2022-23 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.1)

[Bob8]

The favourites were Serbs. Then it was Greece and Slovenia. Jokic went out 1 round before Luka and Giannis in the same round. In those tournaments anyone can win. The 1 tournament before Slovenia has won being 30:1 before the tournament.

Nobody is winning in Nba with 23 years unless he has great team, when he's drafted, like Magic. I would say that playing in WCF is overachievement for Luka and the Mavs with roster like that. They basically needed only solid C to have chances for something more. Looney just destroyed Mavs' bigs in WCF.

Luka totally outplayed Booker in game 6 and 7. If Booker was in Luka's tier that shouldn't have happened. After that series nobody will put Booker in the same conversation with Luka until Booker wins a title.

CP3 is great player, but in playoffs **** happened every time he could do something. He might be the unluckiest player ever or ...

Pretty sure Slovenia was the favorite with 8 teams remaining and lost to Poland, who lost by 40 next game. This loss is almost as embarassing for Slovenia as Gm7 for the Suns. I never said Booker is on Luka's level, just that he's a better off ball player so easier to fit with other ball handlers. Some of those CP3 failures were because of injuries, just like latest one. He is 37yo. Luka may not even play in the league by that age or with his eating habbits will barely move and become worst defender in league history.

You mean, when Jokic went out in 1/8? It was Greece and Slovenia after Serbian disaster.

Fiba tournaments are 1 elimination match. That's why you have that many upsets. If they have played best of 7 series, Serbia, Greece and Slovenia would all be in the semis. Suns have won something like 13 consecutive matches against Mavs, were 2:0 up and had home court advantage in game 7 and they have still lost, by 60 points in last 2 games. That my friend might be 1 of the biggest embarrassments in Nba history.

I believe Luka can play with that slow pace until 50. On the other hand, Giannis, who depends only on athleticism might have big problems very soon.

[cam24thomas]

Luka will break Kareem/LeBron's points record easy peasy lemon squeazy.

[SpreeS]

It's Luka and it shouldn't even be close. 1st in scoring, 1st in PER, 2nd in steals...Doesn't really have a 2nd or 3rd option on the team. Most unguardable player in the league.

Read on Twitter

Hahaha. It shows only one thing, how bad these defensive stats are…

[leolozon]

It's Luka and it shouldn't even be close. 1st in scoring, 1st in PER, 2nd in steals...Doesn't really have a 2nd or 3rd option on the team. Most unguardable player in the league.

Read on Twitter

Hahaha. It shows only one thing, how bad these defensive stats are…

He will never be on an all NBA defense, but he's clearly better and can be a positive.

https://youtube.com/shorts/x8N8MXaZ4ZI?feature=share

[SpreeS]

Doncic defence by other stats

EPM 84th
Raptor 96th
RPM 32th

[Archx]

I'm not comparing Mavs and Suns, just mentioned players someone else brought into the discussion.

My understanding of basketball is that a PG should make his teammates happy by involving them more. I expect a lower usage from a PG for that. You have Curry as example of high usage player at PG position who won titles, but he's still a lot better playing off ball and obviously his teams were great at moving the ball. KP was not happy playing with Luka, Brunson was mostly backing him and Mavs fans wanted to trade him for a better fit. Curry was traded for a better fit, but his replacement didn't play well with Luka. This season he's looking to score more and rest of the players are suddenly worse. With Ayton situation and being a low usage player I even said I like the fit, but looking at how he was not able to get anything out of McGee, I now doubt they are good fit on offense. It's like Luka can only play with a roller type bigs and will marginalize a player like DA. If players had a choice I'm sure they'd prefer playing with someone like Jokic.

Anyway, as Bob8 said Luka has all the time to prove the doubters wrong and win a title with this style. Let's wait and see.

First thing, you can't say GSW plays this way, why can't the Mavs aswell? Completely different roster, players, coaches, etc.. If i also recall correctly, Curry never was playing like a pure PG, Green was their playmaker. Curry was basically SG.

