2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3)

[ConSarnit]

Yeap It's Mobley and not even close. It's like Kyrie and Derrick Williams in their Rookie season.

Sir, this is an NBA board, not a Wendy’s.

Marshon Brooks received more ROY votes than Derrick Williams.

[TheLand13]

No one is saying Barnes doesn't have a chance. He could have an incredible second half of the season to the point where Mobley's defense puts it out of reach. All we are saying is that right now, there is no "Mobley vs Barnes" conversation. There is no two way dance for the title. Mobley has been the undisputed best rookie of the NBA season so far. That can change. To even pretend that Barnes has an argument right now though is laughable.

Nobody's saying Barnes doesn't have a chance but if you claim Barnes has an argument you're a clown. Got it. Completely reasonable take which definitely isn't marginalizing how much better Barnes is on offense than Mobley at all. Mobley really isn't close at all to Barnes on that end and if he were then there would be no argument, but he isn't.

Its a lost cause arguing with some posters here, they claim Barnes has no business being in the discussion but then goes on to say he's not saying Barnes doesnt have a chance to win it. Two completely contradictory statements. Like make up your damn minds...

What part of "Barnes currently has no argument" and "he could still win it later if he plays better" are you having trouble comprehending? Those aren't contradictory statements at all. Both can absolutely be true, and right now they are true. I'm sorry if you have trouble understanding it, but it's not a matter of us being a lost cause. It's a matter if you not being smart enough to understand what's being said. That's on you, not us.

Nobody's saying Barnes doesn't have a chance but if you claim Barnes has an argument you're a clown. Got it.

So once again, we get another poster who lacks reading comprehension and apparently just started watching sports this year. Read the above part and use your brains people. It's not hard.

Completely reasonable take which definitely isn't marginalizing how much better Barnes is on offense than Mobley at all. Mobley really isn't close at all to Barnes on that end and if he were then there would be no argument, but he isn't.

How much better on offense is Barnes exactly compared to Mobley? Right now despite being featured more on offense, Barnes is only averaging a point and a half more per game than Mobley. That doesn't come close to being "so much better that it's not even close". They are pretty close on the offensive end. If they aren't, feel free to make an argument that has yet to be made because no one with a functioning brain would even try to make such a statement. Even Barnes would probably laugh at that one.

[QingJames]

What part of "Barnes currently has no argument" and "he could still win it later if he plays better" are you having trouble comprehending? Those aren't contradictory statements at all. Both can absolutely be true, and right now they are true. I'm sorry if you have trouble understanding it, but it's not a matter of us being a lost cause. It's a matter if you not being smart enough to understand what's being said. That's on you, not us.

Because what you're saying is that Barnes - in spite of being a much better offensive player than Mobley and having an incredible rookie season - isn't even in the conversation right now. So essentially the threshold you're setting is that Barnes must play like rookie MJ in the second half of the season to even be mentioned in the same breath as Mobley. You're saying "he has a chance" but simultaneously suggesting that nothing he's shown so far even remotely comes close to putting him in the conversation for the award. You're just being disingenuous with your throwaway line, and nobody is convinced that your petty lip service really reflects what you believe, just that it gives you plausible deniability; "I'm not saying Barnes has no chance, I'm just saying he's not even in the conversation with Mobley!" is tantamount to saying Barnes has no chance. I don't know why I'm bothering to elaborate on this because you know very well what you're doing.

How much better on offense is Barnes exactly compared to Mobley? Right now despite being featured more on offense, Barnes is only averaging a point and a half more per game than Mobley. That doesn't come close to being "so much better that it's not even close". They are pretty close on the offensive end. If they aren't, feel free to make an argument that has yet to be made because no one with a functioning brain would even try to make such a statement. Even Barnes would probably laugh at that one.

They aren't and I mentioned it before. I'll post it again. Barnes is better than Mobley at every facet of offense except free-throw shooting.

