2017 Isaiah Thomas is better than any version of Iverson.

[chrismikayla]

LOL. OP unfortunately the problem with threads like this is it gets thrown back in your face if the player struggles like IT is now.

[Baski]

Iverson has never played with this much shooting, depth, and overall talent either....he'd still get smushed by Lebron...but it wouldn't be this bad...

What talent? A bunch of inconsistent shooters who can't hit wide open 3's?? At least Iverson had tough guys like Hill, Ratliff, Lynch, McKie who could provide some defensive muscle. Guys like Zeller/Jackson/Mickey/Young/Jerebko are unplayable and that's a third of the team. If Iverson was in this era, his teams would be constructed very differently too.

Why are you bringing up defensive muscle? This comparison is largely about offense. Iverson played with complete trash offensively, Horford alone would have been the best offensive teammate AI ever played with on the Sixers

I think it's because basketball is played on both sides of the ball. I think it's ok to say that AI carried that team offensively, but it's silly to think that their defense wasn't a massive part of their success.
They weren't winning games solely because AI was chucking like 30 FGA per game at 40%FG%. At some point the defense came in and made up for a lot of bad shooting nights from the league MVP. If you want to mention IT's offensively superior teammates i don't see how you can leave out AI's defensively superior teammates.

[Illmatic12]

What talent? A bunch of inconsistent shooters who can't hit wide open 3's?? At least Iverson had tough guys like Hill, Ratliff, Lynch, McKie who could provide some defensive muscle. Guys like Zeller/Jackson/Mickey/Young/Jerebko are unplayable and that's a third of the team. If Iverson was in this era, his teams would be constructed very differently too.

Why are you bringing up defensive muscle? This comparison is largely about offense. Iverson played with complete trash offensively, Horford alone would have been the best offensive teammate AI ever played with on the Sixers

I think it's because basketball is played on both sides of the ball. I think it's ok to say that AI carried that team offensively, but it's silly to think that their defense wasn't a massive part of their success.
They weren't winning games solely because AI was chucking like 30 FGA per game at 40%FG%. At some point the defense came in and made up for a lot of bad shooting nights from the league MVP. If you want to mention IT's offensively superior teammates i don't see how you can leave out AI's defensively superior teammates.

Winning games? The arguments in this thread were never about winning games. It's been strictly a statistical comparison of Thomas to Iverson's offensive numbers, and claiming Thomas's ppg TS% etc without considering the context in which they put up those offensive numbers.

Considering the context of his team and the league he's playing in, it's easier for Thomas to put up his offensive numbers than it was for Iverson to do what he did.

[Braggins]

Iverson is clearly better imo, but IT has earned the right to be brought up whenever talking about the best little guys in league history. Hes not as good as a lot of the slightly less little guys (Nash, og IT, Iverson, Tiny Archibald, CP3, etc), but hes arguably the best of the super tiny guys and being an all-star at his size is super impressive regardless. I think IT is decently overrated tbh. I don't have him top 5 at his position because being that bad at defense is a big deal even for a PG, but hes definitely one of the best offensive players in the league.

[LascelleL]

I have the Answer to your question.

Put some **** respeck on Allen Iverson's name.

[cdouglas]

No, Iverson in this era with the current rules would be on another level. Remember he played in a slow paced era with hand checking and 7 foot shot blockers lurking in the paint.

No comparison, Iverson was a David to Goliah player. NO FEAR!!!

[Baski]

Why are you bringing up defensive muscle? This comparison is largely about offense. Iverson played with complete trash offensively, Horford alone would have been the best offensive teammate AI ever played with on the Sixers

I think it's because basketball is played on both sides of the ball. I think it's ok to say that AI carried that team offensively, but it's silly to think that their defense wasn't a massive part of their success.
They weren't winning games solely because AI was chucking like 30 FGA per game at 40%FG%. At some point the defense came in and made up for a lot of bad shooting nights from the league MVP. If you want to mention IT's offensively superior teammates i don't see how you can leave out AI's defensively superior teammates.

Winning games? The arguments in this thread were never about winning games. It's been strictly a statistical comparison of Thomas to Iverson's offensive numbers, and claiming Thomas's ppg TS% etc without considering the context in which they put up those offensive numbers.

Considering the context of his team and the league he's playing in, it's easier for Thomas to put up his offensive numbers than it was for Iverson to do what he did.

So you're saying that AI would still be looked at as favorably as he is now if he played exactly the way he did and his team didn't make the playoffs? His offensive numbers would look good to you? A 42%FG% 52%TS( which regressed in the playoffs to 48%) high volume scorer would impress you if his team went nowhere?
What I'm getting at with this question is that no matter how we want to slice it, AI's efficiency numbers were less than stellar, even compared to his peers at the time, and would largely go unappreciated if not for his team success, which you cannot exclude his teammates from.
His numbers would surely be better if he played today, but his numbers back then show he would not approach IT's efficiency.

[SelfishPlayer]

Boston won its first game against the Cavs when Isaiah Thomas' injury prevented him from continuing in the playoff series. No one can ever say that an Allen Iverson lead team was better off without him...