And you also mixed up some things or you're just making stuff up. KP was always happy in Dallas and loved playing there. But problem was Rick's coaching because KP couldn't stay healthy and he didn't fit to what Mavs needed from him. He was horrible in the post and couldn't dribble. Kidd went to Latvia before season started and KP said he was thinking of leaving but Kidd visit convinced him to stay. Rick totally messed him up. Still, even when Kidd tried to incorporate him MORE into offense, he didn't do himself any favors because he was more or less the same player he was before, plus again, injury problems were still happening.

Brunson was on his way to be the defacto 2nd guy but Cuban messed up his contract. His own dad literally told Jalen to prepare himself to be a Mav for life. The only other thing he said playing for Mavs was the fact that he needed to slightly adapt his playing style, but i dont' see any difference on the Knicks. He still has almost the same freedom as he had in the playoffs.

Seth Curry was awesome for Mavs, one of the dumbest trades Donnie has ever done. Trading a perfect spacer guy that could also dribble and create for a completely opposite player that couldn't do nothing else good. Jrich has been bouncing from team to team ever since.
McGee proved to be a huge miss so far. Luka is looking for him a lot in PnR but McGee's IQ just isn't allowing him to stay on the floor. He did play a bit better recently, so we'll see how it goes.

[sunsbg]

Yeah I'm sure KP was super happy to be relegated to a spot up shooter. Richardson trade and McGee signing have nothing to do with Luka's style of play and weaknesses, it was purely Donnie's stupidity. Luka can play until 50, while he looks 30+ at 23.

I just said his style and mentality is ball hoggish based on his quote 'give me the **** ball' to his teammates a few games into rookie season and watching him play for a few seasons now. For me when something sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, maybe it's a duck. Luka fanboys : no it's swan, you have zero objectivity.

Also, reading a lot of opinions ball hogging is a good thing, so not sure why my opinion is seen as negatively biased. It's all positive.

[Archx]

Yeah I'm sure KP was super happy to be relegated to a spot up shooter. Richardson trade and McGee signing have nothing to do with Luka's style of play and weaknesses, it was purely Donnie's stupidity. Luka can play until 50, while he looks 30+ at 23.

I just said his style and mentality is ball hoggish based on his quote 'give me the **** ball' to his teammates a few games into rookie season and watching him play for a few seasons now. For me when something sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, maybe it's a duck. Luka fanboys : no it's swan, you have zero objectivity.

Also, reading a lot of opinions ball hogging is a good thing, so not sure why my opinion is seen as negatively biased. It's all positive.

I assume this was directed to me based on your text. The quote you wrote there is without a context and obviously you can interpret it however you want and you can make any player look bad. In reality it was a lot different how you're trying to make it look. It was a clutch situation and some stupid things went on.


I also explained to you the KP situation which has nothing to do with Doncic. If he was so mad at him then Wood wouldn't even be on the Mavs right now and he actually looks how Mavs wanted KP to look.

Btw, i wasn't even discussing Doncic, i was discussing Mavs players and their status/situation with the team. It's you who keep reversing to Doncic even though i mentioned him only once

As i said before, you're mixing apples and oranges a lot in your posts and i think i figured out you're basically doing what BostonCouchGM is doing. I honestly can't be bothered with these type of childish trolling posts and your bizzare alternate facts.

So i guess Mavs fans will enjoy his ballhogging or whatever you want to call it and you have fun with Ayton. Deal? Ok.

[Zespetjest]

Luka is phenomenal, but in third place behind Tatum and Giannis.

Tatum is the easy pick right now. Plenty of offensive explosive nights, fills up the stat sheet elsewhere when his shot isn't falling, plays lockdown D against anyone in the league and has his team with the best record in the league.

If the season ended today he should win the MVP, be first team all NBA and First Team Defense.

Swap Tatum with Luka and see how far can he carry this Mavs team.

[sunsbg]

LOL in a Doncic is a ballhog or not discussion a guy asks me why I mention Luka and I'm the troll. OK.

[Bob8]

Yeah I'm sure KP was super happy to be relegated to a spot up shooter. Richardson trade and McGee signing have nothing to do with Luka's style of play and weaknesses, it was purely Donnie's stupidity. Luka can play until 50, while he looks 30+ at 23.