Barnes is both more efficient from the field as a whole and from deep. This is despite having nearly half as many buckets being assisted as Mobley - so he’s not only able to self-create far better than Mobley, but he’s doing it more efficiently than Mobley is on his ~72% assisted buckets.

Better offensive rebounder. Barnes is already one of the best at that in the league. Top 10 or 15 in offensive rebounds so far this season, can’t recall the exact number.

Better handle. Better playmaking ability. Better vision. Better offensive rating. Better assist to turnover ratio. All this on equal usage. Barnes is just far more versatile than Mobley on offense, has more moves and generally just does every single thing on offense better except shoot free throws.

[normgod6]

Nobody's saying Barnes doesn't have a chance but if you claim Barnes has an argument you're a clown. Got it. Completely reasonable take which definitely isn't marginalizing how much better Barnes is on offense than Mobley at all. Mobley really isn't close at all to Barnes on that end and if he were then there would be no argument, but he isn't.

Its a lost cause arguing with some posters here, they claim Barnes has no business being in the discussion but then goes on to say he's not saying Barnes doesnt have a chance to win it. Two completely contradictory statements. Like make up your damn minds...

What part of "Barnes currently has no argument" and "he could still win it later if he plays better" are you having trouble comprehending? Those aren't contradictory statements at all. Both can absolutely be true, and right now they are true. I'm sorry if you have trouble understanding it, but it's not a matter of us being a lost cause. It's a matter if you not being smart enough to understand what's being said. That's on you, not us.

Nobody's saying Barnes doesn't have a chance but if you claim Barnes has an argument you're a clown. Got it.

So once again, we get another poster who lacks reading comprehension and apparently just started watching sports this year. Read the above part and use your brains people. It's not hard.

Completely reasonable take which definitely isn't marginalizing how much better Barnes is on offense than Mobley at all. Mobley really isn't close at all to Barnes on that end and if he were then there would be no argument, but he isn't.

How much better on offense is Barnes exactly compared to Mobley? Right now despite being featured more on offense, Barnes is only averaging a point and a half more per game than Mobley. That doesn't come close to being "so much better that it's not even close". They are pretty close on the offensive end. If they aren't, feel free to make an argument that has yet to be made because no one with a functioning brain would even try to make such a statement. Even Barnes would probably laugh at that one.

Barnes isn't being featured more on offense. They both have same usage rates at 19%. Scottie is averaging 63.8 touches per game compared to 58.2 for Mobley. They are averaging similar amount of touches. In the starting line up, Barnes is the 4th option behind VanVleet, Siakam and Trent Jr. Barnes is also creating most of his points by himself- 58% of his shots are unassisted, while only 31% of Mobley's shot is unassisted. Barnes is creating his own shot more. Despite this, they have similar efficiency at 54.3% true shooting. Barnes also has a higher assist rate, a better assist to turnover rate and higher offensive rebounding rate. Getting into plus minus metrics, Barnes blows Mobley out of the water in all publicly available offensive impact metrics.

Offensive RAPTOR: Mobley: -2.7, Barnes: +1.0
Offensive EPM: Mobley: -1.1, Barnes: +0.5
Offensive DPM: Mobley: -1.3, Barnes 0
Offensive BPM: Mobley: -0.4, Barnes: 0.5

All box score stats and advanced metrics point to the fact that Barnes is a positive impact offensive player while Mobley isn't. Despite getting most of his shots off easy assisted looks, Mobley is not converting it at the rate that would make him a positive impact offensive player. Barnes, through his playmaking, off ball cutting, offensive rebounding is able to positively impact the Raptor's offense despite his uncertain shot- which has been looking promising for the past few games.

[yoyoboy]

Barnes is a better offensive player. But the defensive advantage in favor of Mobley is clearly bigger.

[TheDunc]

Nobody's saying Barnes doesn't have a chance but if you claim Barnes has an argument you're a clown. Got it. Completely reasonable take which definitely isn't marginalizing how much better Barnes is on offense than Mobley at all. Mobley really isn't close at all to Barnes on that end and if he were then there would be no argument, but he isn't.

