2018 MVP Discussion Pt III

[Shock Defeat]

Winning counts when it comes to MVP, it always has.

The idea that its just an individual stats award is stupid.

Last year was an aberration and should not become the norm.

I disagree a little bit. In this day and age of basketball when everybody just is in an arms race to have 3 + 4 All Stars on each team, I think team success has gotten a little overrated. There has been formed powerhouses since the Celtics, Heat, Cavs, Warriors, Rockets and Thunder that sort of waters down that notion of best player on best team like never before.

I think now more than ever it should revert back more to the 'who is actually the best player' and not 'who is the best player on the best team' since team stats have been skewed in this Superteam era. It gives guys who are really really really good like Anthony Davis and Damian Lillard a chance for recognition they deserve and is not just mostly handed to the best player picked from one of the top 4 superteams.

For example, if you put another All-Star on the Blazers roster right now and they become a 60 win team. Everybody would probably vote Lillard as the MVP just because of team record. He will still be the same Lillard as he currently is, but just because another AllStar came over and helped them win 5-10 more games a year all of a sudden THEN he is allowed to get the recognition for being great??

I agree that team record should be factored in, but weighing heavily on the 'what would this playoff team look like without player X on it' I think needs to be a thing again.

Makes it more impressive that Harden is doing what he is doing with NO ALL STARS on his team besides him.

[LivingLegend]

Winning counts when it comes to MVP, it always has.

The idea that its just an individual stats award is stupid.

Last year was an aberration and should not become the norm.

I disagree a little bit. In this day and age of basketball when everybody just is in an arms race to have 3 + 4 All Stars on each team, I think team success has gotten a little overrated. There has been formed powerhouses since the Celtics, Heat, Cavs, Warriors, Rockets and Thunder that sort of waters down that notion of best player on best team like never before.

I think now more than ever it should revert back more to the 'who is actually the best player' and not 'who is the best player on the best team' since team stats have been skewed in this Superteam era. It gives guys who are really really really good like Anthony Davis and Damian Lillard a chance for recognition they deserve and is not just mostly handed to the best player picked from one of the top 4 superteams.

For example, if you put another All-Star on the Blazers roster right now and they become a 60 win team. Everybody would probably vote Lillard as the MVP just because of team record. He will still be the same Lillard as he currently is, but just because another AllStar came over and helped them win 5-10 more games a year all of a sudden THEN he is allowed to get the recognition for being great??

I agree that team record should be factored in, but weighing heavily on the 'what would this playoff team look like without player X on it' I think needs to be a thing again.

Makes it more impressive that Harden is doing what he is doing with NO ALL STARS on his team besides him.

I mean, CP3 is certainly a All-Star level player and the Rockets have one of, if not the best built rosters in the NBA 1-10 and Im confident if you take Harden off the Rockets they are still a 45 win borderline playoff team. Same cant be said for guys like Davis, Lillard, Giannis and possibly even LeBron this year. Im not knocking Harden in any of this he had a fantastic season--Im just pointing out moving forward into oncoming seasons given the structure of Superteams--overall record should NOT be looked at as the #1 factor. It should be more weighted as the consensus best overall player while also factoring in how much he solely means to his team if you were to take him off it.

For example I love the fact they gave it to Russ last year. He was a man possessed and playing like a top 3 player in the NBA and if you took him off the Thunder, they would be picking top 5 in the draft. They nailed that IMO but what Im saying is it should have taken him a historic feat of averaging a triple double for people to have leaned his way.

Combine the fact that he was a top 3 player in the league last year with the fact that their team would probably only won 23 games without him---then you have a recipe for a deserving MVP.

[BallerTalk]

Apparently Kobe has chimed in:



https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/04/11/kobe-bryant-utah-quin-snyder-coach-year-james-harden-deserves-mvp/509176002/

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I was confused as to which James Kobe was referring to for a bit. It's probably not a good idea to say you think James should win MVP, when the debate is between Lebron James and James Harden. Maybe the full article makes it clearer.