[mszymko]

Just heard on ESPN2 that IT is the worst statistical defensive player in the league, the speaker repeated it with the disclaimer that he was not attempting to be facetious.

[SmoothCriminal]

Boston won its first game against the Cavs when Isaiah Thomas' injury prevented him from continuing in the playoff series. No one can ever say that an Allen Iverson lead team was better off without him...

Aaron Mckie and Eric Snow would have dropped 40 each on the Cavs

[OkcSinceSGA]

LOL. OP unfortunately the problem with threads like this is it gets thrown back in your face if the player struggles like IT is now.

Which is why I'm letting it cool down. Already specified 14 times it was regular season comparison (considering I made this like 1 game into round 2 of the playoffs). I also made it clear I wasn't comparing careers or legacy, but rather one regular season. It's sad to watch it turn into something else entirely by literally EVERYBODY calling me out.

Yesterday I had a huge response lined up with data showing how Iverson had literally only 3 really good games in the 2001 playoffs, and got slaughtered every series besides Indiana by his counter part (Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Kobe), but then realized it would fall on deaf ears. People don't seem to want to look at the totality of a season. They'd rather say "told ya so" about a completely different criteria based on a small sample.

[magicman1978]

Yesterday I had a huge response lined up with data showing how Iverson had literally only 3 really good games in the 2001 playoffs, and got slaughtered every series besides Indiana by his counter part (Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Kobe), but then realized it would fall on deaf ears.

Well, Iverson didn't guard the SG position. He's too small to effectively defend those guys.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Yesterday I had a huge response lined up with data showing how Iverson had literally only 3 really good games in the 2001 playoffs, and got slaughtered every series besides Indiana by his counter part (Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Kobe), but then realized it would fall on deaf ears.

Well, Iverson didn't guard the SG position. He's too small to effectively defend those guys.

Yes, he often didn't. I mean outplayed. Not necessarily H2h possessions. He wasn't even the best player in any given series that year besides Indiana maybe.

[joeyAdaMan]

LOL. OP unfortunately the problem with threads like this is it gets thrown back in your face if the player struggles like IT is now.

Which is why I'm letting it cool down. Already specified 14 times it was regular season comparison (considering I made this like 1 game into round 2 of the playoffs). I also made it clear I wasn't comparing careers or legacy, but rather one regular season. It's sad to watch it turn into something else entirely by literally EVERYBODY calling me out.

Yesterday I had a huge response lined up with data showing how Iverson had literally only 3 really good games in the 2001 playoffs, and got slaughtered every series besides Indiana by his counter part (Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Kobe), but then realized it would fall on deaf ears. People don't seem to want to look at the totality of a season. They'd rather say "told ya so" about a completely different criteria based on a small sample.

you still have yet to acknowledge how poor AI's teammates were offensively, which undoubtedly had an effect on the quality of shots he could get....they were ALL-TIME bad in that regard...not just bad for the era or bad for that weak East....we'll never see a team that weak overall offensively make it that far again...Ray Allen had two other 20 ppg scorers around him....Kobe is both clearly better than AI and he had a guy named Shaq....Vince Carter's Raptor teams weren't good, but there is no way they were worse offensively than the 76ers

[magicman1978]

Yes, he often didn't. I mean outplayed. Not necessarily H2h possessions. He wasn't even the best player in any given series that year besides Indiana maybe.

Thomas wouldn't have been the best player either, so that's a moot point. Also, JoeyAdaMan is right. Iverson had no spacing that series and he was the only one who could create. Over the course of 23 games, he teammates hit a total of 40 threes, with McKee having 27 of them. What's even worse is, they couldn't even hit jumpshots. The entire opposing defense would focus on iverson and try to the other guys beat them.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Yes, he often didn't. I mean outplayed. Not necessarily H2h possessions. He wasn't even the best player in any given series that year besides Indiana maybe.

Thomas wouldn't have been the best player either, so that's a moot point. Also, JoeyAdaMan is right. Iverson had no spacing that series and he was the only one who could create. Over the course of 23 games, he teammates hit a total of 40 threes, with McKee having 27 of them. What's even worse is, they couldn't even hit jumpshots. The entire opposing defense would focus on iverson and try to the other guys beat them.

I won't argue that poor spacing hurt his efficiency. I've acknowledged his efficiency would go up a bit now. But we do differ in our assessment of Iverson's supporting cast. Outside of arguably Milwaukee it was the best in the entire east. Tmac and Vince had much worse casts. They boasted an elite defense, DPOY, 6th man of year and very solid 10 man depth.

[HotRocks34]

I think things have fairly well sorted themselves out on this topic in recent games.

I like Isaiah, but he's no Iverson.

[SimonFish]

this thread made 37 pages

[TheGOATRises007]

Delete this thread.

Massive fail.

[Nazrmohamed]

Different eras, different rules


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Yes but: Iverson chose to settle for crappy shots.

It was harder to score as a hobbit back then...which was why Iverson would have been better had he shot more wisely.

There are still guys today who can't seem to figure what a good shot is. Westbrook is one of them, though he's way smarter at it than Iverson.

The cleverness of Isaiah's shooting is drastically superior to anything we saw from AI.


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