Its a lost cause arguing with some posters here, they claim Barnes has no business being in the discussion but then goes on to say he's not saying Barnes doesnt have a chance to win it. Two completely contradictory statements. Like make up your damn minds...

What part of "Barnes currently has no argument" and "he could still win it later if he plays better" are you having trouble comprehending? Those aren't contradictory statements at all. Both can absolutely be true, and right now they are true. I'm sorry if you have trouble understanding it, but it's not a matter of us being a lost cause. It's a matter if you not being smart enough to understand what's being said. That's on you, not us.

Nobody's saying Barnes doesn't have a chance but if you claim Barnes has an argument you're a clown. Got it.

So once again, we get another poster who lacks reading comprehension and apparently just started watching sports this year. Read the above part and use your brains people. It's not hard.

Completely reasonable take which definitely isn't marginalizing how much better Barnes is on offense than Mobley at all. Mobley really isn't close at all to Barnes on that end and if he were then there would be no argument, but he isn't.

How much better on offense is Barnes exactly compared to Mobley? Right now despite being featured more on offense, Barnes is only averaging a point and a half more per game than Mobley. That doesn't come close to being "so much better that it's not even close". They are pretty close on the offensive end. If they aren't, feel free to make an argument that has yet to be made because no one with a functioning brain would even try to make such a statement. Even Barnes would probably laugh at that one.

Because those are two really different statements, saying he has no chance to win it right now even though ROY isnt handed out after a few months and saying he could win it later if he plays better is dismissing how good Barnes has been so far, as if he needs to make some huge jump in the future to be in the discussion for ROY when thats just BS. First off ROY isnt handed out after a few months so with how well Barnes has been playing so far hes certainly in the discussion already as we speak. Youre also just assuming Mobley will play this well or better all year when in reality we have no idea if he or Barnes will play worse, better or the same.

And Bruh ive been watching basketball for 25 years, you wish you had my basketball knowledge

[QingJames]

Barnes is a better offensive player. But the defensive advantage in favor of Mobley is clearly bigger.

Sure, I think almost all of us Raptors fans can agree with that. I can, at least. But the defensive advantage Mobley has over Barnes is not so great that it precludes Scottie from the ROTY debate a quarter of the way through the season, given how Scottie is far better offensive player than Mobley.

[DroseReturnChi]

Mobley has been better to date mainly because of his great defense but to think Barnes has no chance of winning ROY is also a joke because its still very early.

To be honest, this probably gives Mobley the edge, especially for rookies offense comes and goes, slumps happen, rookies struggle.

Mobley's defense while not perfect is most likely going to be good game after game.

Oh definitely, if i had to bet i would put my money on Mobley to win ROY and im a huge Barnes fan. But to think Barnes has no business being in the discussion this early just seems like some hate because lets face it a lot of posters like to hate on raptor fans because we make up the majority on here, thats always been that way.

raps are a tanking team. barnes has 0% chance hes a mediocre scorer.
cade has a chance sorry for calling him a bust bc he does well in mobley's supposed weakness which is scoring, shooting.
roy volume raw stat is valuable although advanced stats cade gets trashed.

[TheDunc]

To be honest, this probably gives Mobley the edge, especially for rookies offense comes and goes, slumps happen, rookies struggle.

Mobley's defense while not perfect is most likely going to be good game after game.

Oh definitely, if i had to bet i would put my money on Mobley to win ROY and im a huge Barnes fan. But to think Barnes has no business being in the discussion this early just seems like some hate because lets face it a lot of posters like to hate on raptor fans because we make up the majority on here, thats always been that way.

raps are a tanking team. barnes has 0% chance hes a mediocre scorer.
cade has a chance sorry for calling him a bust bc he does well in mobley's supposed weakness which is scoring, shooting.
roy volume raw stat is valuable although advanced stats cade gets trashed.