[MaxRider]

I was confused as to which James Kobe was referring to for a bit. It's probably not a good idea to say you think James should win MVP, when the debate is between Lebron James and James Harden. Maybe the full article makes it clearer.

pretty obvious it's James Harden
people called LeBron James, LeBron or King James

[BallerTalk]

Some more writers voting for for LeBron

Spoiler:

https://theathletic.com/309906/2018/04/11/lloyd-im-voting-for-lebron-james-for-mvp/
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nba-awards-lebron-james-easily-mvp-james-harden-article-1.3927651
http://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nba/cavaliers/why-lebron-james-deserves-the-2018-nba-mvp-award-more-than-james-harden/95-537303388

Spoiler:

Interesting reads.
One guy basically says Lebron deserves it for his outstanding career. Essentially treating it as a lifetime achievement award.
Another guy who seems a bit underinformed (citing Lebron's defense???) but determined to create a reason to vote Lebron.
And lastly a local Cleveland guy who wishes there was a way Lebron could win while acknowledging Harden as the likely MVP.

Perhaps most notable is that NONE of those individuals had a vote last season and only one of them suggests he might actually have a vote this year.

Ultimately it all reveals nothing we didn't already know.

Harden probably won't be a unanimous MVP, but anything less than a landslide will still be a shocker.

Tracking the votes as they are made public it looks like a landslide for certain.
At last count there were 30 first place votes for Harden to 5 votes for Lebron.

Perhaps most interesting for Rockets fans is even Michelle Beadle voted for Harden. That's really saying something.

[Screwston]

Some more writers voting for for LeBron

Spoiler:

https://theathletic.com/309906/2018/04/11/lloyd-im-voting-for-lebron-james-for-mvp/
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nba-awards-lebron-james-easily-mvp-james-harden-article-1.3927651
http://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nba/cavaliers/why-lebron-james-deserves-the-2018-nba-mvp-award-more-than-james-harden/95-537303388

Spoiler:

Interesting reads.
One guy basically says Lebron deserves it for his outstanding career. Essentially treating it as a lifetime achievement award.
Another guy who seems a bit underinformed (citing Lebron's defense???) but determined to create a reason to vote Lebron.
And lastly a local Cleveland guy who wishes there was a way Lebron could win while acknowledging Harden as the likely MVP.

Perhaps most notable is that NONE of those individuals had a vote last season and only one of them suggests he might actually have a vote this year.

Ultimately it all reveals nothing we didn't already know.

Harden probably won't be a unanimous MVP, but anything less than a landslide will still be a shocker.

Tracking the votes as they are made public it looks like a landslide for certain.
At last count there were 30 first place votes for Harden to 5 votes for Lebron.

Perhaps most interesting for Rockets fans is even Michelle Beadle voted for Harden. That's really saying something.

Can you post that photo of Russ n Harden, the 4th quarter statistics in the playoffs. Ty

[Cubbies2120]

Russ won it last year for triple double reasons. He should win it again for triple double reasons. Wins are a team statistic but the MVP award, like triple double, is an individual thing.

Perhaps Harden and LBJ will learn focus more on what matters most next season.

Unless, of course, we are redefining the MVP award... again.

[XxIronChainzxX]

Apparently Kobe has chimed in:



https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/04/11/kobe-bryant-utah-quin-snyder-coach-year-james-harden-deserves-mvp/509176002/

I'm sure Kobe is getting flashbacks of those days he had to carry Smush Parker to the playoffs.

[XxIronChainzxX]

Russ won it last year for triple double reasons. He should win it again for triple double reasons. Wins are a team statistic but the MVP award, like triple double, is an individual thing.

Perhaps Harden and LBJ will learn focus more on what matters most next season.

Unless, of course, we are redefining the MVP award... again.

Russ won't it for the combination of triple doubles and people thinking his team was so garbage it was a miracle they won close to 50 games. Winning one more game with adding PG is not an MVP case.

[ChartFiction]

Russ won it last year for triple double reasons. He should win it again for triple double reasons. Wins are a team statistic but the MVP award, like triple double, is an individual thing.

Perhaps Harden and LBJ will learn focus more on what matters most next season.

Unless, of course, we are redefining the MVP award... again.

Lebron's already been focusing on padding stats and not winning the entire season.

[BallerTalk]

Spoiler:

Interesting reads.
One guy basically says Lebron deserves it for his outstanding career. Essentially treating it as a lifetime achievement award.
Another guy who seems a bit underinformed (citing Lebron's defense???) but determined to create a reason to vote Lebron.
And lastly a local Cleveland guy who wishes there was a way Lebron could win while acknowledging Harden as the likely MVP.

Perhaps most notable is that NONE of those individuals had a vote last season and only one of them suggests he might actually have a vote this year.

