If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

[basketballRob]

Barnes had his struggles early, but over the last 10 he has been averaging (per game):

18 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists and 3 blocks/steals on 47% shooting (still needs to get his efficiency up).

He still has moments, usually in the 4th quarter, where he looks like Giannis-lite. He has not been as consistent as Franz and Mobley, but when he is at his best his all-around game is insane. He might still have the most overall upside. A 21 year old 6'9'' wing who is already averaging 5 assists per game on 21% usage rate while looking dominant on offense in flashes is super valuable.

Even if you take the last 10 games and compare them to Franz, he's still better.

Franz 22 ppg 52/42/79 in 3 less mpg.

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[zaymon]

Tier 1
Wagner
Tier 2
Mobley, Cunningham
Tier 3
Barnes, Giddey, Green, Sengun, Murphy, Suggs

[ocelot17]

Read on Twitter

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[JackTalkThai]

Tier 1
Wagner
Tier 2
Mobley, Cunningham
Tier 3
Barnes, Giddey, Green, Sengun, Murphy, Suggs

VERY few, if any, GM’s would prefer Wagner over Cunningham unless they were looking for a specific positional starter. Before he got injured, Cade was averaging 21.3, 5.7 and 5.9 and registered nearly 3 or 4 triple doubles in the first 10 games. With a four game stretch against Milwaukee, Golden State, Washington and Atlanta where he put up:

23 points - 10 rebounds - 9 assists
35 points - 9 rebounds - 8 assists
27 points - 7 rebounds - 7 assists
26 points - 8 rebounds - 6 assists

Recency bias causes people to forget just how good Cade was playing this year prior to his shin injury. But that injury aside, he is Tier 1 position 1 with Barnes right on his heels. The league is littered with players like Franz who score 20 but don’t offer much in terms of game facilitation, creation, assists or rebounds.

[basketballRob]

Tier 1
Wagner
Tier 2
Mobley, Cunningham
Tier 3
Barnes, Giddey, Green, Sengun, Murphy, Suggs

VERY few, if any, GM’s would prefer Wagner over Cunningham unless they were looking for a specific positional starter. Before he got injured, Cade was averaging 21.3, 5.7 and 5.9 and registered nearly 3 or 4 triple doubles in the first 10 games. With a four game stretch against Milwaukee, Golden State, Washington and Atlanta where he put up:

23 points - 10 rebounds - 9 assists
35 points - 9 rebounds - 8 assists
27 points - 7 rebounds - 7 assists
26 points - 8 rebounds - 6 assists

Recency bias causes people to forget just how good Cade was playing this year prior to his shin injury. But that injury aside, he is Tier 1 position 1 with Barnes right on his heels. The league is littered with players like Franz who score 20 but don’t offer much in terms of game facilitation, creation, assists or rebounds.

Cade had high usage and played pg.

Franz is also a better defender and shooter.

Analytics say that Cade isn't on the same level as Franz.

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[j-ragg]

Tier 1
Wagner
Tier 2
Mobley, Cunningham
Tier 3
Barnes, Giddey, Green, Sengun, Murphy, Suggs

Recency bias causes people to forget just how good Cade was playing this year prior to his shin injury. But that injury aside, he is Tier 1 position 1 with Barnes right on his heels. The league is littered with players like Franz who score 20 but don’t offer much in terms of game facilitation, creation, assists or rebounds.

What is it that Barnes does so well compared to Franz to be on Mobley’s heels? As opposed to Franz who’s skill set is a dime a dozen???

IMO it’s only Cade/Mobley you could argue above him.

[OrlMagic05]

yessir

And if both of you were GM's youd be fired in 2 seasons.

lol, what happens first? paolo leaves or the magic gm gets fired?

Well we know the Bulls GM should be fired for giving Orlando two lottery picks for Vuc lol

[basketballRob]

Tier 1
Wagner
Tier 2
Mobley, Cunningham
Tier 3
Barnes, Giddey, Green, Sengun, Murphy, Suggs

Recency bias causes people to forget just how good Cade was playing this year prior to his shin injury. But that injury aside, he is Tier 1 position 1 with Barnes right on his heels. The league is littered with players like Franz who score 20 but don’t offer much in terms of game facilitation, creation, assists or rebounds.

What is it that Barnes does so well compared to Franz to be on Mobley’s heels? As opposed to Franz who’s skill set is a dime a dozen???

IMO it’s only Cade/Mobley you could argue above him.

If you look at analytics, Franz is in a tier level above Cade and Mobley. We can speculate that they could be better one day but they aren't currently on his level. Analytics say Franz is a better defender than Mobley.

Look at Raptor, War, and EPM.

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[zaymon]

Tier 1
Wagner
Tier 2
Mobley, Cunningham
Tier 3
Barnes, Giddey, Green, Sengun, Murphy, Suggs

VERY few, if any, GM’s would prefer Wagner over Cunningham unless they were looking for a specific positional starter. Before he got injured, Cade was averaging 21.3, 5.7 and 5.9 and registered nearly 3 or 4 triple doubles in the first 10 games. With a four game stretch against Milwaukee, Golden State, Washington and Atlanta where he put up:

23 points - 10 rebounds - 9 assists
35 points - 9 rebounds - 8 assists
27 points - 7 rebounds - 7 assists
26 points - 8 rebounds - 6 assists

Recency bias causes people to forget just how good Cade was playing this year prior to his shin injury. But that injury aside, he is Tier 1 position 1 with Barnes right on his heels. The league is littered with players like Franz who score 20 but don’t offer much in terms of game facilitation, creation, assists or rebounds.

