MVP Rankings 1.0

[Benedict_Boozer]

Thank you for answering honestly. And I agree. If LeBron doesnt end the season with at least the 3rd best record (or at least better than the Lakers), then we both agree LeBron wont win it. With that being said, I think its very unlikely the Cavs finish better than Magic/Celtics/Lakers. I just dont see it happening.

The only way it happens is if CLE gets a lucky trade or injuries hit BOS/LA (it happened last year, def possible). I think CLE can ultimately catch ORL, our schedule the 2nd half of the season post AS break is cupcake city, we will make up some ground there for sure. BOS might actually finish ahead of LA in the standings IMO.

[laronprofit9]

I say Lebron is more important to the Cavs, than Kobe is to the Lakers.

But the difference in importance isn't a huge gap.

Kobe makes the entire Laker team better because of his presence. He faces by far the toughest defensive coverage out of any other player on his team. Watch a few of Gasol's buckets in last night's game. He got several wide open jumpers as a result of Kobe taking attention away from him.

Anyone who says Gasol is more important than Kobe is a biased homer who doesn't want Kobe to win the MVP. If Kobe got the same kind of looks Gasol would get every game, his fg% would probably be 52 to 54%. He would be getting a lot of easy dunks, layups, and open jumpshots. Kobe rarely gets that if at all during a game. I can count several times a game where Gasol gets those opportunities.

The Lakers would struggle to keep a 7th or 8th seed in the west without Kobe, and definitely a 1st round knock out.

Im not denying Lebron is more important to his team, but Kobe is no slouch in this department either.

[Dat Pass]

Thank you for answering honestly. And I agree. If LeBron doesnt end the season with at least the 3rd best record (or at least better than the Lakers), then we both agree LeBron wont win it. With that being said, I think its very unlikely the Cavs finish better than Magic/Celtics/Lakers. I just dont see it happening.

The only way it happens is if CLE gets a lucky trade or injuries hit BOS/LA (it happened last year, def possible). I think CLE can ultimately catch ORL, our schedule the 2nd half of the season post AS break is cupcake city, we will make up some ground there for sure. BOS might actually finish ahead of LA in the standings IMO.

I agree that their schedule lightens up towards the end, but in order for the Cavs to even win 59 games they can only lose 16 more games.

They still have: @Mavs, @Suns, @Lakers, @Hawks, Hawks, Rockets, @Nuggets, @Blazers, @Jazz, Lakers, @Heat, Magic, Nuggets, @Magic, Spurs, Celtics, @Spurs, Hawks, @Celtics, Magic and @Hawks.

Thats 21 difficult games. Not to mention the Cavs have lost 5 to below .500 teams already. So, even for the Cavs to win 59 will be a bit of a challenge.

[tracey_nice]

I love Pau but did someone try to say he is the best PF in the League? Bosh, Dirk?

[NOOB77]

If Melo leads the league in scoring and the Nuggets are a 2 seed and around 60 wins he will be in the conversation. Don't know if he will win but he will be top 3 in voting.

[JimMurray]

Do you really think Nash is that much ahead of Dirk? Dirk and Nash have similar records, but Dirk has been a BEAST in the clutch and all season actually. This is probably the best season of his career. His defense also has seen vast improvements as evident by his defensive win shares and defensive rating.

Too be honest? No. I haven't paid much attention to Dirk...but he's quietly in this thing.

[JimMurray]

It really comes down to who has the best record, and we won't know who's likely to have the best record until LA has some road trips!

If the Cavs have a better record than the Lakers at seasons end, I'll gladly say Lebron is MVP

+1

[JimMurray]

Pau: I want more shots, look at my field goal %!
Kobe: I'm only giving you 5 shots per game, so if you want any more than that then GO FETCH!

Yep....thats exactly what he said.

[JimMurray]

You do realize Kobe's career high in FG% is 46.8?

He's also a guard...so it stands to reason that he would have a lower FG%. Whats your point?

[JimMurray]

So who gets credit for Kobe's growth as a player? Kobe's own hard work or simply Shaq's leadership?

Yep... I don't know if you remember but Pau Gasol was 0-12 in the playoffs before playing with Kobe. OH AND TWELVE...couldn't even win ONE GAME.

It couldn't just be that Gasol and Bynum got better primarily because of their own hard work just like Kobe did when he was Shaq's teammate, could it? How was throwing Bynum under the bus a couple of years ago a sign of Kobe's leadership?

You can spin that anyway you want...the fact is, they are both better players when Kobe is on the court.

[JimMurray]

I don't get why everyone assumes the Lakers would easily make the playoffs if Kobe wasn't on the team.

You need to have around 50 wins just to be the 8th seed in the western conference.

07-08 the 8th seed Denver Nuggets 50-32
08-09 the 8th seed Utah Jazz 48-34

They would be battling for a playoff spot right now without Kobe. Without Kobe, we'd also have the worst back court in the NBA. Fisher and Brown, Fisher and Vujacic, Fisher and Farmar? LOL

The Lakers without Kobe would be a 7th or 8th seed and wold probably get knocked out in the 1st round.

If Kobe wasn't on the team, the Lakers would be a 4 or 5 seed and bounced in the first round. I reference Pau's resume as my evidence.

[JimMurray]

Well I think the Cavs are going to need a top 3 record. If they finish behind the Lakers, Celtics, and Magic, i dont like his chances no matter how amazing he plays the rest of the year. Voters look at wins a lot.