Your credibility goes out the window when you say Barnes has 0%. Thats one of the more idiotie takes ive heard on here

[TheLand13]

Because what you're saying is that Barnes - in spite of being a much better offensive player than Mobley and having an incredible rookie season - isn't even in the conversation right now.

Not even going to bother reading the rest of your post. There is nothing right now that suggests that Barnes is a "much better offensive player" than Mobley. In fact, based on my watching of both players so far, the gap is not very far apart. And not to mention, you're once again straight up failing to understand the point. Right now, Barnes has no argument over Mobley. That doesn't mean that won't change down the road. That's the entire point. Right NOW, it's Mobley, you cannot argue against that.

Stop making your fan base look bad by acting insecure and clueless. This isn't very difficult stuff to comprehend.

[QingJames]

Because what you're saying is that Barnes - in spite of being a much better offensive player than Mobley and having an incredible rookie season - isn't even in the conversation right now.

Not even going to bother reading the rest of your post. There is nothing right now that suggests that Barnes is a "much better offensive player" than Mobley. In fact, based on my watching of both players so far, the gap is not very far apart. And not to mention, you're once again straight up failing to understand the point. Right now, Barnes has no argument over Mobley. That doesn't mean that won't change down the road. That's the entire point. Right NOW, it's Mobley, you cannot argue against that.

Stop making your fan base look bad by acting insecure and clueless. This isn't very difficult stuff to comprehend.

Dude both I and Normgod gave you detailed reasons and stats showing you Barnes is better than Mobley on offense by basically every metric. Literally the only thing Mobley does better is shoot free throws. Maybe take your own advice and develop some reading comprehension, eh? You can keep putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring the metrics but this isn't very difficult stuff to comprehend, so I guess you're just being lazy or insecure.

[TheLand13]

Because what you're saying is that Barnes - in spite of being a much better offensive player than Mobley and having an incredible rookie season - isn't even in the conversation right now.

Not even going to bother reading the rest of your post. There is nothing right now that suggests that Barnes is a "much better offensive player" than Mobley. In fact, based on my watching of both players so far, the gap is not very far apart. And not to mention, you're once again straight up failing to understand the point. Right now, Barnes has no argument over Mobley. That doesn't mean that won't change down the road. That's the entire point. Right NOW, it's Mobley, you cannot argue against that.

Stop making your fan base look bad by acting insecure and clueless. This isn't very difficult stuff to comprehend.

Dude both I and Normgod gave you detailed reasons and stats showing you Barnes is better than Mobley on offense by basically every metric. Literally the only thing Mobley does better is shoot free throws. Maybe take your own advice and develop some reading comprehension, eh? You can keep putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring the metrics but this isn't very difficult stuff to comprehend, so I guess you're just being lazy or insecure.

Buddy, take your own advice. I literally just said I didn't even bother reading your post beyond that point that I quoted. So what does reading comprehension have to do with this? Whatever part of your post shows advanced metrics I didn't read. You're not a baby, I shouldn't have to point this stuff out to you. I also haven't even seen Normgod's post yet. But I'll tell you what, I'll go and entertain his post while I ignore everything you say at this point, because so far you've offered nothing valuable to this discussion.

[TheLand13]

Barnes isn't being featured more on offense. They both have same usage rates at 19%. Scottie is averaging 63.8 touches per game compared to 58.2 for Mobley. They are averaging similar amount of touches. In the starting line up, Barnes is the 4th option behind VanVleet, Siakam and Trent Jr. Barnes is also creating most of his points by himself- 58% of his shots are unassisted, while only 31% of Mobley's shot is unassisted. Barnes is creating his own shot more. Despite this, they have similar efficiency at 54.3% true shooting. Barnes also has a higher assist rate, a better assist to turnover rate and higher offensive rebounding rate.

Getting into plus minus metrics, Barnes blows Mobley out of the water in all publicly available offensive impact metrics.