I just said his style and mentality is ball hoggish based on his quote 'give me the **** ball' to his teammates a few games into rookie season and watching him play for a few seasons now. For me when something sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, maybe it's a duck. Luka fanboys : no it's swan, you have zero objectivity.

Also, reading a lot of opinions ball hogging is a good thing, so not sure why my opinion is seen as negatively biased. It's all positive.

Like I said, efficient 34/9/8, 23 years old ball-hog is the most valuable asset in Nba. Now you all can have brain tank how ball-hogging is bad.

[Oscar9992]

Luka is leading the league in post-up points!

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

[SpreeS]

10.1 sec per pos keeping the ball - all time record. Even Harden and Westbrook looks like more off ball Curry compared with Doncic.

[maxpower8888]

It's not Luka's fault that the Mavs surrounded him with players who can't create their own shot. Other than Dinwiddie, nobody else can create their own shot.

[Bob8]

10.1 sec per pos keeping the ball - all time record. Even Harden and Westbrook looks like more off ball Curry compared with Doncic.

Do you watch Mavs? You don't want to see ball handling from anyone except Luka and Dinwiddie.

[Texas Chuck]

It's Luka and it shouldn't even be close. 1st in scoring, 1st in PER, 2nd in steals...Doesn't really have a 2nd or 3rd option on the team. Most unguardable player in the league.

Read on Twitter

Hahaha. It shows only one thing, how bad these defensive stats are…

It actually shows something important, though its misleading as hell. Nobody should mistake Luka for a plus defender, but that's not important. What matters is him showing you can have a very good defense with him on the court. And last year Dallas had a very good defense and an elite one the last 50 games of the year. This year the defense is top 5 through the first 20% of the year.

He just can't be a huge liability and both the numbers and watching the games tell us he isn't one. Oh he has bad moments for sure. Still doesn't get back quickly enough. Can still be blown by in space. But he's a lot better than some other star offensive guards for sure.

And its okay for that to be pointed out even if it doesn't fit lazy stereotypes and narratives.

[BelgradeNugget]

Hahaha. It shows only one thing, how bad these defensive stats are…

It actually shows something important, though its misleading as hell. Nobody should mistake Luka for a plus defender, but that's not important. What matters is him showing you can have a very good defense with him on the court. And last year Dallas had a very good defense and an elite one the last 50 games of the year. This year the defense is top 5 through the first 20% of the year.

He just can't be a huge liability and both the numbers and watching the games tell us he isn't one. Oh he has bad moments for sure. Still doesn't get back quickly enough. Can still be blown by in space. But he's a lot better than some other star offensive guards for sure.

And its okay for that to be pointed out even if it doesn't fit lazy stereotypes and narratives.

Doncic defence by other stats

EPM 84th
Raptor 96th
RPM 32th

I honestly don't get why people can't say Luka is a plus defender, or very good defensively in what he is supposed to do for the Mavs team to have elite defense. If we look at his average position by this stats it is 71 which is on the level of 3rd best defender per team.
So, it is not the question is he Marcus Smarth or Draymond Green on defense it is the question is he Trey Young on defense with whom some people compared him. He is not Marcus Smarth but a lot closer to him than Trey Young is to Luka, which makes him above average defender.
The same story followed Curry for a long time, I think it is time to put both these narratives to bed.

[SpreeS]

Hahaha. It shows only one thing, how bad these defensive stats are…

It actually shows something important, though its misleading as hell. Nobody should mistake Luka for a plus defender, but that's not important. What matters is him showing you can have a very good defense with him on the court. And last year Dallas had a very good defense and an elite one the last 50 games of the year. This year the defense is top 5 through the first 20% of the year.

He just can't be a huge liability and both the numbers and watching the games tell us he isn't one. Oh he has bad moments for sure. Still doesn't get back quickly enough. Can still be blown by in space. But he's a lot better than some other star offensive guards for sure.

And its okay for that to be pointed out even if it doesn't fit lazy stereotypes and narratives.

