RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[Jcool0]

Think it's close to a wash, I dont think you can confidently say Suns were better. Scottie pippen was better than anybody Charles had beside him, Horace Grant was all defensive 2nd team, BJ Armstrong had a great finals and was all star the next year.

Chicago was coming off back to back championships, taking it easy in the regular season is expected for teams like that so the fact that Phoenix had a better record doesn't say much. Their ppg was also influenced by a relatively high pace (and Chicago's was slow). Offensive rating Suns had was 113.3, but Bulls were right behind them at 112.9.

Bulls won the championship so they were the "better team". But for the year the Suns were better. They did take Chicago to almost 7 games with Jordan averaging 40 pgg.

Regular season means nothing lmao

LeBron won 66 games by himself lmao

Checks note... Yes... Ilgauskas was a 2x All Star, Mo Williams was an All Star & Varejao was an all defensive player. But yes he did it all by himself....

[wade44]

This barely puts a dent in the ground he has to make up to catch MJ

[lambchop]

Michael won a gold as the best player on an armature winning team. Lebron never did that.

Watch on YouTube

Have to agree with this. MJ still won on an amateur roster.

Olympic golds matter. But we can't forget that the 2004 Olympic team struggled with LBJ. It wasn't until Kobe joined in 2008 where Team USA turned into a forever super team.

In the end, USA basketball is still miles ahead of other countries, to the point where there's no excuse of getting no gold.

I agree that the Bronze medal taints LBJs Olympic legacy. That said, it's still funny to me that the team had prime Tim Duncan who many consider one of the NBA's greatest winners, yet he gets no blame at all, meanwhile lebron averaged 11 minutes per game on that squad, but is still considered the face of that team, even in hindsight.

[LaLover11]

Bulls won the championship so they were the "better team". But for the year the Suns were better. They did take Chicago to almost 7 games with Jordan averaging 40 pgg.

Regular season means nothing lmao

LeBron won 66 games by himself lmao

Checks note... Yes... Ilgauskas was a 2x All Star, Mo Williams was an All Star & Varejao was an all defensive player. But yes he did it all by himself....

Cool let's trade those three players and now give LeBron

Rodman
Pippen
Kukoc

Sounds fair

Let's also trade Mike Brown for Phil Jackson

Checks notes... LeBron wins

[tsherkin]

I agree that the Bronze medal taints LBJs Olympic legacy. That said, it's still funny to me that the team had prime Tim Duncan who many consider one of the NBA's greatest winners, yet he gets no blame at all, meanwhile lebron averaged 11 minutes per game on that squad, but is still considered the face of that team, even in hindsight.

That's primarily because people don't author cogent anti-Lebron arguments much of the time. It's typically quite agenda-driven in one fashion or another, and adding context ruins their attempt to disparage him. It's perfectly fine not to think of Lebron as the GOAT, because the definition of what that represents is so varied from person to person, but the way people try to attack and diminish LBJ is just so sad.

[scrabbarista]

Michael won a gold as the best player on an amateur winning team. Lebron never did that.

Watch on YouTube

Ach, that dunk at 2:00. My reaction is about the same as the announcers when he watches the replay. Just visceral pleasure at the grace and power.

[Mean_Streets]

Michael won a gold as the best player on an amateur winning team. Lebron never did that.

Watch on YouTube

They beat Spain in the Gold Medal game, this was their roster.

Fernando Romay
Juan San Epifanio
Ignacio Solozábal
José López
José Margall
Fernando Martín Espina
Juan de la Cruz
Andrés Jiménez
José Llorente
Fernando Arcega
José Beirán
Juan Corbalán

Does anybody know who these guys are? Makes the 2008 Spain team look like the Dream Team.

[Jcool0]

Regular season means nothing lmao

LeBron won 66 games by himself lmao

Checks note... Yes... Ilgauskas was a 2x All Star, Mo Williams was an All Star & Varejao was an all defensive player. But yes he did it all by himself....

Cool let's trade those three players and now give LeBron

Rodman
Pippen
Kukoc

Sounds fair

Let's also trade Mike Brown for Phil Jackson

Checks notes... LeBron wins

[LaLover11]

Michael won a gold as the best player on an amateur winning team. Lebron never did that.

Watch on YouTube

They beat Spain in the Gold Medal game, this was their roster.

Fernando Romay
Juan San Epifanio
Ignacio Solozábal
José López
José Margall
Fernando Martín Espina
Juan de la Cruz
Andrés Jiménez
José Llorente
Fernando Arcega
José Beirán
Juan Corbalán

Does anybody know who these guys are? Makes the 2008 Spain team look like the Dream Team.

A few of those men are my uncles and friends from Spain lmao

[bledredwine]

Watch on YouTube

Agree with this guy? Yes or No? I think he is 100% right here.