Offensive RAPTOR: Mobley: -2.7, Barnes: +1.0
Offensive EPM: Mobley: -1.1, Barnes: +0.5
Offensive DPM: Mobley: -1.3, Barnes 0
Offensive BPM: Mobley: -0.4, Barnes: 0.5

All box score stats and advanced metrics point to the fact that Barnes is a positive impact offensive player while Mobley isn't. Despite getting most of his shots off easy assisted looks, Mobley is not converting it at the rate that would make him a positive impact offensive player. Barnes, through his playmaking, off ball cutting, offensive rebounding is able to positively impact the Raptor's offense despite his uncertain shot- which has been looking promising for the past few games.

Well look at that, someone who actually has a clue as to what they're talking about. I'll give you this one, this is a very detailed look into what both men offer on offense and it's clear (as I've stated before) that Barnes is a better offensive player. But this post makes it clear the gap is larger than I originally thought.

Take the and1. You've earned it.

[QingJames]

Not even going to bother reading the rest of your post. There is nothing right now that suggests that Barnes is a "much better offensive player" than Mobley. In fact, based on my watching of both players so far, the gap is not very far apart. And not to mention, you're once again straight up failing to understand the point. Right now, Barnes has no argument over Mobley. That doesn't mean that won't change down the road. That's the entire point. Right NOW, it's Mobley, you cannot argue against that.

Stop making your fan base look bad by acting insecure and clueless. This isn't very difficult stuff to comprehend.

Dude both I and Normgod gave you detailed reasons and stats showing you Barnes is better than Mobley on offense by basically every metric. Literally the only thing Mobley does better is shoot free throws. Maybe take your own advice and develop some reading comprehension, eh? You can keep putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring the metrics but this isn't very difficult stuff to comprehend, so I guess you're just being lazy or insecure.

Buddy, take your own advice. I literally just said I didn't even bother reading your post beyond that point that I quoted. So what does reading comprehension have to do with this? Whatever part of your post shows advanced metrics I didn't read. You're not a baby, I shouldn't have to point this stuff out to you. I also haven't even seen Normgod's post yet. But I'll tell you what, I'll go and entertain his post while I ignore everything you say at this point, because so far you've offered nothing valuable to this discussion.

"Take your own advice"

"N-no YOU take your own advice I'm IGNORING you"

lol man okay. Dishes out the insults but too thin-skinned to take your own insults back. Adios.

[holdenwait]

oh Sengun, driving Cousins mad tonight.

https://streamable.com/s1a2s1

[TheLand13]

Dude both I and Normgod gave you detailed reasons and stats showing you Barnes is better than Mobley on offense by basically every metric. Literally the only thing Mobley does better is shoot free throws. Maybe take your own advice and develop some reading comprehension, eh? You can keep putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring the metrics but this isn't very difficult stuff to comprehend, so I guess you're just being lazy or insecure.

Buddy, take your own advice. I literally just said I didn't even bother reading your post beyond that point that I quoted. So what does reading comprehension have to do with this? Whatever part of your post shows advanced metrics I didn't read. You're not a baby, I shouldn't have to point this stuff out to you. I also haven't even seen Normgod's post yet. But I'll tell you what, I'll go and entertain his post while I ignore everything you say at this point, because so far you've offered nothing valuable to this discussion.

"Take your own advice"

"N-no YOU take your own advice I'm IGNORING you"

lol man okay. Dishes out the insults but too thin-skinned to take your own insults back. Adios.

The lack of self awareness here is amazing.

[JonFromVA]

Cut it out guys. Stop thread crapping and get back to enjoying this rookie class. If Rockets fans believe Sengun is ROY because of his BPM more power to them, but unless you're a voter none of that means anything.

[MrBigShot]

Kyrie and Derrick Williams, oh please. Derrick Williams put up 9/5 on 41/27/70 shooting splits, get out of here with that non-sense. Mobley is obviously the clear RoY favorite but the race is not over with 3/4s of the season left to play.

[amcoolio]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=ESPN

Bouknight is a gifted ISO scorer

[tdotrep2]

Barnes the last 2 games defensively has been what was expected coming out, hes becoming scary on that end its only a matter of time.