Doncic defence by other stats

EPM 84th
Raptor 96th
RPM 32th

I honestly don't get why people can't say Luka is a plus defender, or very good defensively in what he is supposed to do for the Mavs team to have elite defense. If we look at his average position by this stats it is 71 which is on the level of 3rd best defender per team.
So, it is not the question is he Marcus Smarth or Draymond Green on defense it is the question is he Trey Young on defense with whom some people compared him. He is not Marcus Smarth but a lot closer to him than Trey Young is to Luka, which makes him above average defender.
The same story followed Curry for a long time, I think it is time to put both these narratives to bed.

I don’t say he is bad defender, but he is avg at best. And in reality he is below avg b/c of crazy USG on offence. It’s not realistic for Doncic body to have energy on defence after all time highest USG on offence.

[BelgradeNugget]

It actually shows something important, though its misleading as hell. Nobody should mistake Luka for a plus defender, but that's not important. What matters is him showing you can have a very good defense with him on the court. And last year Dallas had a very good defense and an elite one the last 50 games of the year. This year the defense is top 5 through the first 20% of the year.

He just can't be a huge liability and both the numbers and watching the games tell us he isn't one. Oh he has bad moments for sure. Still doesn't get back quickly enough. Can still be blown by in space. But he's a lot better than some other star offensive guards for sure.

And its okay for that to be pointed out even if it doesn't fit lazy stereotypes and narratives.

Doncic defence by other stats

EPM 84th
Raptor 96th
RPM 32th

I honestly don't get why people can't say Luka is a plus defender, or very good defensively in what he is supposed to do for the Mavs team to have elite defense. If we look at his average position by this stats it is 71 which is on the level of 3rd best defender per team.
So, it is not the question is he Marcus Smarth or Draymond Green on defense it is the question is he Trey Young on defense with whom some people compared him. He is not Marcus Smarth but a lot closer to him than Trey Young is to Luka, which makes him above average defender.
The same story followed Curry for a long time, I think it is time to put both these narratives to bed.

I don’t say he is bad defender, but he is avg at best. And in reality he is below avg b/c of crazy USG on offence. It’s not realistic for Doncic body to have energy on defence after all time highest USG on offence.

I'm not trying to argue your position about his usage and Dallas offense. Both your arguments and that from Dallas fans have some truth in them. Question is about defense.
My point is simple, you don't have to be POA guard defender, great rim protector, all-defense candidate to be good - above average defender. If there are 300 rotation players in NBA, and you are 71st you are above average. Some players can be good defenders because of their great BBIQ. And it is truth to Luka, Curry and Jokic although some people can't accept it.

[Johnny Firpo]

LOL objectivity from Luka fanboys. I'm saying he's great skill-wise, but has a ball hoggish style/mentality, which is obvious to me since he stepped a foot on NBA floor. Kinda surprising for ex-Euroleague player if you have ever watched how game is played there. It's opinion shared by many and I don't care if you read it. With DFS, Bullock and Dinwiddie he won a second round series. Are they really that bad and it was pure luck ?

I am absolutely more objective than you, no question. I remember your ridiculous comments, whereas I'm not even on the "Luka is the best player in the NBA" bandwagon, which has many non-Dallas fans on it. He does lead my MVP race, but only by a small margin. I also don't agree that he is hogging the ball. To me, a high usage does not necessarily equal hogging the ball. AI, Kobe, to me, they were bigger ball hoggers because they did not have the mindset of "let's find the best shot", they were mostly thinking their shot is the best shot. I also don't understand the Harden thing. Harden isn't terrible to watch because he dribbles a lot, but because of his fall hunting. Luka plays like LeBron, and NOT like Harden.
.
If you watch the Mavs play, you have to see how Luka finds open shooters more than probably any other play in the league, the Mavs players just aren't shooting it well. He is exactly like LeBron in that regard. The Mavs simply plays a "solar system" system, where everything revolves around the "Sun", that player, who is Luka. But they do this out of necessity, more than they do it because they feel this is the best way to be successful. Once they find Luka a legit 2nd option, his usage rate will drop to 31-33%. Also, let's not pretend that your need to point this out or interpret his usage in any way came out of you watching Mavs games. It didn't.