane. He might still have the most overall upside. A 21 year old 6'9'' wing who is already averaging 5 assists per game on 21% usage rate while looking dominant on offense in flashes is super valuable.