Now I've heard it all. Lebron fans are beyond insane. And yes at this point Nick Wright is just a Lebron fan not a serious journalist.

They need anything to make the case, literally anything.

This is Nick Wright in desperation, because he knows that Lebron is his career’s focal point. When this is done, he’ll have to find a new reason to exist.

[walk with me]

How many bronze medals does Jordan have?

[Quattro]

The Olympics matter but are such a miniscule part of the GOAT argument. They shouldn't change anyone's opinion on who the GOAT is. Both sides do keep fishing though.

Yeah I agree but also winning with a Superteam the whole 90's with the best Point Forward Defender of all time doesn't really show greatness, especially while having the Greatest coach of all time

Farcical. They were only a "super team" because he was on it. I'm not gonna bother listening to whatever stupid hot take Wright is vomiting today but last I checked Jordan has two gold medals to his name too and one of them was with college players so throw out the "he had no competition" nonsense too.

[Mean_Streets]

Watch on YouTube

;t

Jason Timpf now has LeBron as the GOAT

[LaLover11]

The Olympics matter but are such a miniscule part of the GOAT argument. They shouldn't change anyone's opinion on who the GOAT is. Both sides do keep fishing though.

Yeah I agree but also winning with a Superteam the whole 90's with the best Point Forward Defender of all time doesn't really show greatness, especially while having the Greatest coach of all time

Farcical. They were only a "super team" because he was on it. I'm not gonna bother listening to whatever stupid hot take Wright is vomiting today but last I checked Jordan has two gold medals to his name too and one of them was with college players so throw out the "he had no competition" nonsense too.

Let's just keep it real and I hope you agree.

Switch Barkley in 93 with MJ and the Barkley/Pippen/Phil Jackson Bulls would have beat MJ and the Suns

[Quattro]

Yeah I agree but also winning with a Superteam the whole 90's with the best Point Forward Defender of all time doesn't really show greatness, especially while having the Greatest coach of all time

Farcical. They were only a "super team" because he was on it. I'm not gonna bother listening to whatever stupid hot take Wright is vomiting today but last I checked Jordan has two gold medals to his name too and one of them was with college players so throw out the "he had no competition" nonsense too.

Let's just keep it real and I hope you agree.

Switch Barkley in 93 with MJ and the Barkley/Pippen/Phil Jackson Bulls would have beat MJ and the Suns

You speak this like it is fact....or somehow relevant to, well, anything

[LaLover11]

Farcical. They were only a "super team" because he was on it. I'm not gonna bother listening to whatever stupid hot take Wright is vomiting today but last I checked Jordan has two gold medals to his name too and one of them was with college players so throw out the "he had no competition" nonsense too.

Let's just keep it real and I hope you agree.

Switch Barkley in 93 with MJ and the Barkley/Pippen/Phil Jackson Bulls would have beat MJ and the Suns

You speak this like it is fact....or somehow relevant to, well, anything

Are you saying MJ with that suns Team is beating Prime Barkley, Pippen, Grant etc and Jackson as coach?

There's no way

[Stannis]

I agree that the Bronze medal taints LBJs Olympic legacy. That said, it's still funny to me that the team had prime Tim Duncan who many consider one of the NBA's greatest winners, yet he gets no blame at all, meanwhile lebron averaged 11 minutes per game on that squad, but is still considered the face of that team, even in hindsight.

I think Tim Duncan is fairly ranked on GOAT lists, meaning people "priced in" his failures on Team USA and elsewhere.

If 2004 was just a one-off loss, I think LBJ would have gotten a pass. For me, I don't blame LBJ in 2004. But it was also followed by a poor 2006 FIBA performance.

Disclosure: I rank LBJ higher than Duncan in the GOAT list. So I guess that's why I don't "blame" Tim Duncan. I mean, I still do. But I think it's already priced in his ranking in the GOAT list.

[tsherkin]

Let's just keep it real and I hope you agree.

Switch Barkley in 93 with MJ and the Barkley/Pippen/Phil Jackson Bulls would have beat MJ and the Suns

You speak this like it is fact....or somehow relevant to, well, anything

Are you saying MJ with that suns Team is beating Prime Barkley, Pippen, Grant etc and Jackson as coach?

There's no way

Yeah, Jordan on those Suns would probably beat Chicago with Barkley in his place, I'd imagine.

[Jcool0]

Watch on YouTube

;t

Jason Timpf now has LeBron as the GOAT

[Johnny Bball]

There is no point that Lebron James is going to become better than Jordan. That ship sailed a long time ago. It's over.

Yet, some people still need to try and validate their hero. And so many are Lakers fans that previously had less respect for him.