Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV (Must read Post 1)

[Bandit King]

People still ordering takeout even though it is not the smartest decision to make these days. I doubt if it is safe!

[LKN]

Cuomo has really been great.

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[OkcSinceSGA]

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[OkcSinceSGA]

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[Bandit King]

Masks, this covers it all think

Sadly this doesn't cover everything. Unless I missed it, VERY BOLD needs to be guidelines on HOW to properly put on, wear, remove, and dispose of any mask -- and the when/timing of changing out and properly disposing of certain kinds of masks (surgical vs. N95).

If any of these are done incorrectly, masks will INCREASE the rate of transmission of CV (and any transmissible disease).

This is no different for people wearing gloves or other protective devices. Next time you are at your dentist, watch their gloved hands touch so many damn things, than back in your mouth -- it will gross you out. Of course better offices wrap handles/surfaces (but need to change them out between patients) and change out gloves OFTEN.

Also no different than all washing hands is NOT effective for cleaning hands -- the how you do it is more important (at least 20 seconds, type of soap, full scrub coverage, etc.). If you don't believe me, google how surgeons TRAIN to scrub into surgery -- all to prevent just one contaminate for 'simple' infection prevention (simple in the sense not a complex virus like CV).

Protective wear (masks, gloves, eye protection) do NOT give a cloak of immunity from the virus!!!

This details everything I believe.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

I bet some people will reuse the mask for at least a week!

[NoDopeOnSundays]

People still ordering takeout even though it is not the smartest decision to make these days. I doubt if it is safe!

If it's hot food then the packaging and plastic bag are the most dangerous things, and definitely don't use any supplied utensils.


I wouldn't do it, but they claim the heat from the food should kill the virus.

[Bandit King]

People still ordering takeout even though it is not the smartest decision to make these days. I doubt if it is safe!

If it's hot food then the packaging and plastic bag are the most dangerous things, and definitely don't use any supplied utensils.


I wouldn't do it, but they claim the heat from the food should kill the virus.

Still people getting sick in Florida and that's a warm place!

[Courtside]

Further to the discussion on the lack of adequate N95 respirators, this is the CDC's own study on the possible needs in the case of a flu pandemic.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/60/suppl_1/S42/356585

The numbers are not counted in the millions, but in the billions. The large US population would devour millions of masks per hour.



They assume that surgical masks would be used only for patient intake and secondary protections - no civilian use - so those numbers come in lower:



So we're talking about hundreds of millions of surgical masks, and billions of N95 respirators, yet the stockpiles of either were somewhere around 1-5% of what these recommendations call for (depending on severity of scenario, vs the 39 million N95s that were apparently available.

[Dirk]

Sadly this doesn't cover everything. Unless I missed it, VERY BOLD needs to be guidelines on HOW to properly put on, wear, remove, and dispose of any mask -- and the when/timing of changing out and properly disposing of certain kinds of masks (surgical vs. N95).

If any of these are done incorrectly, masks will INCREASE the rate of transmission of CV (and any transmissible disease).

This is no different for people wearing gloves or other protective devices. Next time you are at your dentist, watch their gloved hands touch so many damn things, than back in your mouth -- it will gross you out. Of course better offices wrap handles/surfaces (but need to change them out between patients) and change out gloves OFTEN.

Also no different than all washing hands is NOT effective for cleaning hands -- the how you do it is more important (at least 20 seconds, type of soap, full scrub coverage, etc.). If you don't believe me, google how surgeons TRAIN to scrub into surgery -- all to prevent just one contaminate for 'simple' infection prevention (simple in the sense not a complex virus like CV).

Protective wear (masks, gloves, eye protection) do NOT give a cloak of immunity from the virus!!!

This details everything I believe.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

I bet some people will reuse the mask for at least a week!

Health organizations discourage the use of masks for some reasons.

1. There is a SHORTAGE of masks. World Wide.

Literally, every other country is begging the population not to use masks unless they have symptoms/are infected. They are asking the private sector and people to donate masks to hospitals.

PARIS — France has ordered 250 million surgical face masks to ease an acute shortage nationwide that has drawn anger from frontline doctors and threats from police unions to walk off the job as the coronavirus outbreak worsens.

Health Minister Olivier Veran said the order had been placed with French and foreign suppliers, and he also promised more tests for suspected coronavirus cases.

“I want to tell the French people, especially healthcare professionals, that I understand and share their expectations, and sometimes their anger,” Veran told a news conference.

The government would launch a review into the shortage of protective gear at a later time, he added.

“We’ll learn lessons in due course about how we prepared our country for a threat which, I remind you, is the first public health crisis in a century.”

France has been under virtual lockdown since Tuesday with citizens allowed out of the their homes only to buy groceries, go to work, exercise alone or seek medical care.