So you have access to GM survey about Cunningham and Wagner everyone is not aware of ? You just rote random statistics. Look at Cade numbers since college especially efficiency. He is inefficient dwarf next to Franz. He is also not very athletic. If not for his perceived potential he would be in tier 3. Barnes is another overhyped player. I have been saying this since before the draft and i was right about both of them so far. League is littered with inefficient overhyped guards and undersized centers masquerading as forwards. I have a lot more hope for Cade becouse he at least understands basketball. No one close to Franz in terms of size, skill and basketball iq.

[basketballRob]

Franz has even improved over the last 5 games. He's starting to take more 3-point attempts. Franz only averages 4.7 attempts on the year. Once he gets that up over 8, he'll be averaging around 25 ppg and his TS will increase.

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[Duke4life831]

Tier 1
Wagner
Tier 2
Mobley, Cunningham
Tier 3
Barnes, Giddey, Green, Sengun, Murphy, Suggs

VERY few, if any, GM’s would prefer Wagner over Cunningham unless they were looking for a specific positional starter. Before he got injured, Cade was averaging 21.3, 5.7 and 5.9 and registered nearly 3 or 4 triple doubles in the first 10 games. With a four game stretch against Milwaukee, Golden State, Washington and Atlanta where he put up:

23 points - 10 rebounds - 9 assists
35 points - 9 rebounds - 8 assists
27 points - 7 rebounds - 7 assists
26 points - 8 rebounds - 6 assists

Recency bias causes people to forget just how good Cade was playing this year prior to his shin injury. But that injury aside, he is Tier 1 position 1 with Barnes right on his heels. The league is littered with players like Franz who score 20 but don’t offer much in terms of game facilitation, creation, assists or rebounds.

But youre literally not describing Franz at all. I was not a big Franz fan coming out of college and wasnt that big of one last year either. Ive watched every ORL game this year and I will admit I was completely wrong with him. The dude is unbelievably versatile. Versatility is probably his biggest strength.

He was dishing out 4.5 assists a game until Fultz came back. Long term I hope the Magic plan to use him as their secondary ball handler because that's what his skill set is. He basically is Brandon Ingram without the injury concerns and further along defensively.

Now I wouldnt have Franz on a tier all by himself, but he has no doubt played himself into the territory of him being talked about going #1 in a redraft isnt crazy at all.

[formula 400]

And if both of you were GM's youd be fired in 2 seasons.

lol, what happens first? paolo leaves or the magic gm gets fired?

Well we know the Bulls GM should be fired for giving Orlando two lottery picks for Vuc lol

orlando is a farm town with a farm team for big city teams like my bulls or your lakers

[zaymon]

lol, what happens first? paolo leaves or the magic gm gets fired?

Well we know the Bulls GM should be fired for giving Orlando two lottery picks for Vuc lol

orlando is a farm town with a farm team for big city teams like my bulls or your lakers

We are farming Bamba and Fultz for you guys right now. Give us notice when you have any young player worth anything or available lightly protected first round pick. Thanks !

[KokoKaizer]

Can we all stop the homerism in this thread ?

Just enjoy the Soph from every team...

[tooler]

Shockingly good analysis of Franz for anyone who is curious. Strengths, limitations, and his future. This guy gets it, and I don’t just say this because he thinks he’ll be a superstar or he’d take him #1 in a redraft (he doesn’t and he wouldn’t). He has a smart neutral opinion that I happen to agree with.

I think next time Franz comes up in this thread, I’ll just post this video instead of typing out a response!

Watch on YouTube

[Statlanta]

Last year people were putting Mobley on the KG/Tim Duncan stratosphere of comparisons. Jaren Jackson Jr. should not be a sleight against him but more a realistic goal to attain

[76ciology]

Last year people were putting Mobley on the KG/Tim Duncan stratosphere of comparisons. Jaren Jackson Jr. should not be a sleight against him but more a realistic goal to attain

Next year, more athletic Kyle Anderson.

Dont take it seriously.

[TheLand13]

Recency bias causes people to forget just how good Cade was playing this year prior to his shin injury. But that injury aside, he is Tier 1 position 1 with Barnes right on his heels. The league is littered with players like Franz who score 20 but don’t offer much in terms of game facilitation, creation, assists or rebounds.

What is it that Barnes does so well compared to Franz to be on Mobley’s heels? As opposed to Franz who’s skill set is a dime a dozen???

IMO it’s only Cade/Mobley you could argue above him.

If you look at analytics, Franz is in a tier level above Cade and Mobley. We can speculate that they could be better one day but they aren't currently on his level. Analytics say Franz is a better defender than Mobley.

Look at Raptor, War, and EPM.

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He's not a better defender than Mobley.

And analytics are not your friend when it comes to evaluating someone's defensive impact.

[OrlMagic05]

lol, what happens first? paolo leaves or the magic gm gets fired?

Well we know the Bulls GM should be fired for giving Orlando two lottery picks for Vuc lol

orlando is a farm town with a farm team for big city teams like my bulls or your lakers

It's ok, dont be mad y'all got fleeced lol. Even Vuc wants leave "your bulls" and come back to orlando lol

https://www.si.com/nba/magic/news/chicago-bulls-nikola-vucevic-would-love-to-return-to-orlando-magic

[Clay Davis]

This is a deep draft. Not sure why any particular fanbase is using any particular year to argue for their player being the best (Raps fans included). Scottie was apparently the best last year (but it was close), now Franz looks the best, and who'll look like the best next year? Could be Franz. Could be Cade. Could even be Sengun. I think eventually Mobley will have his year (big men take longer to develop).