Ultimately it all reveals nothing we didn't already know.

Harden probably won't be a unanimous MVP, but anything less than a landslide will still be a shocker.

Tracking the votes as they are made public it looks like a landslide for certain.
At last count there were 30 first place votes for Harden to 5 votes for Lebron.

Perhaps most interesting for Rockets fans is even Michelle Beadle voted for Harden. That's really saying something.

Can you post that photo of Russ n Harden, the 4th quarter statistics in the playoffs. Ty

I'm not sure which photo you are referring to.

[Screwston]

Tracking the votes as they are made public it looks like a landslide for certain.
At last count there were 30 first place votes for Harden to 5 votes for Lebron.

Perhaps most interesting for Rockets fans is even Michelle Beadle voted for Harden. That's really saying something.

Can you post that photo of Russ n Harden, the 4th quarter statistics in the playoffs. Ty

I'm not sure which photo you are referring to.

I think you've posted it before, its the one that was posted on the scoreboard in Toyota Center.

[BallerTalk]

Can you post that photo of Russ n Harden, the 4th quarter statistics in the playoffs. Ty

I'm not sure which photo you are referring to.

I think you've posted it before, its the one that was posted on the scoreboard in Toyota Center.

I may have but I can't recall it.
The only thing similar to that I can recall at the moment is the Beverley vs Westbrook comparison from last season's playoffs.

[Screwston]

I'm not sure which photo you are referring to.

I think you've posted it before, its the one that was posted on the scoreboard in Toyota Center.

I may have but I can't recall it.
The only thing similar to that I can recall at the moment is the Beverley vs Westbrook comparison from last season's playoffs.

Its the one like that except Harden n WB

[Shar]

Russ won it last year for triple double reasons. He should win it again for triple double reasons. Wins are a team statistic but the MVP award, like triple double, is an individual thing.

Perhaps Harden and LBJ will learn focus more on what matters most next season.

Unless, of course, we are redefining the MVP award... again.

Just because Russell finished the season averaging a triple double again, doesn't mean he should get the MVP. Literally no one started putting him in the MVP convo until he secured that triple double average which came right at the end of the season.

Are people really going to forget how bad he was at the beginning of the season?? He shot under 40% for a good period and Thunder were off to a rocky start. Obviously team wins have always played a role when it comes to who will win the MVP. The only reason why Russ won it as a 6th seed last year was because his narrative was really strong and he was the first to average a triple double in 55 years.

Harden has a much much better case. 30/9/5/2 on 62% TS while leading his team to 65 wins. Like him or not, it's his time to win the award and he deserves it. You can make a case for LeBron all you want, but he hasn't been as consistent as Harden has throughout the whole season. Lets not forget how bad LeBron was in January. He ranked dead last in the league in +/- and Cavs looked like a below-average team. With all that said, the 2018 MVP is James Harden. LeBron will come 2nd, followed by Anthony Davis.

[Cubbies2120]

Russ won it last year for triple double reasons. He should win it again for triple double reasons. Wins are a team statistic but the MVP award, like triple double, is an individual thing.

Perhaps Harden and LBJ will learn focus more on what matters most next season.

Unless, of course, we are redefining the MVP award... again.

Just because Russell finished the season averaging a triple double again, doesn't mean he should get the MVP. Literally no one started putting him in the MVP convo until he secured that triple double average which came right at the end of the season.

Are people really going to forget how bad he was at the beginning of the season?? He shot under 40% for a good period and Thunder were off to a rocky start. Obviously team wins have always played a role when it comes to who will win the MVP. The only reason why Russ won it as a 6th seed last year was because his narrative was really strong and he was the first to average a triple double in 55 years.

Harden has a much much better case. 30/9/5/2 on 62% TS while leading his team to 65 wins. Like him or not, it's his time to win the award and he deserves it. You can make a case for LeBron all you want, but he hasn't been as consistent as Harden has throughout the whole season. Lets not forget how bad LeBron was in January. He ranked dead last in the league in +/- and Cavs looked like a below-average team. With all that said, the 2018 MVP is James Harden. LeBron will come 2nd, followed by Anthony Davis.

Apologies m8. My comment was meant to be sarcastic. I thought Harden should've won it last year as well.

I just hate the fact that media changes the definition of the MVP award based on whatever the meta narrative of the season is.