In order to beat Kobe, he's going to need a record equal or greater than the Lakers. Especially considering how Brutal the middle of the Schedule is for the Lakers.

[JimMurray]

The perception around the media IS that LeBron's significantly more valuable to his team than Kobe is. And that perception is pretty close to fact.

Bullsh**

Cleveland is still viewed as a team with LeBron + a bunch of role players.

Wrong again....that might be the perception on RealGM where somehow all the Lebron fans have infiltrated the boards to spread the Gospel of how horrible their players are. The fact of the matter is you don't win 66 games in the NBA without significant help...I don't care if your Lebron, Jordan, Kobe, Wade...whoever. We know the Cavs supporting cast was sufficient to win 66 games last season, and we also know they got better in the off-season.

LA definitely isn't. They're consdered one of the most talented teams in the league. Thus, it's not that important for LeBron to carry Cleveland to as impressive a record as LA's in order to win MVP.

You don't disqualify somebody from the MVP race because he plays with other good players. Thats ridiculous. If that's the case, give the MVP to NASH right now, because he's currently the Best player with the worst supporting cast on a contending team. Yes...it is VITAL that Lebron carry Cleveland to an equal record as LA because he plays in a vastly weaker conference, at the end of the season will have a much weaker schedule, and is playing with the same team who did it last year that got significantly better in the off-season.

He could be somewhat close(around 5 games) and continue his league-best production and that should do the trick.

Bullsh**...if he finishes 5 games out, he doesn't win...period. He doesn't even garner consideration unless he's within 2-3 games, and he doesn't win unless he's equal or greater to the Lakers at the end of the season.

Trailing Boston or Orlando in the standings won't matter much either. Neither team has a serious MVP candidate to take votes away from LeBron.

Truth.

Trailing Denver on the other hand can hurt, because Melo is a legitimate MVP candiate. And the media LOVES giving the award to someone who hasn't won it yet(2008 Kobe, for instance).

Truth...if the Lakers don't finish with the top seed out West...Kobe can't be MVP.

[JimMurray]

It's called following the league and getting a pulse of how people feel about certain players and their teams.

Funny...I follow the same league you do and get the opposite impression. The fact of the matter is, if you needed to win one game to save your life...and you could pick one player in the NBA to lead that team...most people are taking Kobe.

If you honestly think the perception of LeBron being a lot more valuable to Cleveland than Kobe to LA is untrue, then what rock have you been living under?

One that isn't blinded by the birth of the advanced basketball metrics era of basketball that has deeply skewed unintelligent fans perceptions of players in the NBA.

Also, if you don't think Cleveland is considered A LOT Less talented than LA, then again, where the **** have you been? This is obvious when you listen to any opposing commentator, media member or heck, even opposing fans.

Who is arguing this that Cleveland is more talented then L.A.?

[INKtastic]

It couldn't just be that Gasol and Bynum got better primarily because of their own hard work just like Kobe did when he was Shaq's teammate, could it? How was throwing Bynum under the bus a couple of years ago a sign of Kobe's leadership?

You can spin that anyway you want...the fact is, they are both better players when Kobe is on the court.

where are the stats to back that up?

[JimMurray]

I say Lebron is more important to the Cavs, than Kobe is to the Lakers.

But the difference in importance isn't a huge gap.

If there is a difference it's negligible. If the Cavs lose Lebron, they'll finish with the 4-8 seed. If the Lakers lose Kobe, they'll finish with the 4-5 seed. Neither team will win the Title so what's the difference?

Anyone who says Gasol is more important than Kobe is a biased homer who doesn't want Kobe to win the MVP. If Kobe got the same kind of looks Gasol would get every game, his fg% would probably be 52 to 54%. He would be getting a lot of easy dunks, layups, and open jumpshots. Kobe rarely gets that if at all during a game. I can count several times a game where Gasol gets those opportunities.

Anyone who says this and actually believes it should be taken to a quiet meadow and surgically castrated to ensure that they never breed.

[JimMurray]

I love Pau but did someone try to say he is the best PF in the League? Bosh, Dirk?

Somehow...whenever you ask Lebron fans, Pau becomes the best PF in the league, Bynum is the best Center in the league, D-Fish is 7 years younger, and Artest is the DPOY, and it all adds up to point out that the only reason Kobe is good is because of them.....it's magic. I'll be sure to have some conversations with them whenever we play the Celtics.

[JimMurray]

If Melo leads the league in scoring and the Nuggets are a 2 seed and around 60 wins he will be in the conversation. Don't know if he will win but he will be top 3 in voting.

He's in the conversation now...he's already in the top three.

[JimMurray]

where are the stats to back that up?

Look them up. Seek and you shall find....

[Dat Pass]

I love Pau but did someone try to say he is the best PF in the League? Bosh, Dirk?

Somehow...whenever you ask Lebron fans, Pau becomes the best PF in the league, Bynum is the best Center in the league, D-Fish is 7 years younger, and Artest is the DPOY, and it all adds up to point out that the only reason Kobe is good is because of them.....it's magic. I'll be sure to have some conversations with them whenever we play the Celtics.

So true. And LeBrons teammates are the equivalent of a D-League team.

Its pathetic the lengths they will go to hype up LeBron. He's a great player, arguably the best in the league, why do you have to try and make Kobe look bad by pimping up his teammates WAY beyond waht they deserve? And why cant LeBron fanboys admit their team has a lot of talent?