The government has said it will extend the initial two-week confinement period if needed.

There have been 12,612 cases of coronavirus in France, and 450 deaths.

The pandemic has triggered a massive surge in demand for protective gear in France and neighboring European countries including Italy and Spain. China, where the virus originated, and where countless factories were shut down, accounts for more than half the global production of masks, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).

2. They claim people don't use them properly and will get infected anyway.

3. Folks with a mask probably think they're 100% protected and won't respect social distancing as much.

[azcatz11]

Boeing is a lock to get bailed out...they have too many govt contracts. Ted Cruz is just saying that to make himself look better

[Dirk]

Further to the discussion on the lack of adequate N95 respirators, this is the CDC's own study on the possible needs in the case of a flu pandemic.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/60/suppl_1/S42/356585

The numbers are not counted in the millions, but in the billions. The large US population would devour millions of masks per hour.



They assume that surgical masks would be used only for patient intake and secondary protections - no civilian use - so those numbers come in lower:



So we're talking about hundreds of millions of surgical masks, and billions of N95 respirators, yet the stockpiles of either were somewhere around 1-5% of what these recommendations call for (depending on severity of scenario, vs the 39 million N95s that were apparently available.

Since we're going really in depth.

This is the UK's guidelines for health workers.
When to use a surgical face mask or FFP3 respirator
When caring for patients with suspected or confirmed COVID-19
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874310/PHE_11606_When_to_use_face_mask_or_FFP3_02.pdf

[bwgood77]

Those are strictly one-day use only. Remember those all too well during the HK SARS crisis. We were told to dispose of them every few hours, but we had lots of masks at the time. They used to get so smelly after only a few hours, which you will soon find out. Still maintain social distancing as they protect others from you (to some degree), as opposed to you being protected from others.

Yeah, I knew they were one day. I figured I would probably on wear if things got dire when I go to grocery store or something and take it off when I come out. So if I only wore it for a half hour, I didn't know if I could wear it a few more times and be ok. I currently have extremely limited contact with anyone..working from home 95% (and go into office when no one else is there) and just go to get groceries...it's just me and my dog here.

Weird story. I’ve been going to Ocean beach a bunch lately with my girlfriend and our dog. At Ocean Beach you can bring your dogs and there are literally hundreds of other dogs and people around. We would always would eat at this crowded restaurant packed with people and dogs for breakfast first. One time after breakfast and walking along the beach I got the worst diarrhea of my life. Was sick for a few days after. This was sometime in February. Anyways, we also have an elderly mastiff as well as our young bulldog and she couldn’t go with us. But soon after she starting coughing and hacking constantly. We took her to the vet at they did an exam and said probably congestive heart failure and offered about a $1000 in tests which we declined. She has just gotten to the point where she can’t climb up the stairs and now only gets up two to three times a day. She’s fading fast. She’s also constantly shivering. We are giving her medicine for the pain and cough which seems to help.

Is there any possibility that she has Covid?

The timing is really really suspicious to me.

That's scary. Sorry to hear that. Also interesting you mention Ocean Beach. I used to take my dog to Ocean Beach in San Diego all the time...is that they one you are at? I think there is one in SF too, but that one is probably more locked down.

But I feel for you. It's been just me and my dog for the most part for the better part of 10 years, and I get worried he gets sick. When I thought I could have Covid 2 weeks ago and my lungs were in big time pain, I hadn't researched it yet, and looked up the symptoms, and they were spot on. Second thing I researched was if you can give it to your dog.

I have been monitoring. One dog with symptoms had a mild case a while back, and more recently I read about one more. But I don't think there is any real evidence that it passes from humans, and if it was a real thing...a big thing that was happening a lot, I'm sure we'd hear a lot more about it....unless they can typically battle it for a lot longer and it still hasn't hit. Though I think I've read about where they have tested a number of dogs and they all test negative (can't be sure but think so).

But again, it really sucks to hear that is happening. The symptoms to sound suspicious to hear about.

[ProfessorJM]

What's interesting to me is that there doesn't seem to be much of a correlation between incidence and testing absence of extreme social isolation measures. Canada has been one of the top countries re testing per capita but has the same 33% per day growth rate as virtually everyone else. The only places that have avoided those increases (i.e. China post lockdown, Japan, Vietnam, etc.) are all practicing social isolation/distancing, and are also wearing masks.

If you've been to Japan, you'll know why. There's a good reason their birth numbers are so low.

Completely agree having lived there a few times for short stints in the past. Despite the population density of Tokyo, it doesn't shock me that they could manage a large and quick acceptance through societal compliance and social distancing. (the latter is already more common naturally than Americans would likely realize)

[bwgood77]

I agree with Dems we need increased unemployment for 6 months. The current $1800 max for California is a joke. That's about 60% of my bills. Also agree with Dems that disability should be increased $200 in this crises for those that can't even work.

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It's always likely right around the same $ of avg salary of a state.

State unemployment right now last six months. So they have time to figure that out. They pass a bill to get a check, people file for unemployment. You're just going to have to probably get rid of a $680 month car or whatever it is during a time like this if you lose your job and have to reduce expenses.

People will have it worse.

I wonder if some apartment complexes will reduce rates to try and keep people from moving out.

I know many mortage/note holders are suspending payments...that is coming from the banks...but the banks have to stay liquid too....I was checking the ones I have accounts at and they have pretty beefed up balance sheets....at least Capital One does.

[Dirk]

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People were claiming it was not airborne a month ago really do not comprehend science. Technically while it is not airborne by accepted definition, it is essentially airborne and can travel short distance, slightly more with air flow. Its really called aerosol. For example, fog is an aerosol. If you are in a bus with a symptomatic person for 30 minutes, you are at serious risk of infection.

On that note, freshly published article.

The coronavirus is spread through droplets. Smith explained that, if you look at a slow-motion picture of a sneeze, those droplets can travel 3 to 6 feet in the air. Because of this, most people who get infected are close contacts of the sick person, such as family.

But she said it’s believed to end up in the air if “aerosolized,” such as through a medical procedure like intubation. Smith said this is one reason medical professionals are particularly at risk.

Smith said preliminary studies show that the virus can live on cardboard for about 24 hours and on plastic for about three days.

Smith said that it’s likely that the virus lives about as long on paper as cardboard. She advised putting your mail in a basket, rather than on the kitchen counter, or maybe waiting a day to open it.

In theory, she said, there is less virus on these surfaces than if you came into more direct contact with a sick person. Think of it this way: If someone coughs and sneezes on your kitchen table, they’re depositing a lot of virus, and the mucus protects the virus from drying out. But if you touch it, then you touch other surfaces, you will “dilute” the virus, so there is less total virus on those surfaces. However, scientists don’t yet know what constitutes an “infectious dose” of the new coronavirus — that is, how many viral particles are required to make a person sick. Smith said this varies a lot among different viruses.

Dr. Tara Smith, a professor at Kent State University’s College of Public Health
https://thecourier.com/coronavirus/2020/03/21/a-scientific-look-at-coronavirus-spread-2/

I have been thinking of adding a FAQ type post on the OP to clarify some of the most common questions we have, but generally, feels like the virus is still too young to have "final answers".

[Pharmcat]

Boeing is a lock to get bailed out...they have too many govt contracts. Ted Cruz is just saying that to make himself look better

its BS they get a bailout considering all their stock buybacks and cutting costs on that Max program. They should go to their investors to get more money. These corporations decry socialism except when they need it for themselves.

[ItsDanger]

Regarding masks, seems to me there is not enough precautions being taken in long term care facilities. In Canada, we are up 18 deaths, at least 12 of which are connected to 2 care centers. Need more discussion in protecting seniors especially over 70 yrs.

[bwgood77]

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Screw Disney. Most greedy company on the planet.

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That's not a bad offer from them. People can buy these notes and earn 3.5% to 4.7% in interest, depending on length. It's a hell of a lot better than any savings account pays and if you have money in mutual funds or stock market...this could be a much much safer bet to stick some money into.

[Swish1906]

People still ordering takeout even though it is not the smartest decision to make these days. I doubt if it is safe!

If it's hot food then the packaging and plastic bag are the most dangerous things, and definitely don't use any supplied utensils.


I wouldn't do it, but they claim the heat from the food should kill the virus.

Get the takeout/Delivery food, put it on the sink, put the food on plates, throw all the containers straight in the trash. Clean the sink, wash your hands and eat then

[OkcSinceSGA]

I agree with Dems we need increased unemployment for 6 months. The current $1800 max for California is a joke. That's about 60% of my bills. Also agree with Dems that disability should be increased $200 in this crises for those that can't even work.

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It's always likely right around the same $ of avg salary of a state.

State unemployment right now last six months. So they have time to figure that out. They pass a bill to get a check, people file for unemployment. You're just going to have to probably get rid of a $680 month car or whatever it is during a time like this if you lose your job and have to reduce expenses.

People will have it worse.

I wonder if some apartment complexes will reduce rates to try and keep people from moving out.

I know many mortage/note holders are suspending payments...that is coming from the banks...but the banks have to stay liquid too....I was checking the ones I have accounts at and they have pretty beefed up balance sheets....at least Capital One does.

Does the eviction protection cover my apartment??

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